Sampaio - Premier - Curiosity

[MMinMN]

Hello all,

Newby here.

For those that have familiarity with the Sampaio Cues, I have a question regarding the Premier model.

I had owned one of these in the past(70's-80's) unfortunately that one was relieved from my possession in the early 90's. It was a very dark rosewood base, with all the typical MOP, Ivory filigree.
In the years since I have been casually on the hunt for a replacement.

Last week I stumbled on one advertised on CL, and made the acquisition.

The owner was 82, and claimed to have purchased it new. I have no doubt about the the authenticity of the manufacturer, all the right pieces and appropriate wear are there, ivory butt, ivory ferrule, MOP is correct, bumper is correct, joint is correct, flaking as my original was. Stamped Sampaio/Made in Portugal on both base and shaft.(I've seen the Taiwan versions)
Now here is the odd to me thing. This cue has a base that is a much lighter hue(medium brown) then any I had seen in the past which appear nearly black(will add pics this weekend)

Has anyone seen a lighter version before?

regards,

Mike in Minnesota

 

[Chopdoc]

Welcome to the forum!

Yes, I have seen lighter versions. I am a collector and have observed them closely.

None of these have been faked as far as I have seen. There are Asian "copies" but you can easily tell.

The Adam Japan versions of Sampaio designs are probably worth more anyway.

.

 

[Chopdoc]

Oh...and there is no ivory in those cues, it is plastic, and the mother of pearl is plastic.

I tell you this with certainty.

.

 

[Cuebuddy]

Chopdoc nailed it. I have seen only one Premier that was lighter although the Astro which is nearly as gaudy was always a lighter wood. I have never seen one that used Ivory anywhere in the butt section. The shaft certainly could of had a Ivory ferrule put on it at some time. Post pics when you can and welcome to the board.

 

[MMinMN]

Oh...and there is no ivory in those cues, it is plastic, and the mother of pearl is plastic.

I tell you this with certainty.

.

That is interesting, I just had a new tip put on it. The ferrule was confirmed as ivory.
I had never heard of the MOP being anything other than that, hmmmmm

 

[Chopdoc]

That is interesting, I just had a new tip put on it. The ferrule was confirmed as ivory.
I had never heard of the MOP being anything other than that, hmmmmm

If the ferrule is ivory it was replaced. They had a typical fiber ferule that was standard for that period.

The MOP in Samapaio cues was plastic.

.
.

 

[MMinMN]

If the ferrule is ivory it was replaced. They had a typical fiber ferule that was standard for that period.

The MOP in Samapaio cues was plastic.

.
.

So the info from Blue Book of Pool Cue Values is inacurate?

https://bluebookofpoolcuevalues.com/Pool_Cue_Values/Pool_Cue_Manufacturer.aspx?id=SAMPAIO_BILLIARD_CUES

All of their cues were hand-carved and hand-polished rosewood with real mother-of-pearl inlays, and genuine ivory and ebony trim.

 

[Sealegs50]

So the info from Blue Book of Pool Cue Values is inacurate?

https://bluebookofpoolcuevalues.com/Pool_Cue_Values/Pool_Cue_Manufacturer.aspx?id=SAMPAIO_BILLIARD_CUES

All of their cues were hand-carved and hand-polished rosewood with real mother-of-pearl inlays, and genuine ivory and ebony trim.

I don't see an inconsistency. Your quoted statement appears related to the pre-Shimel billiard cues.

"Today, the billiard cues are much more popular than the pool cues with collectors because of the hand craftsmanship, exotic hand-carving and use of ivory and mother-of-pearl."

 

[MMinMN]

I don't see an inconsistency. Your quoted statement appears related to the pre-Shimel billiard cues.

"Today, the billiard cues are much more popular than the pool cues with collectors because of the hand craftsmanship, exotic hand-carving and use of ivory and mother-of-pearl."

Are we to assume that your quoted statement is for cues manufactured with Shimel's involvement? If so, it also mentions those elements(ivory & MOP)

I certainly am not an expert on either of these garnishments, but that was always my understanding of the components used in the construction of "true" Sampaio cues. But it wouldn't be the first time I've been misinformed :wink:

Regards,

Mike

 

[Chopdoc]

That is interesting, I just had a new tip put on it. The ferrule was confirmed as ivory.
I had never heard of the MOP being anything other than that, hmmmmm

I could always be wrong of course.

I have handled a number of them, and have some in my collection, and the only ones I found ivory in were the billiard cues, not the pool cues marketed in the US.

But there are lots of variation in manufacturing. An example of this in the Sampaio pool cues is the bumper. The earlier ones had a red bumper, the later ones black.

I can't see you pictures by the way since you are using a free Photobucket account. They changed their policies.

As for the fact that you never heard of fake mother of pearl, that is no less than astounding. Real mother of pearl is now restricted because certain species are protected. Further, mother of pearl and abolone are commonly interchanged terms which are not the same material and most people cannot tell the difference.

Beyond that, mother of peal is difficult to work with in a production environment because it easily overheats when working it.

At any rate I think your question is answered.

 

[MMinMN]

I could always be wrong of course.

I have handled a number of them, and have some in my collection, and the only ones I found ivory in were the billiard cues, not the pool cues marketed in the US.

Ahhh, very interesting.

But there are lots of variation in manufacturing. An example of this in the Sampaio pool cues is the bumper. The earlier ones had a red bumper, the later ones black.

I can't see you pictures by the way since you are using a free Photobucket account. They changed their policies.

Didn't know that, do you have a recommendation for a common photo hosting site?

As for the fact that you never heard of fake mother of pearl, that is no less than astounding.

I was referring to the Sampaio, not fake MOP

Real mother of pearl is now restricted because certain species are protected. Further, mother of pearl and abolone are commonly interchanged terms which are not the same material and most people cannot tell the difference.

Beyond that, mother of peal is difficult to work with in a production environment because it easily overheats when working it.

At any rate I think your question is answered.

Yes, I would agree - the lighter version I have is not unique.

Additional observations:

It's also interesting that every Ebay(and other sites) adv. for Sampaio's includes both elements in the description(Ivory usually with asterisks).

I'm not claiming they would be the ultimate authority, but they do pride themselves on accuracy.

I think its time to hit an expert locally(thinking jeweler) for the answers on Ivory/MOP

Thank again, I appreciate the information

Regards,

Mike

 

[Chopdoc]

There are many inaccuracies in Ebay listings of pool cues. Many.

As for how such thing get perpetuated, it is by simple copying.

Many old cues with anything white are listed as having ivory. Often they are $10 Taiwan imports.

Same goes for leather (vinyl), mother of pearl (plastic), ebony (painted), inlays (decals), vintage (no idea of age), and more.

Ebay announced they were hiring experts to monitor such thing but there is as yet no evidence they have for pool cues.

If they pride themselves on accuracy it is mere lip service.

I suggest using Google to host pics. If you have a Google email address there are many benefits, including image hosting. But there are others.

 

[MMinMN]

Sampaio - Premier

Photo Group 1

 

[MMinMN]

Welcome to the forum!

Yes, I have seen lighter versions. I am a collector and have observed them closely.

None of these have been faked as far as I have seen. There are Asian "copies" but you can easily tell.

The Adam Japan versions of Sampaio designs are probably worth more anyway.

.

Sorry for the delay, can you provide more detail on the Adam version, hadn't heard of that Adam made one until recently