Hypothetical Question - What would you do?

easy-e said:
I don’t blame the A player at all. As long as the D players keep riding the 9 whenever possible, I’ll keep 3 fouling them.:thumbup:
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Agreed, that is a completely different situation when your opponent, regardless of what level they play, is riding the 9-ball every chance they get! Then you do whatever you have to do to win! If they get upset after you've 3-fouled them, you let them know that you only did it to teach them a lesson, because of the way they were constantly shooting very low percentage shots on the 9-ball .
 
PhilosopherKing said:
Sure, if I'm competing at skeet shooting, and the other guy is holding his gun stock-end out, I'm going to tell him.
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Yes, if my opponent is going to literally kill himself or those around him, I will warn. So, if my pool playing opponent is shooting at the wrong ball and it is attached to a detonator for a room full of explosives I will let him know... if it's a friendly game ;)
 
ChrisinNC said:
Agreed, that is a completely different situation when your opponent, regardless of what level they play, is riding the 9-ball every chance they get! Then you do whatever you have to do to win! If they get upset after you've 3-fouled them, you let them know that you only did it to teach them a lesson, because of the way they were constantly shooting very low percentage shots on the 9-ball .
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How about just a reasonable set of rules...for everybody.
If you have handicaps, you could abolish the 3-foul rule for certain matches where the
gap is huge....say if one is the best and ten is the worst, if the gap is five or more...
....no 3-foul.
 
ChrisinNC said:
Agreed, that is a completely different situation when your opponent, regardless of what level they play, is riding the 9-ball every chance they get! Then you do whatever you have to do to win! If they get upset after you've 3-fouled them, you let them know that you only did it to teach them a lesson, because of the way they were constantly shooting very low percentage shots on the 9-ball .
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No need to tell them anything. Do folks make a habit of telling the loser why they lost? I dunno if that is the best thing either. Why would I need to explain why I wanted to win? Seems a tad silly to me,but if it works fine, but please don't tell me why you beat me, because at that moment I really don't care ;)
 
FranCrimi said:
You're wrong. It's not an issue for a player to have to decide. A tournament director should protect the players from having to make unfair decisions like this.

In asking the question, "Should I interrupt or should I not interrupt my opponent," the TD should make it clear to the players that the answer should always be not interrupt unless the interruption is warranted by the rules. Then there would be no moral issue at all.
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FranCrimi said:
It's absolutely not an allowable reason to interrupt your opponent, regardless of who is on the receiving end.

Another classic example is when a fan favorite player shows up a few minutes past the 15 minute forfeit time and the TD asks the opponent if they would mind playing the match.

If a player finds himself faced with this type of moral dilemma in a match, then the TD or LO needs to work harder at his job. Among other things, his job is to prevent players to have to face unnecessary moral dilemmas. He does this in several ways: 1.) Enforce the rules that are on the books. 2) Use player meetings effectively for discussions, and not just for a calcutta or the draw. 3.) Address issues as they come up and even periodically hand out discussion sheets to players of issues that occur and their resolution.
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Well said, your statement should be definitive.
 
FranCrimi said:
It's absolutely not an allowable reason to interrupt your opponent, regardless of who is on the receiving end.

Another classic example is when a fan favorite player shows up a few minutes past the 15 minute forfeit time and the TD asks the opponent if they would mind playing the match.

If a player finds himself faced with this type of moral dilemma in a match, then the TD or LO needs to work harder at his job. Among other things, his job is to prevent players to have to face unnecessary moral dilemmas. He does this in several ways: 1.) Enforce the rules that are on the books. 2) Use player meetings effectively for discussions, and not just for a calcutta or the draw. 3.) Address issues as they come up and even periodically hand out discussion sheets to players of issues that occur and their resolution.
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I don't see how your example is at all relevant to the situation of the original post.

Where is the 'moral dilemma' in interrupting your opponent shooting the wrong ball?
 
ChrisinNC said:
Agreed, that is a completely different situation when your opponent, regardless of what level they play, is riding the 9-ball every chance they get! Then you do whatever you have to do to win! If they get upset after you've 3-fouled them, you let them know that you only did it to teach them a lesson, because of the way they were constantly shooting very low percentage shots on the 9-ball .
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On the other hand.... If a player who has never run out a rack of nine ball tries to win by running out from the one, he is one of: stupid, confused, ignorant, lame, no good at games, very poor at math.

When a weak player is facing an insurmountable obstacle, like drawing a foot from the one to get a shot on the two, he should immediately think about how to get the money in motion. That is his best chance to win. He is not Shane Van Boening and he shouldn't try to play like him, or at least not in competition.
 
