What is your PSR?

[SpiderWebComm]

Interesting. Three intelligent people from different parts of the country with very different backgrounds come into this forum and suddenly we have 65 IQs. The only common thread is... you. What does that tell you?

Nice twisting and spinning job Danny Boy. But I'm not the common thread. The common thread is all of you TURN INTO 65 IQers when you're asked to accurately and concisely explain what you do in your "FEEL" non-aiming systems. You can't even string 3 complete sentences together but you can certainly make posts just like the one here.

If you go back and look, it was peaceful in here and there were some interesting conversations while you were banned.

A lot more peaceful and quiet in here when LOU was banned a couple of months for attacking Jay Helfert. In BOTH the aiming forum and the main forum. Lou should have been banned today along with denwhit for blatantly breaking the new rules. But I can see they aren't being enforced.

I don't think the letters CTE ever popped up. So, without you it is a nice place to discuss things. How about taking one for the team and banning yourself like JB did. The problem isn't CTE, it's you.

Nope! It's DAN WHITE, LOU FIGUEROA, BC21-BRIAN, and DEMWHIT. IF ALL OF YOU STAY COMPLETELY AWAY FROM STAN, ME, AND ESPECIALLY CTE THIS PLACE WILL BE REAL QUIET.

Carry on with your ranting and raving. We've all tried to discuss things civilly with you but it just isn't possible. Back in the bit bin with you... *plonk*

Thank you and I'm proud to be a part of your gesture. But you won't be able to control yourself and not a man of your word. It's just a short matter of time before you're on the attack again with your "innocent" ways. Lets see how long it takes to make one of your cutting posts either to/about me, Stan, or CTE.
I think it's right around the corner and "UNPLONK".

 

[lfigueroa]

The only one who really knows is Lou.
I think feel opens up more possibility for misjudgements in aim than other "systems"
You just have to be able to accept that fact that sometimes your feeling can be wrong.

I suppose it depends on your level of experience hitting pool balls and subsequent level of play. IOWs, generally speaking, the guy who was been hitting them for 50 years has a pretty good grasp on angles, speeds, and spins. The guy who's played for 10 years, not so much.

And besides, even with a system you have to use judgement (otherwise known as feel) to decide how much or this and how much of that to apply any given shot.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou has a interesting shooting style, I venture to say the interesting thing is eye manipulation.

Lou, you are using right eye for certain shots and left for others and a blend of both sometimes, correct? If you are shooting at the middle every time, I wonder if that was automatic or you figured out how to do it, because i hit the middle one time 2 months ago and it was pure luck.

I dont expect most to know what the hell im talking about but i suspect Lou does and i would bet on it but i wouldnt cry if i lost.

No eye manipulation.

I am aware of how my view of a shot will change depending on what PSR I'm using and I've tried to be more consistent in that regard but it has not been a priority. It probably will be eventually. My priority to date has been creating a setup that allows me to consistently drive the OB where I want and make the CB behave the way I want.

Lou Figueroa

 

[paultex]

No eye manipulation.

I am aware of how my view of a shot will change depending on what PSR I'm using and I've tried to be more consistent in that regard but it has not been a priority. It probably will be eventually. My priority to date has been creating a setup that allows me to consistently drive the OB where I want and make the CB behave the way I want.

Lou Figueroa

Are you left eye dominant? Or possibly neither? Does the way you shoot at address often produce a double cueball vision since its closest to you in the shot position?

I said this the other day to a player and I think it coincides with your last sentence, and that is, if you know where your stroke is going for any shot, then that will go a long way in beating this thing. The thing or "it" as Stan mentioned about my emails to him was me trying to figure out "pool" itself. That's why I don't do CTE but Stan's work about perception opened a big door in my head.

Would you agree that knowing stroke direction is basically the key? I personally believe it is but it's obviously not that simple in reality and that's where it gets very involved and I'll end it right there.

I like your shooting style and it's very reminiscent of what I'm doing now and that is developing the right eye and for me I have found it necessary and I theorized it's importance months ago but I had other steps to make first before actually knowing if the theory was correct. So far it's paying off and some very interesting things are happening now. I tend to stare or shift toward right eye in daily life and I believe that's a good thing because my left eye is so friggin dominant but I've also found in pool, most I ran into let that left eye pull them into incorrect alignments because I test them with certain shots to conclude my assertions. That's why I call it the left side tractor beam and it is the cause of missing certain shots before a player even gets down to address.

