No UBER. We need a fast car just in case there are too many surrounding us.
I might also run out of ammo.
Stevie Moore parallel shots CTE video
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No UBER. We need a fast car just in case there are too many surrounding us.
I might also run out of ammo.
Well, included in those links is more than one example. And, I didn't go searching for 1 in 1000 videos to find a bad stroke. It's more like every video I analyzed, which isn't much admittedly. Some strokes require no fudging because they are on the correct shot line, of course, so that is to be expected.
Seems to me a reasonable person would conclude that at least there is some interesting evidence to consider in those videos. Maybe the method is magic, but maybe there are ways we can learn what is really happening instead of just throwing our hands in the air.
Actually, that question was for mohrt, but he seems to be preoccupied at the moment so your reply is appreciated.
My apologies.
I just spoke with a friend of mine who may have more knowledge of the game than anybody alive. He says CTE/Hal/Greenleaf is the real deal. Still seems strange but next time I see him we're gonna go over it.
If anybody can explain it or any other system its him.
I will report back - might be awhile
Jason
I just spoke with a friend of mine who may have more knowledge of the game than anybody alive. He says CTE/Hal/Greenleaf is the real deal. Still seems strange but next time I see him we're gonna go over it.
If anybody can explain it or any other system its him.
I will report back - might be awhile
Jason
Interesting, but not useful if your friend remains anonymous... just sayin'.
Looking forward to something more informative than "magic." (no offense to Tony).
Yep, me too.
He doesn't get involved in AZ. There are probably people here who know both of us and can figure it out, but I wont say without asking him first.
When I see him, if he wants, I'll let him post/answer on my acct.
Jason
He live around Baltimore?
Nope. Met when we both lived in FL. He doesn't live there anymore either.
He did say, like any aiming system, it has it's limitations, but very valuable. He talked very highly of CTE
Jason
Well there are things that can be ruled out. For one, there is no swoop or steering in the stroke after you turn to center cue ball. Someone mentioned Stan making a correction at the last moment and that is just not true. I don't do it either. If that were true the system would have never worked. Also the system isn't based on guessing or estimations. It is very procedural, albeit makes heavy use of perception. It is a visual system and very different from traditional aiming for certain. The one question left unanswered is WHY our perception does this with two spheres on a square with pockets at right angles. I don't have that specific answer, however it is not necessary to make the system work. We know the HOW, which has been explained in numerous ways over the course of time. If you can come up with the WHY, I'm sure ideas could be pondered or accepted. The HOW we know, although not everyone has solved it, obviously, as there is such hostility and doubt around the system. To me, honestly I think I could explain and show it in person to someone and get them to at least understand how it is working. Some things just don't relay in words or videos like they do in person.
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I think some sort of spring loaded cue with a third-eye trainer on it would be a good place to start.
So that we can at least rule out the human element.
To actually figure out what a person is seeing and doing with their eyes though, seems like a trickier proposition.
edit: Actually the third-eye trainer might be enough to ensure straight delivery. Only problem I can see is that I think my pivots come across the face of the ball into center.
Yea i've met a few CTE users here in Florida since I moved here.
Whoa! This is totally unexpected but very welcomed.
If it still seems strange now just wait until you start training your eyes and brain to see shots in a totally new and different perspective. What won't make sense is how in the hell balls are going in from every where with this kind of process compared to what you're used to doing.
I know because I played exactly the same way you do with contact points for about 15 years before meeting Hal.
If seeing balls go in while doing something so very different from anything you've ever been exposed to doesn't capture your curiosity and quest to delve further, I don't know what will.
All I can say is have fun. Learning something new that works great is always fun.
I usually don't post in the CTE threads, as I think all the arguing is not needed. Were all just pool players that should be getting along, trying to help others then constantly berating others. Enough said.
I will say that I've been using CTE now for a number of years and for me it works. Am I perfect with it, NO. But that's me. I'm nowhere as good as Mohrt or Gerry, but I do all right. I also use 8 pack's system, to some extent and whatever it takes. I remember Ron V.(R.I.P. Ron) telling me when I went and saw him, that you just don't use 1 thing, use everything in your toolbox. And he said something similar on his video's. The bottom line is, I use CTE most of the time and balls drop a lot, not all the time as all my fundamentals, eyesight, age and body injuries don't let me always get in the same spot.
