Reply to Dan White's Questions

[JB Cases]

https://youtu.be/Ryx6-0fnH0o

This is a long winded video of me trying to explain to Dan White (and everyone else) why and how CTE works for any shot on the table that can be made directly to a pocket.

Dan's fundamental question is how is it possible to use the same aiming lines for different ball positions in the Center to Edge system. Hopefully this clears it up to some degree.

Warning, this is LONG. It's part of a long discussion/argument on aiming methods in pool. This isn't really intended as instruction but some of you may find some of the content interesting.

Also it's done on my toy table at home.....that may be funny, boring, stupid etc....

 

[JoeyInCali]

5:33, the center of the cueball to the edge of the OB that is the farthest from the pocket???
Wouldn't that be the contact point?

Not the edge of the OB that is the very edge you see when you line up the two balls?????

 

[JB Cases]

5:33, the center of the cueball to the edge of the OB that is the farthest from the pocket???
Wouldn't that be the contact point?

Not the edge of the OB that is the very edge you see when you line up the two balls?????

I see what you're saying. The proper way to say it is the edge that is opposite of the cut. From the perspective of the shooter it IS the visible "edge" that is farthest away from the pocket.

The contact point is of course the point in line with the pocket.

 

[louieatienza]

John, just wanted to ask.... so the "perception " of the angle determines the aim point on the OB? Also are the divisions on the OB from the view of the CTE line, or aim line?

 

[JB Cases]

John, just wanted to ask.... so the "perception " of the angle determines the aim point on the OB? Also are the divisions on the OB from the view of the CTE line, or aim line?

The divisions are referenced from the body placement that the body is forced to adopt by using the CTE line as the initial orientation.

Yes, the perception of the ABC lines is driven by the thick/thin perception after the CTE line is used to orient yourself.

If you think of the combination of aiming lines as keys, CTEL+A CTEL+B etc....then it will become pretty obvious for most shots which one is the right key. For some shots two keys can work and for some only one can work. There are no shots where all three works. This is simplistic and where two "keys" works it is combined with a certain type of perception that is more detailed.

But in general the ABC perceptual aim points will cover all shots which can be made directly into a pocket except very thin cuts.

 

[GoldenFlash]

A pretty darn good piece of work, Mr. Barton.

https://youtu.be/Ryx6-0fnH0o
This is a long winded video of me trying to explain to Dan White (and everyone else) why and how CTE works for any shot on the table that can be made directly to a pocket.
Dan's fundamental question is how is it possible to use the same aiming lines for different ball positions in the Center to Edge system. Hopefully this clears it up to some degree.
Warning, this is LONG. It's part of a long discussion/argument on aiming methods in pool. This isn't really intended as instruction but some of you may find some of the content interesting.
Also it's done on my toy table at home.....that may be funny, boring, stupid etc....

I sat through the entire thing....three times
You did a very, very, good piece of work.
Having never met Stan Shuffett in person or having never taken a lesson from him, I now am certain I am doing the right things with this CTE aiming method. All I have is the DVD stuff I bought from him. (I now know why my percentage of "made shots" has increased like it has).
Whether you get along with people on here, or whether they get along with you, or whether personality clashes exist, or whether or not you and some guy play a match for $20,000 or 20 million dollars or for 50 cents, whether you're a jerk or not, whether or not you can execute pool shooting after getting the shot line, whether you jump up in the air, or "pull them pistols and whistle Dixie" :smile:.....has NOTHING to do with what has been put forth here in this video.
It's now a matter with me of continued practice and suggesting to the subconscious mind that this method of locating a precise aiming target really works as well as I thought it would. (this is very important to me....I really believe in subconscious suggestions).
I know that jeers and sarcastic ridicule from the usual suspects are on the way....doesn't matter one bit to me. I'm not ever going to meet any of them anyway. They mean nothing to me and they do not enrich my pool shooting life one bit.
All CTE has done for me is to really raise my shot making percentage....and that's all I ever wanted from spending my money with Stan Shuffett in the first place.