It's quite entertaining to watch as i too have been notoriously guilty of this experience and still am especially when tired or under pressure.

Any way, I think it's a big issue and maybe you would like to address it further if you like.

Thanks.

 

[lfigueroa]

Are you left eye dominant? Or possibly neither? Does the way you shoot at address often produce a double cueball vision since its closest to you in the shot position?

I said this the other day to a player and I think it coincides with your last sentence, and that is, if you know where your stroke is going for any shot, then that will go a long way in beating this thing. The thing or "it" as Stan mentioned about my emails to him was me trying to figure out "pool" itself. That's why I don't do CTE but Stan's work about perception opened a big door in my head.

Would you agree that knowing stroke direction is basically the key? I personally believe it is but it's obviously not that simple in reality and that's where it gets very involved and I'll end it right there.

I like your shooting style and it's very reminiscent of what I'm doing now and that is developing the right eye and for me I have found it necessary and I theorized it's importance months ago but I had other steps to make first before actually knowing if the theory was correct. So far it's paying off and some very interesting things are happening now. I tend to stare or shift toward right eye in daily life and I believe that's a good thing because my left eye is so friggin dominant but I've also found in pool, most I ran into let that left eye pull them into incorrect alignments because I test them with certain shots to conclude my assertions. That's why I call it the left side tractor beam and it is the cause of missing certain shots before a player even gets down to address.

It's quite entertaining to watch as i too have been notoriously guilty of this experience and still am especially when tired or under pressure.

Any way, I think it's a big issue and maybe you would like to address it further if you like.

Thanks.

I have no idea about my eye dominance.

Geno came through town, watched me run like 50, introduced himself and said I played well. Then did his thing with the foam balls and it just didn't make sense to me, or as I showed him, make any difference in my game. Regardless, I know "view" is important and try to incorporate producing a good view into whatever I'm doing.

As to stroke direction, perhaps I don't know what you mean by that but to me it's all about making the cue as close to an extension of your body as possible. So that if you think about pocketing a ball and making the CB come back straight, or a little to the right or left, you can make it happen almost naturally with great accuracy and consistency. That, to me, is the goal.

Lou Figueroa

 

[paultex]

You won't trap me.

CTE has always been. Hal Houle will forever get the credit for pioneering the phenomena. Having said that, Hal never presented all that he knew about CTE for various reasons. However, he did shed enough light on the phenomena that someone might be able to unlock it. I have done that and in the course of doing so, I have thoroughly defined it and refined it. My entire body of work devoted to the phenomena is known as CTE PRO ONE.

Is CTE mechanical?
No, CTE has nothing to do with machines but entirely to do with human vision and one's ability to align to what is seen in a very natural fluid-like manner.....

Stan Shuffett

Ok i can see the accuracy of your reply and thanks.

Is CTE PRO ONE mechanical as well as visual? I know you offer or suggest stance positions, two of them that eliminate or replace the need for a manual pivot or manual sweep, that is refined to a visual sweep and that takes one into one of the two stances.

I'm sure i left something out, but my question in effect is, does this system cover the broad range of physical shot relationships around the entire table? I assume it does because those two stances also align ones elbow out and in to offset, and this is my opinion, the visual disparity of left eye on the inside or outside of a angle.

I know there are other factors as well, but the eye position is just one example and im not sure if it's the main cause for some of the disparity I and many other players experience as well with thick and thin bias.

But my other question and was more of the main crux to this conversation, was lets say when you have to stretch and reach out for a shot, how do you deal with this? Surely CTE does not remedy the situation but maybe pro1 does?

I'm not asking because i need an answer, i have much of this stuff figured out and ive found its due to body position and how it skews the stroke. Its night and day worse on a 6x12 snooker table.

People want to make balls in general and maybe not want to become pro level. I know my runs have stopped because of some uncomfortable position where knowledge beats you and not because one "sucks" or whatever. The more you miss in this game, the more one sucks but i dont see it that way but nobody really listens. I say this pool thing is not mt everest on mars nor is it mt everest, its just a tough mountain no different than trying to play a musical instrument at a high level.

Do you have any advice or suggestions on these matters? Because i generally never hear it being addressed, yet i think these things account for 30% of missing. Even if it was 10%, it should be talked about a lot. 10% is huge.

