APA rating question

[Maniac]

My friend has been a 5 for months and I can stay with him tied up. I never play 9 ball but when I do I can run 5-6 balls on average. As for 8 ball I usally average a 5 ball run. Sometimes I'll run off 6 or 7 and screw up shape on the 8. So I try not to clear all my balls unless I know I can pull shape on the 8 ball. As far as people marking safeties I doubt my team captain knocking back miller had a clue as to when I shot safe.

You sound as if you're a solid SL5 to me.

As far as the scoring goes, a large portion of APA players that keep score thinks that a safe is a small metal box under the bed for hiding their life savings in. One night after the play was over, we had marked 27 defensive shots on our score sheet....they had marked 2. I have also seen where their scorekeepers mark several innings per game more than I had marked on my score sheet, and an unwillingness to change their marks. It is what it is.

As far as people telling you to just show up, play your best, and have fun with it....this is sound advice. No sense of getting worked up over a handicapped league that determines your skill level depending on how well the scorekeeper does their job.

I am a SL7 in 9-ball and a SL6 in 8-ball. I've just come back to league play after a 3-year hiatus. At nearly 64 years of age I can no longer play at the level I was playing at when I left, so I just make it my personal challenge to outrun the handicap. But as far as the winning and losing go, I couldn't give a rat's ass. If I wanna go to Vegas, then I'll buy a plane ticket and go.

Good luck and enjoy!

Maniac

 

[justadub]

They told me every man starts as a four.

As I understand it, if you asked the LO to start you higher, because you know you are better than that, they can do that.

We had a known player here start as a 4, we all knew he would be a 7. We just joked about it, kinda all guessing how long it would take. (5 or 6 matches I think, lol.) I played him when he was a 5, (my skill level) and gave him plenty of grief for having to play him even. (We're good friends.) Had a lot of fun, I dont think he shut me out at least.

It happens. In the scheme of things, it probably wont affect the standings at the end, tho anything is possible.

 

[goombavskoopa]

This is probably true. The LO you are talking about is an internationally known player in his day and has written a few books about pool. Its fairly easy for an advanced player to tell correct skill level for a player just by watching them shoot- regardless of if they make balls.

yes he is. He's an amazing trick shot artist and is a great player. He's written a few different books and is also a very generous LO. He buys us extra spots in Vegas and gives a ton of stuff away......but i'll tell you right now, I see SL1 and SL2s who were taught basic fundamentals who can stand square to a shot, and never make it regardless of how much they practice because they still have poor mechanics. I'm not upset because my handicap was raised.....because in the end he's trying to do his job the best he can and he wants to eliminate sandbagging from his league. I do have a problem because of his reason, not because of what happened.

If i had broke, ran 6 balls and missed and he felt that I was sandbagging.....then i'd never even mention it. But i do have an issue I got raised over my stance.

 

[lorider]

They told me every man starts as a four.

There is such a thing as a known player clause in apa. I ran into that situation a couple years ago.
We were playing a friend of mines team and she picked up a player who had never played apa but I knew very well . I told her I knew the rule about al new males started as a 4 but this guy was way better than that. She asked what I thought he would be and I said a 7.

She said no way was she starting him as a 7 . I said ok lets start him as a 6. Again she said no way and I said what the heck how about a 5 . It's only the first week of the session and one loss against him aint gonna matter.

She agreed to start him as a 5 and sure enough he was a 7 the following week.

Funny story about her. Like I said we are friends now and I have even played on a couple of teams for her and have played partners with her in jack and Jill tournaments.

She happened to call the lo complaint about me in my first ever match in apa. I was playing her 7 in 9 ball and half way through the match she called the lo . I thought it was funny as I was standing a few feet away while my opponent shot.

While she had the lo.on the phone she asked me if I had ever played any league before. I said yea ....bcapl for 10 months around 4 years ago. She asked what my handicap was then and I said a 6.9. She then asked my captain why he did not inform her of this and he said he did not know.

Long story short I won and was a 5 the next week.

 

[zpele]

yes he is. He's an amazing trick shot artist and is a great player. He's written a few different books and is also a very generous LO. He buys us extra spots in Vegas and gives a ton of stuff away......but i'll tell you right now, I see SL1 and SL2s who were taught basic fundamentals who can stand square to a shot, and never make it regardless of how much they practice because they still have poor mechanics. I'm not upset because my handicap was raised.....because in the end he's trying to do his job the best he can and he wants to eliminate sandbagging from his league. I do have a problem because of his reason, not because of what happened.

If i had broke, ran 6 balls and missed and he felt that I was sandbagging.....then i'd never even mention it. But i do have an issue I got raised over my stance.

Yes well he can also be a man of few words. More likely he recognized your talent and knew from experience what you should be ranked. He probably even used the line, 'it's more of a compliment than anything.'