 

[louieatienza]

The divisions are referenced from the body placement that the body is forced to adopt by using the CTE line as the initial orientation.

Yes, the perception of the ABC lines is driven by the thick/thin perception after the CTE line is used to orient yourself.

If you think of the combination of aiming lines as keys, CTEL+A CTEL+B etc....then it will become pretty obvious for most shots which one is the right key. For some shots two keys can work and for some only one can work. There are no shots where all three works. This is simplistic and where two "keys" works it is combined with a certain type of perception that is more detailed.

But in general the ABC perceptual aim points will cover all shots which can be made directly into a pocket except very thin cuts.

Do you adjust your bridge hand position when the CB is farther away from the OB, given the same OB placement and same CB target line?

Also, I've seen some CTE discussions that use 1/8 for the aim point on thin shots. Do you use that, or have you tried it?

 

[SakuJack]

lol at telling your daughter to go to her room because you're making a video to post on an Internet forum.

Honestly - and I genuinely do say this with honest intent - I think you should just stop posting here. It's not that I don't enjoy it or find it entertaining - but man, I think it's legitimately bad for you.

 

[GoldenFlash]

lol at telling your daughter to go to her room because you're making a video to post on an Internet forum.
Honestly - and I genuinely do say this with honest intent - I think you should just stop posting here. It's not that I don't enjoy it or find it entertaining - but man, I think it's legitimately bad for you.

Children should be seen...and not heard.

 

[SakuJack]

Children should be seen...and not heard.

... said no good parent ever.

 

[mohrt]

lol at telling your daughter to go to her room because you're making a video to post on an Internet forum.

Honestly - and I genuinely do say this with honest intent - I think you should just stop posting here. It's not that I don't enjoy it or find it entertaining - but man, I think it's legitimately bad for you.

I don't see this any differently than talking on the phone and asking a child to stop making noise or go somewhere else. You can't just move somewhere quieter with a video camera setup.

 

[Dan White]

https://youtu.be/Ryx6-0fnH0o


Dan's fundamental question is how is it possible to use the same aiming lines for different ball positions in the Center to Edge system. Hopefully this clears it up to some degree.

Hi John. I don't have a lot of free time this week so I'll be brief. First of all, I've received comments that you are talking down to me and being condescending and that I should take issue with this video. Coming from an engineering background, however, I believe what you are doing is merely repeating the "ground rules" and definitions so that we are on the same page. I don't have a problem with that.

I hesitate to say much more because (don't take this the wrong way) Stan just recently told everybody here in AZ that you don't really understand CTE Pro1 and aren't using it properly. I have little interest in debating the John Barton Aiming Method (JBAM). So if Stan is reading, maybe he can chime in and endorse what you are saying in the video. Otherwise there isn't much point to having a discussion.

Most of what you are saying revolves around things I never said or had issue with, and your interpretation of what I said about the subconscious is completely off base.

So your intent was to explain how the quoted text above can be done, ie, how to make "15 degree and 18 degree shots" with the same perception. You get to the point of the video at 12:30 in, where you move the ball to the 18 degree angle. You completely failed to explain anything. You said the 15 degree shot is CTELA, and look at my bridge hand, and then the 18 degree shot is CTELA, see, just look at my bridge hand again! Bingo!

Do you really not understand what my question is? I know you are using the same perception (at least you think you are) and getting two different shot results.

Here, this will illustrate my point: Take your toy table and put a hole reinforcer where the cue ball is at the first shot on the 12 ball. Put another reinforcer where the 12 ball is the first time. Put a third reinforcer an inch to the left of the 12 ball so you have a little sharper angle, but one that you say is still CTELA. Turn your video recorder on and shoot those two shots again. Instead of simply saying "See, they're both CTELA" the way Stan does, how about explaining what magic is occurring that makes both shots work with CTELA. I can think of about 3 ways it would work, but none of them have anything to do with CTE Pro1. mohrt says the table shape fools your eye/brain. Do you think the toy table is fooling your eye in the same way a real table does? Do you agree with mohrt's theory?