Bob Jewett said:
On the other hand.... If a player who has never run out a rack of nine ball tries to win by running out from the one, he is one of: stupid, confused, ignorant, lame, no good at games, very poor at math.

When a weak player is facing an insurmountable obstacle, like drawing a foot from the one to get a shot on the two, he should immediately think about how to get the money in motion. That is his best chance to win. He is not Shane Van Boening and he shouldn't try to play like him, or at least not in competition.
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I totally agree - that as far as law of averages, for a weaker player, they need to ride the 9 every chance they get. It's just nerve racking for a better player to play against someone who can take you out with one lucky roll at any given time!
 
FranCrimi said:
You're wrong. It's not an issue for a player to have to decide. A tournament director should protect the players from having to make unfair decisions like this.

In asking the question, "Should I interrupt or should I not interrupt my opponent," the TD should make it clear to the players that the answer should always be not interrupt unless the interruption is warranted by the rules. Then there would be no moral issue at all.
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The moral issue remains; it simply forces one set of players to compromise their morals under threat of punishment.

Regarding the forfeit deadline: If I draw Efren in a tournament and he shows-up a few minutes late and is forfeited no questions asked, I'm going to be pissed, he's going to be pissed, and the fans are going to be pissed.

The opponent should have a say unless time absolutely will not permit.

The rules should be strictly enforced when needed to prevent impropriety and prevent players from exploiting certain situations, but I just don't see the utility in enforcing them when they do more harm than good.

Rules for the sake of rules is counterproductive.
 
Bob Jewett said:
On the other hand.... If a player who has never run out a rack of nine ball tries to win by running out from the one, he is one of: stupid, confused, ignorant, lame, no good at games, very poor at math.

When a weak player is facing an insurmountable obstacle, like drawing a foot from the one to get a shot on the two, he should immediately think about how to get the money in motion. That is his best chance to win. He is not Shane Van Boening and he shouldn't try to play like him, or at least not in competition.
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So, has anyone who isn't stupid, ignorant, confused, lame, no good at games, or poor at math ever ran a complete rack of 9-ball?

How'd they do it?
 
PhilosopherKing said:
So, has anyone who isn't stupid, ignorant, confused, lame, no good at games, or poor at math ever ran a complete rack of 9-ball?

How'd they do it?
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Are you sure your syntax is what you had intended? Are you bothered by rhetorical questions as much as I am?
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Yes, if my opponent is going to literally kill himself or those around him, I will warn. So, if my pool playing opponent is shooting at the wrong ball and it is attached to a detonator for a room full of explosives I will let him know... if it's a friendly game ;)
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This post has me rolling!! I love how this thread became about life and death. :D
 
ChrisinNC said:
I totally agree - that as far as law of averages, for a weaker player, they need to ride the 9 every chance they get. It's just nerve racking for a better player to play against someone who can take you out with one lucky roll at any given time!
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So, you answered your own question. If the weak player is riding the 9 every chance he gets. Then the better player needs to neutralize that. And if he plays safe, pretty hard to ride the nine if you can't kick ;) Thus, the good player just stopped the banger from getting lucky. Sooner or later he's going to realize he needs to run out instead of banging the 9 ball in. Actually, folks are helping him, not hurting him. And if he eventually quits in disgust because he loses so much, it was never meant to be ;)
 
ChicagoRJ said:
So, you answered your own question. If the weak player is riding the 9 every chance he gets. Then the better player needs to neutralize that. And if he plays safe, pretty hard to ride the nine if you can't kick ;) Thus, the good player just stopped the banger from getting lucky. Sooner or later he's going to realize he needs to run out instead of banging the 9 ball in. Actually, folks are helping him, not hurting him. And if he eventually quits in disgust because he loses so much, it was never meant to be ;)
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I didnt run a rack of nine ball for over a year when i first started, yet people would advise me to try to run out- It doesn't take a genius to realize where the better odds were. If i had a solid shot on the 9, it was going for a ride. Id have to be on the 7 or 8 before i could run out maybe 30% of the time.
 
It's always best to take the high road and behave in a professional manner. If your opponent fouls, use good judgement and politely call it out. Context is everything.
 
I would always let my opponent know he was about to shoot the wrong ball. Always have. It doesn't matter whether he would do the same or not. It doesn't matter if it was for money or the championships. To me, it's a question of sportsmanship and my own morality. Life is too short to sweat the small stuff. As I see it, we are all in the same race together. That race is the human race.
 
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