 

[goombavskoopa]

Yes well he can also be a man of few words. More likely he recognized your talent and knew from experience what you should be ranked. He probably even used the line, 'it's more of a compliment than anything.'

Yes he can. And like I said, I'm not really mad about it.....it just puzzles me that a person's stance, the way they hold a cue or their stroke can dictate what their skill level is. I understand a "novice" pool player who is in it just to have fun and bang balls around wouldnt even care about any of those things. But you cant honestly tell me that everybody who holds the cue well and stands square is a SL4 or SL5... because if you can, then they should be SL7s because a SL7 would too stand square, hold the cue loose, use only a pivot in the elbow.

Look I like the LO. I've had hard feelings for him in the past but I've gotten over that. I saw that my perception was being skewed because of an individual I was associating myself with. Looking at the bigger picture he just wants to be fair to everybody and give them a fair shot. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I appreciate his efforts to make it enjoyable for everybody. He runs an amazing league with a lot of awesome people. I've made a ton of friends because of what that gentleman does. Dont take it as if I'm bashing him because I'm not. I just think in that particular instance, he was wrong.

 

[Johnsms3]

I used to play APA for 15 years. I was a SL7 in 9-ball and when I took a couple sessions off the first week of a new session I had to play another 7. I forget what the final score was, but I won and was raised to an SL8.

Stayed there until I left the APA all together. My win percentage as an SL8 is horrible. It got to the point I was hurting the team and felt it was best to leave.

This was 4 years ago and if I come back I have to play as an SL8 (according to the league), so no team wants a washed up SL8.

 

[trob]

I agree with an earlier poster. At the end of the day it's a pool league. Play to win and don't worry about your handy Cap

 

[lorider]

I agree with an earlier poster. At the end of the day it's a pool league. Play to win and don't worry about your handy Cap

Exactly right . All too often people judge opponents their opponents based on the outcome od their one game against them.

Dont matter that this person lost 4 matches in a row against you before. All they think about is....you beat mw tonight ...you are sandbagger.

I cant tell you how many times I have been called a sandbagger. I played 9 ball tri cups this weekend and was called a sandbagger yesterday .

Actually it created quite a buzz in the pool room. I am a 5 and word got around real quick when I beat a 7 38-23 in a 38-55 race. For a score of 17-3 win.

It don't matter I Los 15-5 to a 4 Friday night or loat 18-2 to a 7 today. Those losses are irrelevant to everyone....i won a game I should not have by a lop sided score and therefore I am a sandbagger .

 

[Skippy27]

While reading this thread I thought of a question kind of pertaining to the topic, in 9 ball if u call safe but pocket a ball legally you obviously get the point but can it be marked as a safe if a ball is pocketed? The two way shot was what made me think of it for instance there's a way to play ......

If you call safe, I mark before you even shoot so whether or not you make the ball accidental doesn't matter. You could earn more than one safe in an inning.

 

[Skippy27]

Exactly right . All too often people judge opponents their opponents based on the outcome od their one game against them.

Dont matter that this person lost 4 matches in a row against you before. All they think about is....you beat mw tonight ...you are sandbagger.

I cant tell you how many times I have been called a sandbagger. I played 9 ball tri cups this weekend and was called a sandbagger yesterday .

Actually it created quite a buzz in the pool room. I am a 5 and word got around real quick when I beat a 7 38-23 in a 38-55 race. For a score of 17-3 win.

It don't matter I Los 15-5 to a 4 Friday night or loat 18-2 to a 7 today. Those losses are irrelevant to everyone....i won a game I should not have by a lop sided score and therefore I am a sandbagger .

Loses are irrelevant because regardless of how good or bad you play, you still lose. You can purposely shoot bad or just shoot bad and the results are the same. Howver, it is a much different story to try to shoot just good enough to win. Can it be done? Sure but it is harder and less consistently done successfully. So watch the games, not matches, they win.

 

[lorider]

Loses are irrelevant because regardless of how good or bad you play, you still lose. You can purposely shoot bad or just shoot bad and the results are the same. Howver, it is a much different story to try to shoot just good enough to win. Can it be done? Sure but it is harder and less consistently done successfully. So watch the games, not matches, they win.

I realize the apa scoring system does not take your losses into consideration when determining your handicap.

What I am saying is that most players also base their opinion on your playing ability when they see you have a lop sided win....such as I had yesterday.

Like.i said .....i lost to a 4 by 15-5.....won.vs a 7.by 17-3......lost vs a 7 by 18-2.

Now some were saying I am a sandbagger because of my lop sided win vs that 7. If I was truly a sandbagger would I intentionally lose 15-5 vs a 4 ....putting us in the losers bracket......lose today 18-2 ....knocking us out of the tri cups.....solely to preserve my s/l 5 handicap.