Just the other night though, It was a night were I was seeing things and realing try hard to get my head and body to the right position, in leagues, my team members couldn't stop saying that was some nice shooting, back cuts , long thin slices etc. Telling me you really played good, I'm the oldest on the team and didn't lose a game.
So for you guys that don't think it works, you should give it try. I make shots I would never make and I don't care why it works , but it does.
I will say that I've been using CTE now for a number of years and for me it works. Am I perfect with it, NO. But that's me. I'm nowhere as good as Mohrt or Gerry, but I do all right. I also use 8 pack's system, to some extent and whatever it takes. I remember Ron V.(R.I.P. Ron) telling me when I went and saw him, that you just don't use 1 thing, use everything in your toolbox. And he said something similar on his video's. The bottom line is, I use CTE most of the time and balls drop a lot, not all the time as all my fundamentals, eyesight, age and body injuries don't let me always get in the same spot.
Just the other night though, It was a night were I was seeing things and realing try hard to get my head and body to the right position, in leagues, my team members couldn't stop saying that was some nice shooting, back cuts , long thin slices etc. Telling me you really played good, I'm the oldest on the team and didn't lose a game.
So for you guys that don't think it works, you should give it try. I make shots I would never make and I don't care why it works , but it does.
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Definetly the WHY can get a lot of slack.
The HOW aspect, though, is a different story.
There are many nuances for the HOW TO DO CTE that has taken me years and yeas to understand for appropriate explanatory purposes.
Understanding every element of HOW is so huge. It's mandatory for pros to understand the HOWs for all 3 applications of CTE:, BASIC CTE, CTE PRO ONE and PRO ONE. At the pro level the intertwining of the three methods must eventually be mastered. The same can be said for any aspiring player.
Discovering the nuances of HOW has been my toughest challenge.
Stan Shuffett
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That's why I'm looking forward to the clinics, I really believe that with some fine tuning, I'll do even better.
And I know that you've put in ALOT of hours in this. If someone watches every you tube (free) and realizes how much time it takes just to watch them, then consider's how much time it had to take to make all of them. That to me should make it quite simple to see how much effort you put into this.
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General Information:
My clinics will be presentational/explanational only. I will very thoroughly explain and demo all 3 approaches.
Stan Shuffett
Thanks for the reply. I'm beginning to remember why I gave up on these threads last time. I show clear evidence of mid-stroke adjustments and even swooping and all the CTE people, JB in particular, say "Nope, nothing to see here." If everybody weren't so defensive that their image of CTE might be altered, and joined the effort to learn more, then maybe both sides of the debate would learn something.
About the stroke corrections -- unless you have analyzed a stroke in slow motion with video analysis software, then you can't make the claim that no stroke adjustments are being made. I'm not saying they are intentional, they just happen.
How do you really know? I can pocket a ball with the corner to corner shot, follow it in with the cue ball, and still have a swoop that I can't really detect unless I see it on camera.
Unfortunately my experience in this forum is that new ideas, if they challenge the orthodoxy, are not welcome. For instance:
There's an older video of Dave Segal, a practitioner of CTE, running some balls in straight pool. I only watched two of his break shots and you could drive a mack truck through the swoop in his stroke just before the forward motion of the cue. He pivots, takes some practice strokes, and then delivers the cue in a direction completely different from the practice strokes. (break shots are easier to analyze because the stroke is usually longer, and the additional speed tends to amplify any small stroke error, IMO).
Now, I don't say that to criticize. He's apparently quite a good player, and this video was some years ago. But, he was clearly using CTE and I make the simple observation that the direction of his "shot" stroke does not resemble the "practice" strokes. Maybe that is OK and CTE doesn't require a straight stroke as long as you have set up in the correct position. I don't know, but I do know that nobody who uses CTE seems at all interested in this information. I get more of a "Burn the witch!" vibe.
Well that's the problem right there in a nutshell. You shouldn't be surprised by this. Most of us "deniers," Lou included, started this CTE journey with interest in what it was all about. Where things go sour is when CTE supporters start talking gibberish and then attack the skeptics. Only now are people starting to say they don't really understand it but it just works. Instead, we get treated to a line of crap that sounds technical but doesn't mean anything.
I like mohrt and tony's take on this: They believe there is some optical illusion that occurs that tricks you into seeing the same "set up" and getting different results. Why not just say that from the beginning and leave it at that? Of course I'm sure there are ways to prove that idea one way or the other, but, again, I'm afraid too many people here are afraid to challenge the orthodoxy (hence the "cult" reference).
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