Pool Room in Warehouse Space!

[Cardigan Kid]

Ok I got it dropping quarters or $2.00 a match.

Robin, this is a very interesting thread, and it's sad news about Chandleys...I remember that thread and was in awe at the sight of all those glorious tables.

For my two cents, I was recommend getting in contact with the billiard/snooker clubs in Europe for their business models.
I recall players like Thorsten and Johan Ruijsink describing private clubs with coaches available, nice tables...the x factor would be the paid membership dues and fees when coming to the club...this I believe allows you the latitude in working outside the commercial zoning laws because the place is now private.

Here in America, I knew a nightclub manager back in the 90s that has a private membership only club in a sub basement of a warehouse district in Seattle. You had to get sponsored/invited to get in...paid membership...Then attend. They got around the liquor license/zoning laws utilizing this method. It was logical and sustained the business.

Maybe the future belongs to fifty pool players supporting and maintaining an 8 table private membership club with sign up times, etc....

My son competes in junior fencing at a local fencing academy and has jujitsu class at a local school...both places have monthly dues, and you can pay extra for one on one private lessons...basically to pay a flat fee a month and can attend as many classes aa you want....and these business models are sustainable.

Pool is a niche sport now and has to follow niche sport business models.

 

[Agent 99]

5 new Pool halls opening in Houston this month, three are very small with a few bar tables and 2 b' tables, but two of them will have 15 - 20 tables with 4 Gold Crowns.

Pool is alive and well in Texas, maybe its the cheap rent or the crazy population growth which is none stop in Houston, San Antonio, Austin and Dallas or the fact that anybody can get a liquor license.

And that's the real key to owning a good Pool Hall, cheap liquor and eatable food, any food. There are a number of Pool Halls in Houston doing $20,000-$35,000 a month in liquor sales, they don't care about the Pool revenue, its a throw in.

Sale drinks and survive, its simple.

Yes I agree ... In this day in age the major profit center in a pool hall business can not be table time. Alcohol is a dandy - In Vegas slot machines and bar counter top gaming is terrific.

I think a profitable room today has to be some what of a social center where you can widen the customer base -- everyone likes to eat and watch sports on TV -- non gamblers love to buy squares in a pool, eat drink and watch the game at your joint.

Perhaps start with (6) nine footers and (6) 7 footers and dedicate plenty of space for people to eat, drink and watch the games as they check to see if they bought the lucky square.

 

[Steve Dickey]

In my area the APA pays the bar/poolhall owner $2 for green fees/person. So 5 people play per night, which results in $10 for the owner, to use the table for approximately 5 hours($2/hr). No business could stay afloat on that alone. Hell, minimum wage here just went to $10/hr, and is on it's way to $15/hr. Further, everybody on this board wants to be playing on 9' Diamonds with clean Simonis cloth and plenty of room around each table.

I tend to think that a group of 8-10 people could rent some space, forgo employees, workers comp, payroll taxes, accounting, business licenses, etc. and make a go of it. Still, I think it would cost a minimum of $500 apiece initially, with ongoing expenses of $100/mo depending on exactly how you set it up.

 

[336Robin]

Interesting Subject

Yeah this is interesting. Years ago I had this concept and if a guy wanted to do it, run it himself be there and lock up and all of that he might make it pay for itself or a group of several owners all in for about 5 to 7 grand a piece. Everyone would have a night or day they worked that rotated and the profits go split the same number of ways.

I think Pool has or is transitioning and its not going to be much longer before leagues start feeling the pain. If they can continue to adapt that might work but I'm thinking more along the lines of putting a table in myself these days.

Pool has become a fringe niche sport just as you suggest. Its a great game to play that calls for intense work to perfect it and has fallen from favor due to the times.Sad but true..

Robin, this is a very interesting thread, ...I remember that thread and was in awe at the sight of all those glorious tables.

For my two cents, I was recommend getting in contact with the billiard/snooker clubs in Europe for their business models.
I recall players like Thorsten and Johan Ruijsink describing private clubs with coaches available, nice tables...the x factor would be the paid membership dues and fees when coming to the club...this I believe allows you the latitude in working outside the commercial zoning laws because the place is now private.