Thanks.

 

[stan shuffett]

Ok i can see the accuracy of your reply and thanks.

Is CTE PRO ONE mechanical as well as visual? I know you offer or suggest stance positions, two of them that eliminate or replace the need for a manual pivot or manual sweep, that is refined to a visual sweep and that takes one into one of the two stances.

I'm sure i left something out, but my question in effect is, does this system cover the broad range of physical shot relationships around the entire table? I assume it does because those two stances also align ones elbow out and in to offset, and this is my opinion, the visual disparity of left eye on the inside or outside of a angle.

I know there are other factors as well, but the eye position is just one example and im not sure if it's the main cause for some of the disparity I and many other players experience as well with thick and thin bias.

But my other question and was more of the main crux to this conversation, was lets say when you have to stretch and reach out for a shot, how do you deal with this? Surely CTE does not remedy the situation but maybe pro1 does?

I'm not asking because i need an answer, i have much of this stuff figured out and ive found its due to body position and how it skews the stroke. Its night and day worse on a 6x12 snooker table.

People want to make balls in general and maybe not want to become pro level. I know my runs have stopped because of some uncomfortable position where knowledge beats you and not because one "sucks" or whatever. The more you miss in this game, the more one sucks but i dont see it that way but nobody really listens. I say this pool thing is not mt everest on mars nor is it mt everest, its just a tough mountain no different than trying to play a musical instrument at a high level.

Do you have any advice or suggestions on these matters? Because i generally never hear it being addressed, yet i think these things account for 30% of missing. Even if it was 10%, it should be talked about a lot. 10% is huge.

Thanks.

I thought I was clear. CTE is not mechanical.

For stretch shots, I see and align. No different from a non stretch.

CTE and Pro I are the same- visually....see and align.

What accounts for missing is not knowing where to put one's vision for seeing Cb OB relations. Pool is a visual game. Gets your eyes right and the stroke can follow so much more easily.

Stan Shuffett

 

[paultex]

I have no idea about my eye dominance.

Geno came through town, watched me run like 50, introduced himself and said I played well. Then did his thing with the foam balls and it just didn't make sense to me, or as I showed him, make any difference in my game. Regardless, I know "view" is important and try to incorporate producing a good view into whatever I'm doing.

As to stroke direction, perhaps I don't know what you mean by that but to me it's all about making the cue as close to an extension of your body as possible. So that if you think about pocketing ball and make the CB come back straight, or a little to the right or left, you can make it happen almost naturally with great accuracy and consistency. That, to me, is the goal.

Lou Figueroa

yes, thats what i meant. To execute what you said requires a particular stroke direction in general but i also know it can be offset with shot alignment or visual offset or bridge shift etc etc etc and i think those choices can vary depending on the player and i use many of them and invent others because I have to.

I think a combination of the variables must be incorporated by most if not all players. Theres funny positions on the table that make it hard to draw a ball back straight or off to the right a hair, but when someone shoots more upright like you, Ive found a lot of those problems go away because the stroke is freed up and in its same position more often. That upright stroke has a lot of benefits as well as producing a more level stroke. You lose on aim depending on style, but ive found it to be real good because you can see "path" better.

Many of those old school straight pool players played upright if im not mistaken.

Any way, i got to offset everything, i cant shoot the middle, my eyes need an exorcism. It looks like you can though. Does your nine ball game or longer shots suffer with that style?

What are foam balls?

For the record, I didnt think you were as good as you are, based on your one pocket match and the few shots i saw and you were playing Barton even up. I figured you were both the same level.

You and Stan should play 7 ahead one pocket and stream it. Ya'll be arguing too much. Go drill his ass or get drilled, who cares, pool will be better off either way and then like most combatants, both sides feel ok about things and its always productive.

Thanks.

 

[lfigueroa]

yes, thats what i meant. To execute what you said requires a particular stroke direction in general but i also know it can be offset with shot alignment or visual offset or bridge shift etc etc etc and i think those choices can vary depending on the player and i use many of them and invent others because I have to.

I think a combination of the variables must be incorporated by most if not all players. Theres funny positions on the table that make it hard to draw a ball back straight or off to the right a hair, but when someone shoots more upright like you, Ive found a lot of those problems go away because the stroke is freed up and in its same position more often. That upright stroke has a lot of benefits as well as producing a more level stroke. You lose on aim depending on style, but ive found it to be real good because you can see "path" better.

