Is the level of play at a all time high

MuchoBurrito said:
I would say both. There are more good players today.

AND the best players today are better. The game has evolved like every other game over the last 30 years. There is nobody from the 70's who could break with guys like Shane or Ko today. Nobody. And everybody has a huge break today. The game has evolved, nostalgia aside, I would submit that there is no sport / activity that was at a higher level 30 years ago than now. The reality of innovation just renders this next to impossible.
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I don't know about the 70's, but Earl and Busty go back to the 80's and nobody broke the balls better than those guys.

Just because the technology improves and the game evolves doesn't mean the best players are always the players of today.

There is no running back in the NFL today as good as Jim Brown.

There is no wide receiver in the NFL today as good as Jerry Rice.

There is no basketball player in the NBA today as good as Michael Jordan.

There is no hockey player in the NHL today as good as Wayne Gretzky.

And those are sports where strength, speed, and size matter. Being stronger, or faster, or bigger doesn't make you a better pool player.
 
jasonlaus said:
I remember years ago when somebody kicked a ball in - it was amazing!!!
Now we almost expect it. This is one of the biggest indicators that the level of play has increased dramatically.
Jason
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Who's a better kicker today that Efren?
 
Carolina_Giant said:
I would say the level of play worldwide is at an all time high. However, I have some points that concern me when it comes to pool's overall state as well.

1. With Earl all but finished (same for Archer), Morris entering twilight years (but still going very strong), and Deuel beginning to fade, this is leaving the U.S. top player Shane without a consistent rival. We have some solid players up and coming (in particular I feel Woodward and Bergman will be the eventual heirs of Shane in American pool), and I was very impressed with Shuff and Dechaine over the US Open 9 ball. Yet it remains an achilles heel for the US that our players do not always travel oversees very well, and many countries have overtaken the US in quality of pool play.

2. For those old enough to remember, Germany used to field some of the finest players across multiple disciplines with the quartet of Oliver Ortman, Thomas Engart, Ralph Souquet, and Thorston Hohmman. Ortman and Engart are pretty much gone from the pool scene except small events, Souquet and Thorston only have so many years left before they too begin to fade, and it has been a while since a German player made the Mosconi Cup team. I will be very sad if there are few to no German players to take up the mantle of these four giants on the world stage.

edit: ofc the fields are much stronger today...... the reasons are already mentioned above!

3. I love Niels Feijen, and have grown to at least have a deep respect for Nick Vandenberg. However, I do not hear of many players in Holland coming up behind them yet. I have a fear of losing a strong European presence in pool if countries such as Finland, Sweden, Hungary, Holland, and the above mentioned Germany do not have that up and coming talent being identified. That being said, the rise of Albin Ochean and Nikos Economopolus does give me a flare of hope.

4. I see the Filipinos as being in good hands, especially with Orcollo and Corteza proving themselves time and again recently. I'm sorry that Ronnie Alcano was never quite able to break through the ceiling, but with Parica also retiring there are still some large shoes to fill over there. There will always be a strong contingent from the Philippines, but it just feels like a bit of a letdown to go from six superstars to two.
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i wouldnt be too worried about points 2-4, the germans will comeback (filler, ludwig), it takes often a while to fill such big shoes, same for holland, look at bijsterboshs run in kuwait...... overall europe has still lot of talent, look alone to poland, or to greece, they were nowhere few yrs ago and im sure the brits also will still produce topplayers!
same for the phillipines, watch the moneygames there, so much talent over there (ignacio will surely make it on worldstage and raga could be the next huge thing)!
point 1 is a different thing tho, they have shane, the one generation talent and a handful very good players behind him (no world beaters tho), but then? the names are the same for years now, except bergmann, skyler or hall (all no future worldbeaters imo), where is the young talent other than those 3? and theres the secret imo, the average playingfield in euro or asia is much better than in the US, overseas there are dozens of that class! even the middle east countries arent far away (believe it or not)!
take shane away and count the major titles of US players last 10 years (not that i know it, but i doubt u´ll find much), or keep shane in it and count the majors overseas.......aslong as they dont compete with the best overseas and aslong the struktures stay as they are the gap will rise (shame for mosconi, i love tight events and are there really ppl wanting JA in that team? halleluja) and once shane retires it gets very dark over there........(i know i get stoned to death now:thumbup:)!
 