It's just plain ludicrous to think that

 

[Maniac]

Now some were saying I am a sandbagger because of my lop sided win vs that 7. If I was truly a sandbagger would I intentionally lose 15-5 vs a 4 ....putting us in the losers bracket......lose today 18-2 ....knocking us out of the tri cups.....solely to preserve my s/l 5 handicap.

It's just plain ludicrous to think that

Yet........:sorry:

Maniac

 

[lorider]

Yet........:sorry:

Maniac

Thanks for the laugh.

Today after my 18-2 loss to a 7 my lo says ....what happened ? . I replied well I guess I came back to reality and realized i am still a suck ass 5 who is capable of catching a high gear once I. A blue moon.

The 7 I had just lost to was was standing there with a puzzled look on his face. My lo proceeded to tell him about my 17-3 win vs a 7 the previous day and mentioned the players name. This guy said.....really ? . Wow !! I am glad I caught you on a bad day.

My lo and I just bust out laughing .

 

[Celophanewrap]

I realize the apa scoring system does not take your losses into consideration when determining your handicap........

It actually does, sort of.
Because your losses are generally not part of the best 10 of the last 20 matches you
played, the losses I would think they usually just contribute to your "bulk matches".

 

[Skippy27]

It actually does, sort of.
Because your losses are generally not part of the best 10 of the last 20 matches you
played, the losses I would think they usually just contribute to your "bulk matches".

I don't believe that to be the case. I believe they track your best 20 wins, not all of your last 20 games.

You can just as easily lose 20 games in a row or even have a majority of your loses go 2 innines each because you are playing good players. That doesn't mean you are going to go to a 4 or 5 or even a 6 because you averaged 2 in 20 games and won none of them.

 

[Skippy27]

It's just plain ludicrous to think that

It is. People just need to worry about themselves and move on.

We all have our ups and downs. There are times I can go play and not miss a single makeable shot in 3 hours of playing. Then there are times I can't string more than 2 balls in a row.

 

[trob]

Thanks for the laugh.

Today after my 18-2 loss to a 7 my lo says ....what happened ? . I replied well I guess I came back to reality and realized i am still a suck ass 5 who is capable of catching a high gear once I. A blue moon.

The 7 I had just lost to was was standing there with a puzzled look on his face. My lo proceeded to tell him about my 17-3 win vs a 7 the previous day and mentioned the players name. This guy said.....really ? . Wow !! I am glad I caught you on a bad day.

My lo and I just bust out laughing .

That's the way apa 9 ball is . As a solid 9 I always say 4 and 5s are the hardest to beat. If you play at the skill level of a 7 for a good portion of your match I'm in trouble! Your good enough to put some balls together and your number is low enough that I'm going to have to play my ass off to beat you. But that's what I enjoy about apa. Trying to run down that handy capp. Many people I play wouldn't be much of a challenge in a straight up even match but the handy cap makes it interesting.

 

[hang-the-9]

As I understand it, if you asked the LO to start you higher, because you know you are better than that, they can do that.

We had a known player here start as a 4, we all knew he would be a 7. We just joked about it, kinda all guessing how long it would take. (5 or 6 matches I think, lol.) I played him when he was a 5, (my skill level) and gave him plenty of grief for having to play him even. (We're good friends.) Had a lot of fun, I dont think he shut me out at least.

It happens. In the scheme of things, it probably wont affect the standings at the end, tho anything is possible.

I don't think I would have let a known player start so much under their handicap. You can always make a manual adjustment if the system starts them out at a wrong level. I've actually made my son play at a higher level a few times in tournaments because of the relative skill of the others there. He is a bit under me, but was over the other players with his same handicap, I told the tournament director to raise him one. He still won the tournament at his higher handicap LOL

Our league (USAPL) is also pretty good about putting in known players in at their proper rating from the start, and almost every time someone did not agree with their rating and were put in lower, in several weeks they slowly moved towards the rating they should have had to begin with LOL

 

[hang-the-9]

Loses are irrelevant because regardless of how good or bad you play, you still lose. You can purposely shoot bad or just shoot bad and the results are the same. Howver, it is a much different story to try to shoot just good enough to win. Can it be done? Sure but it is harder and less consistently done successfully. So watch the games, not matches, they win.

I lose many games in 9 ball on the 8 or 9, but I still play up to my skill level. Running 7 or 8 balls to miss the 8 or 9 will still give the worse player a win, but that won't mean they are a good player. Shooting in a 9 in the jaws because you just barely missed it is not much skill. I would never want to see a player go up in skill because they beat me 3-0 when those 3 losses were because I left them 1-2-3 ball run outs.

I've lost matches when I ran 90% of the balls in the match but they only needed 3 games to my 7. I'd lose 3-5 or something but they would have shot 3-4-5 balls the whole 8 games we played. Yes I lost, but it's not because of the other players skill that they should not be a 3. They shot like a 3, the issue in the loss is that I also shot like a 3 when I was a 7 LOL.