Here in America, I knew a nightclub manager back in the 90s that has a private membership only club in a sub basement of a warehouse district in Seattle. You had to get sponsored/invited to get in...paid membership...Then attend. They got around the liquor license/zoning laws utilizing this method. It was logical and sustained the business.

Maybe the future belongs to fifty pool players supporting and maintaining an 8 table private membership club with sign up times, etc....

My son competes in junior fencing at a local fencing academy and has jujitsu class at a local school...both places have monthly dues, and you can pay extra for one on one private lessons...basically to pay a flat fee a month and can attend as many classes aa you want....and these business models are sustainable.

Pool is a niche sport now and has to follow niche sport business models.

 

[336Robin]

Yep

In my area the APA pays the bar/poolhall owner $2 for green fees/person. So 5 people play per night, which results in $10 for the owner, to use the table for approximately 5 hours($2/hr). No business could stay afloat on that alone. Hell, minimum wage here just went to $10/hr, and is on it's way to $15/hr. Further, everybody on this board wants to be playing on 9' Diamonds with clean Simonis cloth and plenty of room around each table.

I tend to think that a group of 8-10 people could rent some space, forgo employees, workers comp, payroll taxes, accounting, business licenses, etc. and make a go of it. Still, I think it would cost a minimum of $500 apiece initially, with ongoing expenses of $100/mo depending on exactly how you set it up.

Set up some rules and make it a key club.....thats coming and maybe coming for league play.

 

[book collector]

If you can open a pool room for 30 grand you are already a winner!
You can't even build the handicapped access for that here.

 

[spktur]

If you can open a pool room for 30 grand you are already a winner!
You can't even build the handicapped access for that here.

Yeah, they don't have a real-life view of the costs of going into business nad the way they describe the operation is like it's a hobby.

 

[336Robin]

Something like that...

If you can open a pool room for 30 grand you are already a winner!
You can't even build the handicapped access for that here.

Something like that would necessitate that it be a private key club. There would no way one could do something like that and make it worthwhile.

 

[Banks]

I have tables, don't charge for league play, don't really care and bars are happy with it. Try not to have a crappy business.

 

[captainjko]

If you can open a pool room for 30 grand you are already a winner!
You can't even build the handicapped access for that here.

If the building is on ground level, one will not have to be built..Just parking space.... If building has been run as a business before, access may already be in place.........:thumbup:

 

[lorider]

A good number of the leaguers in our area only plays once a week. I would estimate about a 1/5 of them or less come back to the room during the week.

That is the problem the owner could easily give a little if he was getting enough but with the current costs of doing business that starts working against him..

After being a member of this forum for several years I am just amazed at continuously reading stories about pool halls closing....amateur players basically wanting to play for free with most wanting what fees they paid in back at the end of the session . They all want 9 foot tables....clean balls and new cloth and no inexperienced players in sight in the off chance they decide to visit an establishment once a week ...or less. Where di they think the money is gonna come from to support their ideal pool world ?

The more complaints I read on here about other areas the more I think my area must be unique.

We have the rack...all diamond tables.more bar tables than 9' s admittedly and its open 24/7.

We have sharpshooters....only 3 nine footers and 16 valleys that are always in good shape.

We have high pockets.....my favorite place.

Another place that bills itself as a pool hall but I refuse to call I that.

Then we have another place that I have never been to so I cant comment on that place.

They all host leagues with high pockets being the most popular. None of them provide free pool for league players with the exception of high pockets which provides free practice which he does on his on accord.from what I can tell they all stay busy and are in no danger of facing financial difficulties due to lack of players.

Another thing I noticed. Dozens of league players....i mean literally dozens play several leagues several nights a week.

Countless...like myself have and are currently playing several leagues a week also. We are talking about several different apa divisions...napa...both in house and travel money leagues. When tri cups or ltc's arrive you will encounter dozens of people who are qualified on several teams . It gets hectic when you have apa tri cups and money league playoffs the same weekend a couple times a year trying to schedule your players around both gets to be a real pain but people around here really love to play pool I guess.

I myself have the following teams qualified.

For tri cups
1 - 9 ball singles
1- 8 ball singles
2 - 8 ball scotch doubles

Already qualified for cities

1-8 ball singles
1 - 9 ball doubles

It's apparent we have a more vibrant pool community than most other areas.

 

[strmanglr scott]

We had a bar that had 3 7ftrs. Leagues 3-4 nights, at least one tourney on the weekend.

