are your local bar rules as dumb as mine?

[BRussell]

If I am not mistaken....cornerman correct me if I am wrong . Bcapl changed the rule from bih behind the line after a scratch on the break to bih anywhere around 15 or so years ago. Why ? I guess to make the game easier for you " serious" players .

It wasn't that long ago. Maybe 6 or 7 years ago.

My favorite example was when I called a guy for not hitting a rail after contact. He didn't complain, but it was pretty clear that he didn't know the rule.

At the end of the match I made the 8-ball on a straight-in shot. I went over to shake his hand and he said it was a foul because the cue ball didn't hit a rail. I shook his hand, chuckled, and walked away. This was in a tournament lol.

 

[Texas Carom Club]

It wasn't that long ago. Maybe 6 or 7 years ago.

My favorite example was when I called a guy for not hitting a rail after contact. He didn't complain, but it was pretty clear that he didn't know the rule.

At the end of the match I made the 8-ball on a straight-in shot. I went over to shake his hand and he said it was a foul because the cue ball didn't hit a rail. I shook his hand, chuckled, and walked away. This was in a tournament lol.

thats a good one

 

[ctyhntr]

I thought Cornerman clarified that these were old BCA rules. Current BCA rules follow World Standardized Rules.

Games rules do evolve over time. What we know as 9-ball started out as a tournament variant known as Texas Express rules 9-ball.

When I was in college, our frat used to have a house rule that women were allowed to move the cue ball 1 inch or one cue butt diameter away from the rail in order to make the shot.

Because some of those rules were " real " rules back in the day. I am pretty sure back when rules were changed .....such as open break and bih anywhere after a foul a lot of people thought they were dumb rules.

Lil I keep saying.....some of these things rules people keep touting as " real " have been Introduced to make the game easier and faster

 

[Texas Carom Club]

When I was in college, our frat used to have a house rule that women were allowed to move the cue ball 1 inch or one cue butt diameter away from the rail in order to make the shot.

bar player said he used to do that all the time whenever the cue ball was on a rail
but only 1 finger width

 

[pt109]

When I was in college, our frat used to have a house rule that women were allowed to move the cue ball 1 inch or one cue butt diameter away from the rail in order to make the shot.

bar player said he used to do that all the time whenever the cue ball was on a rail
but only 1 finger width

Allow me to introduce y'all to YMCA rules.
If the cue ball was froze, you could put the butt of your cue between the ball and the rail.
(and that rule didn't discriminate genders)

...and the six inch rule...
..if you touched the cue ball and it didn't go six inches, you could replay the shot.

 

[Cornerman]

If I am not mistaken....cornerman correct me if I am wrong . Bcapl changed the rule from bih behind the line after a scratch on the break to bih anywhere around 15 or so years ago. Why ? I guess to make the game easier for you " serious" players .

Yes, it was changed in BCAPL, but I believe it was less than 15 years ago. World Standardized Rules still is behind the line, as far as I know.

The 2002 Billiards Digest 8-ball rules article from Bob Jewett is an excellent read for those that want to get some history on the changing 8-ball rules.

 

[fastone371]

...and the six inch rule...
..if you touched the cue ball and it didn't go six inches, you could replay the shot.

That must have been a very common occurence on the old "shag carpeting" felt where you had to lag at break speed. On the current fast felt its all but impossible for your tip to touch the cue ball and not have it go 6".

 

[chefjeff]

Allow me to introduce y'all to YMCA rules.
If the cue ball was froze, you could put the butt of your cue between the ball and the rail.
(and that rule didn't discriminate genders)

...and the six inch rule...
..if you touched the cue ball and it didn't go six inches, you could replay the shot.

Those are exactly what we were told at the Y, too.

When we realized we didn't have a 6 inch ruler we.....well......

never mind.


Jeff Livingston

 

[eastcoast_chris]

Been a long time since I've played bar rules....

But about 12-15 years ago I played in a qualifier for the "Number 7 Eight Ball Challenge" in Ottawa, Canada. It was a series sponsored by a cigarette company.

I went to the qualifier in a road house type bar. (i'd been play BCA rules in leagues, etc.) and they decided they were playing bar rules, even though the tournament we were qualifying for was definitely BCA rules.

One rules was the "no need to get a rail" rule. Boy did they get pissed when I continually took advantage of it and would roll up on the back of my balls (snooker style).

Hope they learnt how silly their rules were when I left with the first place money/entry to the national tournament. :smile:

 

[pt109]

That must have been a very common occurence on the old "shag carpeting" felt where you had to lag at break speed. On the current fast felt its all but impossible for your tip to touch the cue ball and not have it go 6".

Those are exactly what we were told at the Y, too.

When we realized we didn't have a 6 inch ruler we.....well......

never mind.


Jeff Livingston

Well, the whole deal on the six inch rule in my hometown...even at snooker...
...was you grabbed whitey before it went past six inches...
...and we didn't have video replays, so the shooter always got the benefit of the doubt.