Many of those old school straight pool players played upright if im not mistaken.

Any way, i got to offset everything, i cant shoot the middle, my eyes need an exorcism. It looks like you can though. Does your nine ball game or longer shots suffer with that style?

What are foam balls?

For the record, I didnt think you were as good as you are, based on your one pocket match and the few shots i saw and you were playing Barton even up. I figured you were both the same level.

You and Stan should play 7 ahead one pocket and stream it. Ya'll be arguing too much. Go drill his ass or get drilled, who cares, pool will be better off either way and then like most combatants, both sides feel ok about things and its always productive.

Thanks.

I think, but am not sure, we're talking about similar things but perhaps using a different vocabulary.

The foam balls are what Geno uses to diagnose and demonstrate his aiming theory. Basically he uses them as oversized pool balls to help determine your dominate eye and how to max that out.

My upright stance is an outgrowth of watching Mosconi and reading his blue and red books one time too many in my youth. In them he directs players to grasp their sticks just a few inches behind the balance point and if you do that you end up with a more upright stance compared to what many modern day players do.

My 9ball game is just fine but I don't play it much because everyone in St. Louis prefers 1pocket. I don't own a jump stick and rarely if ever carry a break cue.

My match with John, well, all I can say is: a $10,000 bet following 20 years of online grief will pucker you up if you're basically a $10/$20 a game player like me. Frankly, given the conditions and playing on a tight table being streamed, I was grateful to be able to hit the end rail.

Lou Figueroa

 

[paultex]

I thought I was clear. CTE is not mechanical.

For stretch shots, I see and align. No different from a non stretch.

CTE and Pro I are the same- visually....see and align.

What accounts for missing is not knowing where to put one's vision for seeing Cb OB relations. Pool is a visual game. Gets your eyes right and the stroke can follow so much more easily.

Stan Shuffett

I know and I thought I was clear as well about the difference between CTE and CTE pro1. It's cool and I get it.

Ok see and align, I'll take that into consideration.

Question:

EXAMPLE, when stretched out and the visual and warm up strokes appear in line, when a redirect occurs to the right and miss hit the cb, is it the visual, if incorrect in reality but correct in vision, powerful enough to redirect the stroke?

I believe it's mechanical as in kinesiology terms but I do know the eyes can influence final direction as well. But in this case of stretching out, im not quite sure and I saw Ronnie O'sullivan do the exact same thing but it's as if he knew it was going to happen and simply allowed for it.

As I'm sure you know, in snooker, I don't care what shot it is, you can't mess around with any sort of sloppiness or nonchalant stroking or else you can miss insanely easy shots hanging in the jaws. So, I don't think he was just being sloppy. It was distinct and I've encountered and witnessed this dilemma in many cases.

I just don't know for sure what the cause is and have no evidence if its vision or stroke.

Thanks

 

[Tony_in_MD]

If that is entirely true then there would be no top players in their 20's. But I would think you would agree that there is more then just time alone involved.

I suppose it depends on your level of experience hitting pool balls and subsequent level of play. IOWs, generally speaking, the guy who was been hitting them for 50 years has a pretty good grasp on angles, speeds, and spins. The guy who's played for 10 years, not so much.

And besides, even with a system you have to use judgement (otherwise known as feel) to decide how much or this and how much of that to apply any given shot.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Bobkitty]

I
My 9ball game is just fine but I don't play it much because everyone in St. Louis prefers 1pocket. I don't own a jump stick and rarely if ever carry a break cue.

My match with John, well, all I can say is: a $10,000 bet following 20 years of online grief will pucker you up if you're basically a $10/$20 a game player like me. Frankly, given the conditions and playing on a tight table being streamed, I was grateful to be able to hit the end rail.

Lou Figueroa

The only thing I've heard about that match is a little bit with you and Stan in the last six months on here. Is there a link to that game you can provide?

 

[Tony_in_MD]

The only thing I've heard about that match is a little bit with you and Stan in the last six months on here. Is there a link to that game you can provide?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYTZVK_gK7k

 

[lfigueroa]

If that is entirely true then there would be no top players in their 20's. But I would think you would agree that there is more then just time alone involved.

Well, I did say "generally speaking."