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Did anybody talk about the yardstick we are using? Seems like todays players are witnessed in tourney play, whilst the days of yore were often longer gambling sessions.
Both tough, but admittedly pretty durn different.
 
Thank you. I'm glad my hard work is paying off and people are noticing. Been really working on my game these days.


one stroke said:
I can't remember a time where the level of play has been any higher than it is right now in these big tournaments the play has been rediculasly good and the fields never stronger

1
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:grin:
 
jasonlaus said:
But, the level of play IS higher. Whether old timers would've played better is not the question.

I agree that most of them would've played better today.
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I am not sure if I agree with you. I think there is more exposure now regarding players from other countries. Who knows how guys who never played in the US from the Phillipines and other Asian countries played 30 years ago? They may have been as good then as they are now. We only see the ones who come to the United States or play in some tournament we see streamed.

Whether anyone believes it or not, guys who play at a world class level can play on any equipment. If they make everything center pocket, it doesn't matter how big or small the pockets are.
 
nine_ball6970 said:
I am not sure if I agree with you. I think there is more exposure now regarding players from other countries. Who knows how guys who never played in the US from the Phillipines and other Asian countries played 30 years ago? They may have been as good then as they are now. We only see the ones who come to the United States or play in some tournament we see streamed.

Whether anyone believes it or not, guys who play at a world class level can play on any equipment. If they make everything center pocket, it doesn't matter how big or small the pockets are.
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Tightening the pockets will seperate the players
 
jasonlaus said:
Tightening the pockets will seperate the players
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Not at that level. I have seen Efren and Bustamante run out with ease continuously on gold crowns with 4" pockets well past their primes.

I think it is a hard argument to make that the great shot makers on say 5" pockets from 30 years ago would be unable to make balls and run out as often on tighter tables. We will never know but world class players don't seem to have much of an issue adjusting to speed of table and pocket size.
 
jasonlaus said:
I think alot of top players kick as well or better than Efren - there's just so many of them
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Here you are mistaken. Nobody has ever come close to Efren in this aspect of the game.

Remember, good kicking consists of good kick conceptualization and good kick execution. It is in the former where nobody has ever been in Efren's league (even Pagulayan falls short here). If you are suggesting that some are as proficient in kick execution as Efren, that's a more reasonable suggestion, although I still have to disagree.
 
Poolmanis said:
Kicking levels:
N00b
Beginner
Intermediate
Shortstop
Semi-pro
Pro
Asian
Efren :D
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Good list. I must say though I do believe there is at least one level between intermediate and short stop. don't know what to call it but there are at least a couple levels in general in between there in pool in general.
 
nine_ball6970 said:
Not at that level. I have seen Efren and Bustamante run out with ease continuously on gold crowns with 4" pockets well past their primes.

I think it is a hard argument to make that the great shot makers on say 5" pockets from 30 years ago would be unable to make balls and run out as often on tighter tables. We will never know but world class players don't seem to have much of an issue adjusting to speed of table and pocket size.
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I think in totality there may be less made balls / less runouts but it would still be directly proportional .
 
BmoreMoney said:
Good list. I must say though I do believe there is at least one level between intermediate and short stop. don't know what to call it but there are at least a couple levels in general in between there in pool in general.
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I just made them up without too much thought so it could be incomplete :p
 
Poolmanis said:
I just made them up without too much thought so it could be incomplete :p
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All good bro, just my opinion there is a HUGE jump between intermediate and short stop levels that's all. But I will absolutely agree Efren is KING!!!
 
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