Anyway, let's face it that we'll never get past this question, possibly because your devotion to Hal won't let you. I don't know. All I know is this is far too simple a question to deserve 51 minutes of reply.

I don't want to dilute my response with too much more because I'm afraid it will steer you away from the simple question that continues to go unanswered (see above).

Cute kids, I'll give you that.

 

[stan shuffett]

Yes, I will chime in! First off, I am darn well not investing upwards towards 40G into my book project to repeat exactly what I stated in previous works.
I am further down the road with my understanding of how to precisely use CTE, especially in the areas of pivoting, precision visuals and a visual technique never introduced before.
So, I am speaking the truth when I say that others can not explain the depths of CTE that I have come to know. I am not passing this new info around at this time. I did extend John an invitation to come to my home and get an update......It's not to say that others can't successfully explain my previous works because they can...........All I can say is that I have uncovered some extremely important aspects of CTE that I never thought possible.....

Stan Shuffett

 

[Dan White]

Yes, I will chime in! First off, I am darn well not investing upwards towards 40G into book project to repeat exactly what I stated in previous works.
I am further down the road with my understanding of how to precisely use CTE, specially in the area of pivoting, precision visuals and a visual technique never introduced before.
So, I am speaking the truth when I say that others can not explain the depths of CTE that I have come to know. I am not passing this new info around at this time. I did extend John an invitation to come to my home and get an update......It's not to say that others can't successfully explain my previous works because they can...........All I can say is that I have uncovered some extremely important aspects of CTE that I never thought possible.....

Stan Shuffett

...and you are going to explain what John neglected to in his video at 12:30 minutes in, right?

 

[stan shuffett]

...and you are going to explain what John neglected to in his video at 12:30 minutes in, right?

I will be sharing all that I have learned and all that anyone needs in order to correctly implement CTE. And you will be glad to know that no one has to spend even one buck with me to get the nuts and bolts.

Stan Shuffett

 

[stan shuffett]

Concerning John: John and I are friends and one thing that we have in common is that we each can speak our minds. We do not twist and spin words with each other. WORD SPINNING and lying and misrepresenting and that kind crap is something that I despise.
A man is only as good as his word.....I put a lot of stock into always speaking the truth. I can say the same about John.......Having said all of the above, I am honored to be having my official book release at John's facility. So, those that have tried to stir things up with John and me....ain't happening.

Stan Shuffett

 

[ribdoner]

Yes, I will chime in! First off, I am darn well not investing upwards towards 40G into my book project to repeat exactly what I stated in previous works.
I am further down the road with my understanding of how to precisely use CTE, specially in the area of pivoting, precision visuals and a visual technique never introduced before.
So, I am speaking the truth when I say that others can not explain the depths of CTE that I have come to know. I am not passing this new info around at this time. I did extend John an invitation to come to my home and get an update......It's not to say that others can't successfully explain my previous works because they can...........All I can say is that I have uncovered some extremely important aspects of CTE that I never thought possible.....

Stan Shuffett

i superficially perused some of the aiming threads, primarily for entertainment value and John's video, although confusing at times, has piqued my interest.

i'll give some of the concepts a whirl next time i'm at a table

best, adam

 

[GoldenFlash]

Concerning John: John and I are friends and one thing that we have in common is that we each can speak our minds. We do not twist and spin words with each other. WORD SPINNING and lying and misrepresenting and that kind crap is something that I despise.
A man is only as good as his word.....I put a lot of stock into always speaking the truth. I can say the same about John.......Having said all of the above, I am honored to be having my official book release at John's facility. So, those that have tried to stir things up with John and me....ain't happening.
Stan Shuffett

Please give plenty of advance notice of the location and when the book release will take place. There is a very high probability that I will fly there to enjoy the occasion.
I haven't had a vacation in a while and this looks like something I'd really enjoy.
Regards,
Me

 

[stan shuffett]

Please give plenty of advance notice of the location and when the book release will take place. There is a very high probability that I will fly there to enjoy the occasion.
I haven't had a vacation in a while and this looks like something I'd really enjoy.
Regards,
Me

Absolutely, GF! Will be a fun time!