Of course there are going to be outliers, like say SW. But, once again, *generally speaking* I usually feast playing guys half my age. There's a reason David Mamet wrote, "Old age and treachery will always beat youth and exuberance."

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYTZVK_gK7k

I have the whole thing on a thumb drive and keep meaning to put together a 20 minute highlight reel so no one has to slog through 9 hours of that.

If you search "JB" and "Lou" in the months leading up to the match you can still find a few threads that haven't been deleted. If you're so inclined here's a written recap:

Part 1:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=358171

Part 2:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=358431

Part 3:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=358699

Good times, lol.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Bobkitty]

I have the whole thing on a thumb drive and keep meaning to put together a 20 minute highlight reel so no one has to slog through 9 hours of that.

If you search "JB" and "Lou" in the months leading up to the match you can still find a few threads that haven't been deleted. If you're so inclined here's a written recap:

Part 1:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=358171

Part 2:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=358431

Part 3:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=358699

Good times, lol.

Lou Figueroa

Many thanks.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

If you search "JB" and "Lou" in the months leading up to the match you can still find a few threads that haven't been deleted. If you're so inclined here's a written recap:

Part 1:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=358171

Part 2:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=358431

Part 3:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=358699

Good times, lol.

Lou Figueroa

Right, lol. What do these threads have to do with the AIMING FORUM. Here's what, NOTHING. They don't belong here! That's why most of those threads have been totally deleted from the website by the mods because they were and are incendiary.

It's Lou being Lou feeding his ego and crowing about the end result with him as the hero being carried off on the shoulders of sycophants then and now.

Nothing more than an instigating post that should be in the MAIN FORUM or on
onepocket.org. Oh that's right, Lou has a lifetime ban there for being "Lou".

Yeah, I know. This is MY fault for telling it like it is and saying what I did. Lou did nothing.

Total innocence for the Fabulous 4. Guaranteed they'll all be in here next.

Who is going to be second person to post from the Fab 4 and how many to follow?

 

[paultex]

Well, I did say "generally speaking."

Of course there are going to be outliers, like say SW. But, once again, *generally speaking* I usually feast playing guys half my age. There's a reason David Mamet wrote, "Old age and treachery will always beat youth and exuberance."

Lou Figueroa

Yep, the classic case of bucknife vs a razor. The bucknife is not as sharp as the razor but the razor dulls out quick and the bucknife keeps going on and doing its thing.

However, in recent times, these razors are now winning majors on the pga tour and other venues like pool, which i thought was not likely 30 years ago.

2 new realities now, youth can kick ass now but old age has been raised another 10 years. Tom Brady may prove it can be done up to age 50, who knows now. I suspect a 60 year old may win a us open or major in pool.

I dont see why it cant be done.

 

[paultex]

I think, but am not sure, we're talking about similar things but perhaps using a different vocabulary.

The foam balls are what Geno uses to diagnose and demonstrate his aiming theory. Basically he uses them as oversized pool balls to help determine your dominate eye and how to max that out.

My upright stance is an outgrowth of watching Mosconi and reading his blue and red books one time too many in my youth. In them he directs players to grasp their sticks just a few inches behind the balance point and if you do that you end up with a more upright stance compared to what many modern day players do.

My 9ball game is just fine but I don't play it much because everyone in St. Louis prefers 1pocket. I don't own a jump stick and rarely if ever carry a break cue.

My match with John, well, all I can say is: a $10,000 bet following 20 years of online grief will pucker you up if you're basically a $10/$20 a game player like me. Frankly, given the conditions and playing on a tight table being streamed, I was grateful to be able to hit the end rail.

Lou Figueroa

Ok, then all things considered, you played remarkably well. I gauged your game based on just a few shots but i now understand the value of a more upright stance. Your mechanics at objective glance is not ideal, but i dismissed it as something worse and it certainly isnt and thats where i have learned something and im not going to be milky between my legs and say ive been humbled.

I call it the way i see it and the bottomline, i made a ignorant judgement in error that could have cost me in life and i rarely make those mistakes but rarely aint good enough.

Thanks for the info.

I meant to ask another question but i cant remember now. I'm late for the geometric gulag.

Have a nice day.

 

[paultex]

Lou, why do you break on the left side of the rack for one pocket? It's a question, not a critique.

To me, it always seemed strange for a right hander to pick the other side which is often done and im the same way because I figure there must be a reason. Easier to bank from that side or something?