Push shots?....never heard of 'em...

 

[BRussell]

Been a long time since I've played bar rules....

But about 12-15 years ago I played in a qualifier for the "Number 7 Eight Ball Challenge" in Ottawa, Canada. It was a series sponsored by a cigarette company.

I went to the qualifier in a road house type bar. (i'd been play BCA rules in leagues, etc.) and they decided they were playing bar rules, even though the tournament we were qualifying for was definitely BCA rules.

One rules was the "no need to get a rail" rule. Boy did they get pissed when I continually took advantage of it and would roll up on the back of my balls (snooker style).

Hope they learnt how silly their rules were when I left with the first place money/entry to the national tournament. :smile:

That's the way to do it. :thumbup:

 

[Bob Jewett]

Yes, it was changed in BCAPL, but I believe it was less than 15 years ago. World Standardized Rules still is behind the line, as far as I know.

The 2002 Billiards Digest 8-ball rules article from Bob Jewett is an excellent read for those that want to get some history on the changing 8-ball rules.

See the second article in: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2002.pdf
There is a similar article for 9 ball but I don't think it's online yet.

 

[StraightPoolIU]

Interesting article. I love stuff like that. I can see the evolution of some rules, but it doesn't look like the "call absolutely everything" rule was ever part of any rule set. In fact it seems the opposite, that 8 ball wasn't a call shot game at all until relatively recently (explains APA rules though).

 

[chefjeff]

A rather large woman was playing my pool partner in a league with bar rules.

With the cueball near one of the spots, she had no shot at her ball (the rules state you have to try to make it--lol), so she just tapped the cueball to near the other spot, hitting nothing at all.

A she was laughing about it with her teammates, my bud did exactly what I knew would do: He hit the cueball right back to the other spot where it was before she shot.


You'd think he had just stabbed her in the back, literally. She went nuts, and I mean nuts. My bud just stood there and waited for break in her rant and said, "I just did what you first did."

As I remember it, she quit that game a loser.


Jeff Livingston

 

[skip100]

People tend to learn about "rail after contact" much more quickly than you might expect after the third or fourth time you snooker them by rolling up behind an object ball.

Behind the line is actually an advantage for the good player because it makes people shoot harder shots and allows for strategic intentional scratching.

This is just to say... you play in bars, you know what you're going to get.

Of course it is super annoying when people start throwing out made-up local rules to get you off the table, especially when it's on the 8-ball.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Of course it is super annoying when people start throwing out made-up local rules to get you off the table, especially when it's on the 8-ball.

Like the rule for ring games that we surprised at least one player with: the nine ball counts in all pockets on the break except the right foot pocket.

 

[Cornerman]

Interesting article. I love stuff like that. I can see the evolution of some rules, but it doesn't look like the "call absolutely everything" rule was ever part of any rule set. In fact it seems the opposite, that 8 ball wasn't a call shot game at all until relatively recently (explains APA rules though).

Exactly correct. The early 1970's 8-ball "World Championship" won by Jim Mataya were slop rules. Terry Bell (co-founder of the APA) sent me a note to confirm to me that he and Larry Hubbart did a survey with several road players on rules for 8-ball. He said that not one player had ever played "call pocket 8-ball."

I'm sure call pocket 8-ball existed in the 70's, but the professional road players that they had in their committee who played more pool than Friday night heroes didn't find it their travels. But then again, if they grew up playing slop 8-ball, then even if they saw "call Pocket 8-ball," they probably ignored it as non-standard.

So when people say that the APA rules is for amateurs, it's not true.
The rules that the pros knew for 8-ball at the time were what the Professional players were used to. Apparently, they haven't seen a compelling reason to change their rules as the WSR changes

Freddie <~~~ here we go

 

[Bob Jewett]

Doesn't everybody know that's sometimes a rule? (single pocket barred for nine on the break)

The reason behind the rule is that the way the craters were in the rack area, the nine would be dead about one in four to that one pocket. The rule actually applied to all nine ball games by the regulars and we didn't intentionally surprise the irregulars in the ring games -- we just didn't think to tell them. Amazing looks of surprise!

But the reason behind the nine being dead is also interesting. Jim the day manager was a pretty good player but not willing to actually gamble. He would sit at the desk reading a book, like a spider waiting for a fly. When a new student from the local university -- not yet wise to the ways of the world -- wandered in, Jim would propose a game of skill and chance. The main skill was in preparing the table, and the fly had no chance. "Sorry, my break is really on today."

 

[lorider]

How does making a penalty for an error more severe make the game easier?

I didn't say who it made it easier for.:grin:

You can't deny that a player who takes bih any where on the table can run out a whole lot easier than taking bih behind the line and that's the point I was trying to make.

 

[Texas Carom Club]

You dont say

So your now turning a scratch which a foul into a reward a weapon
Rewarding bad play

Sounds like something a bar player would condone