Stan Shuffett

 

[GoldenFlash]

Hi John. I don't have a lot of free time this week so I'll be brief. First of all, I've received comments that you are talking down to me and being condescending and that I should take issue with this video. Coming from an engineering background, however, I believe what you are doing is merely repeating the "ground rules" and definitions so that we are on the same page. I don't have a problem with that.
I hesitate to say much more because (don't take this the wrong way) Stan just recently told everybody here in AZ that you don't really understand CTE Pro1 and aren't using it properly. I have little interest in debating the John Barton Aiming Method (JBAM). So if Stan is reading, maybe he can chime in and endorse what you are saying in the video. Otherwise there isn't much point to having a discussion.
Most of what you are saying revolves around things I never said or had issue with, and your interpretation of what I said about the subconscious is completely off base.
So your intent was to explain how the quoted text above can be done, ie, how to make "15 degree and 18 degree shots" with the same perception. You get to the point of the video at 12:30 in, where you move the ball to the 18 degree angle. You completely failed to explain anything. You said the 15 degree shot is CTELA, and look at my bridge hand, and then the 18 degree shot is CTELA, see, just look at my bridge hand again! Bingo!
Do you really not understand what my question is? I know you are using the same perception (at least you think you are) and getting two different shot results.
Here, this will illustrate my point: Take your toy table and put a hole reinforcer where the cue ball is at the first shot on the 12 ball. Put another reinforcer where the 12 ball is the first time. Put a third reinforcer an inch to the left of the 12 ball so you have a little sharper angle, but one that you say is still CTELA. Turn your video recorder on and shoot those two shots again. Instead of simply saying "See, they're both CTELA" the way Stan does, how about explaining what magic is occurring that makes both shots work with CTELA. I can think of about 3 ways it would work, but none of them have anything to do with CTE Pro1. mohrt says the table shape fools your eye/brain. Do you think the toy table is fooling your eye in the same way a real table does? Do you agree with mohrt's theory?
Anyway, let's face it that we'll never get past this question, possibly because your devotion to Hal won't let you. I don't know. All I know is this is far too simple a question to deserve 51 minutes of reply.
I don't want to dilute my response with too much more because I'm afraid it will steer you away from the simple question that continues to go unanswered (see above).
Cute kids, I'll give you that.

I thought the video he made was very good, but there again, I am a biased observer. since I am heavy into the study of this aiming procedure.
Plus I have somewhat of a small financial interest due to my previous purchase of the DVD from Stan Shuffett. Money comes hard to me....I'm kinda' tight with it. I try to not make many bad bets or risks.
A very significant thing he said and demonstrated (even on that toy table) was that "CTE with it's perceptions will take you right to the correct ghost ball position without having to imagine a ghost ball sitting there".
To my way of thinking, that raises the percentages in my favor of hitting the proper 'ghost ball target' (which I cannot see anyway).
Since I don't have to estimate or visualize an imaginary ghost ball sitting there next to the object ball on the shot line, I can just dial into A, B, C or a 'one liner', pivot, and pull the trigger.
Obviously if there are other issues.(you name 'em) in the execution of the stroke, then no aiming process in the world will make a player better. Even hitting a million balls.
Exactly how good anyone can become using this aiming method remains to be seen.
But with this CTE concept, at least I'm able to have a defined, repeatable, target selected before pulling that trigger without having to "imagine a ghost ball sitting there". That's a pretty good starting place, in my opinion.