New cloth at the beginning of every fall. New aramith balls too.

Ran free pool w any purchase mon-sat 11-6. Not because he had to.

He was busy the first year during the free pool. Every year it declined. To the point I would go in at noon and the place was empty.

Another large bar w 6, 8ft Diamonds. Ran $2.00 an hour table time on Sundays, not per player, per table.

Go in around 6:00pm several open tables to use.

There's a decent size pool community in mid-Michigan but from what I see, it's all league and small tourneys on 7 footers.

I don't even know where I could go to play on a nine, probably Grand Rapids or Detroit, Jackson maybe, I don't know the area there.

 

[336Robin]

Smaller Tables

This is what Ive heard all over is 7ft, 8ft and few 9fts. Im not sure what the right prescription here in NC is the only thing I can figure is put a pool table in at the house or drive an hour. Memphis sounds like a pretty good atmosphere here were mostly rural.

We had a bar that had 3 7ftrs. Leagues 3-4 nights, at least one tourney on the weekend.

New cloth at the beginning of every fall. New aramith balls too.

Ran free pool w any purchase mon-sat 11-6. Not because he had to.

He was busy the first year during the free pool. Every year it declined. To the point I would go in at noon and the place was empty.

Another large bar w 6, 8ft Diamonds. Ran $2.00 an hour table time on Sundays, not per player, per table.

Go in around 6:00pm several open tables to use.

There's a decent size pool community in mid-Michigan but from what I see, it's all league and small tourneys on 7 footers.

I don't even know where I could go to play on a nine, probably Grand Rapids or Detroit, Jackson maybe, I don't know the area there.

 

[book collector]

If the building is on ground level, one will not have to be built..Just parking space.... If building has been run as a business before, access may already be in place.........:thumbup:

You might also, find a sack of money in one of the walls, when you remodel.:thumbup:

 

[336Robin]

The purpose of the thread

I'm amazed as well. I think that Pool latched onto Alcohol as a means of preservation and even that is going to give out at some point. So thats why I posted this as an alternative.

I think that Pool Places could once again exist but they would have to be more recreational in nature and more like a service to the community being owned by several people or by something like a Senior Center and run by them.

Pool is headed to the garage or home game room as room owners find out they can't cover the costs for the floor space because its not even a good draw for other customers because of the spending habits of the pool customers that we do have.

It's all about the money, bottom line.

Why open a bar with Pool Tables when the customers that use them don't support the bar?

It would be easier to have amusement machines, pin ball, electronic games anything to burn up a quarter at a time to keep people there.

After being a member of this forum for several years I am just amazed at continuously reading stories about pool halls closing....amateur players basically wanting to play for free with most wanting what fees they paid in back at the end of the session . They all want 9 foot tables....clean balls and new cloth and no inexperienced players in sight in the off chance they decide to visit an establishment once a week ...or less. Where di they think the money is gonna come from to support their ideal pool world ?

The more complaints I read on here about other areas the more I think my area must be unique.

We have the rack...all diamond tables.more bar tables than 9' s admittedly and its open 24/7.

We have sharpshooters....only 3 nine footers and 16 valleys that are always in good shape.

We have high pockets.....my favorite place.

Another place that bills itself as a pool hall but I refuse to call I that.

Then we have another place that I have never been to so I cant comment on that place.

They all host leagues with high pockets being the most popular. None of them provide free pool for league players with the exception of high pockets which provides free practice which he does on his on accord.from what I can tell they all stay busy and are in no danger of facing financial difficulties due to lack of players.

Another thing I noticed. Dozens of league players....i mean literally dozens play several leagues several nights a week.

Countless...like myself have and are currently playing several leagues a week also. We are talking about several different apa divisions...napa...both in house and travel money leagues. When tri cups or ltc's arrive you will encounter dozens of people who are qualified on several teams . It gets hectic when you have apa tri cups and money league playoffs the same weekend a couple times a year trying to schedule your players around both gets to be a real pain but people around here really love to play pool I guess.

I myself have the following teams qualified.

For tri cups
1 - 9 ball singles
1- 8 ball singles
2 - 8 ball scotch doubles

Already qualified for cities

1-8 ball singles
1 - 9 ball doubles

It's apparent we have a more vibrant pool community than most other areas.