Question about Stun/ Stroke vs English/Throw

Rackattach

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Got asked a question today and I don't know how (or the why) to answer it properly.

Why is it that the same shot struck with punch/stun/center adds more throw and undercuts a shot vs. standard stroke/rolling cueball. Anyone else understand this and care to explain it?
 
From a pool player's perspective, it just happens. Lol. From a physics perspective, it's a friction-time thing.

The actual time that elapses during the collision is called the impulse. Naturally it's a tiny amount of time, measured in milliseconds. If you checked out the BU link, you probably noticed Dr. Dave's test results show less throw when the CB is shot hard versus soft. This is because a faster CB-OB collision creates a smaller impulse (contact time at the moment of collision). The softer shot has a slightly higher impulse during collision. Friction occurs during this time, so more time equals more friction, which equals more throw. Different angles produce different amounts of friction/impulse times as the CB's momentum transfers to the OB.

Here's where the stun shot comes in.... If the CB is rolling, or spinning forward or backward when it strikes the OB, it has a perimeter velocity during collision. The friction is reduced because the point of contact between the balls isn't stationary, the perimeter (outer surface) of the CB is moving across the contact point on the OB. A sliding CB (stun shot) results in a stationary contact point between the balls for the duration of the collision. I'd say it's sort of like the old box on a ramp: Think of a heavy box on a steep ramp. The friction between the box and the ramp is greater when the box is stationary. It takes an effort to get the box moving, but once you get it moving the friction decreases with the momentum of the sliding box, and it slides on down the ramp with minimal effort. Maybe that's not a good example.:confused:
 
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Got asked a question today and I don't know how (or the why) to answer it properly.

Why is it that the same shot struck with punch/stun/center adds more throw and undercuts a shot vs. standard stroke/rolling cueball. Anyone else understand this and care to explain it?
See the answer to the second italic question on the throw follow/draw resource page. It explains the reasons in fairly simple language.

Enjoy,
Dave
 
Don't kill me for this, but........................

I just have to: "A rolling stone gathers no toss".
 
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From a pool player's perspective, it just happens. Lol. From a physics perspective, it's a friction-time thing.

The actual time that elapses during the collision is called the impulse. Naturally it's a tiny amount of time, measured in milliseconds. If you checked out the BU link, you probably noticed Dr. Dave's test results show less throw when the CB is shot hard versus soft. This is because a faster CB-OB collision creates a smaller impulse (contact time at the moment of collision). The softer shot has a slightly higher impulse during collision. Friction occurs during this time, so more time equals more friction, which equals more throw. Different angles produce different amounts of friction/impulse times as the CB's momentum transfers to the OB.

Here's where the stun shot comes in.... If the CB is rolling, or spinning forward or backward when it strikes the OB, it has a perimeter velocity during collision. The friction is reduced because the point of contact between the balls isn't stationary, the perimeter (outer surface) of the CB is moving across the contact point on the OB. A sliding CB (stun shot) results in a stationary contact point between the balls for the duration of the collision. I'd say it's sort of like the old box on a ramp: Think of a heavy box on a steep ramp. The friction between the box and the ramp is greater when the box is stationary. It takes an effort to get the box moving, but once you get it moving the friction decreases with the momentum of the sliding box, and it slides on down the ramp with minimal effort. Maybe that's not a good example.:confused:

gave you a greenie
great explanation (except for the box on the ramp LOL)
 
From a pool player's perspective, it just happens. Lol. From a physics perspective, it's a friction-time thing.

The actual time that elapses during the collision is called the impulse. Naturally it's a tiny amount of time, measured in milliseconds. If you checked out the BU link, you probably noticed Dr. Dave's test results show less throw when the CB is shot hard versus soft. This is because a faster CB-OB collision creates a smaller impulse (contact time at the moment of collision). The softer shot has a slightly higher impulse during collision. Friction occurs during this time, so more time equals more friction, which equals more throw. Different angles produce different amounts of friction/impulse times as the CB's momentum transfers to the OB.
FYI, a longer contact time does not necessarily result in a greater friction effect. The peak impact force is actually less with a longer contact time, so the friction force is less (acting over a longer time) with a softer shot. For more info, see the discussion on the tip contact time resource page.

Here's where the stun shot comes in.... If the CB is rolling, or spinning forward or backward when it strikes the OB, it has a perimeter velocity during collision. The friction is reduced because the point of contact between the balls isn't stationary, the perimeter (outer surface) of the CB is moving across the contact point on the OB. A sliding CB (stun shot) results in a stationary contact point between the balls for the duration of the collision. I'd say it's sort of like the old box on a ramp: Think of a heavy box on a steep ramp. The friction between the box and the ramp is greater when the box is stationary. It takes an effort to get the box moving, but once you get it moving the friction decreases with the momentum of the sliding box, and it slides on down the ramp with minimal effort. Maybe that's not a good example.:confused:
The relative speed between the surfaces during contact does have an effect, but it is not the main effect. For more info, see the throw draw/follow effects and maximum throw resource pages.

Regards,
Dave
 
FYI, a longer contact time does not necessarily result in a greater friction effect. The peak impact force is actually less with a longer contact time, so the friction force is less (acting over a longer time) with a softer shot. For more info, see the discussion on the tip contact time resource page.

The relative speed between the surfaces during contact does have an effect, but it is not the main effect. For more info, see the throw draw/follow effects and maximum throw resource pages.

Regards,
Dave

Thanks for the info/corrections. I was thinking of typical collision force logic, more inelastic type collisions I guess, assuming slower objects with more contact time would cause more throw due to friction. The angle of momentum is probably more of a factor with pool balls/elastic collisions. I'll read the resources later, and as always I'm sure to learn something.
 
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