Roll-out ( 2 fouls, ball in hand )

[Black-Balled]

Ask him why he won't play call shot/call safe either!

Edit: I can't see his reply, I've had him on ignore for years, due somewhat to his attitude toward this topic. Usual whine is: "Why should you get to push out when I play a good safe?" My reply is usually: "Why should't I get to push out when you miss the pocket by two diamonds?".

Coz i will guarantee i will miss by 2 diamonds far less than I will play safe within inches of my target, duh? Surely, not with a high enough frequency to design a rule set that would allow you to push every time you come to the table.

Your contention MIGHT hold water for low level players, but really, they play so bad that it really doesn't matter what rules are used.

 

[Michael Andros]

Holy fuhk. Do I need to be concerned about this being a discussion you are prepared to enter?

Please address the question,
Why should the incoming player be allowed to push from there?

In the context:
firing a bank in and running cb around table to play short side shape on a ball that hides the next player from the banked ball, if I miss.

I get to roll out because that's the rules. If you don't like the rules, I suggest you play one foul. As far as wondering if I'm able to "discuss" anything you might come up with, I'll politely suggest you worry about yourself in that respect. And then dig reallllyyyyyy deep, there kiddo. :grin-square:

 

[Michael Andros]

Coz i will guarantee i will miss by 2 diamonds far less than I will play safe within inches of my target, duh? Surely, not with a high enough frequency to design a rule set that would allow you to push every time you come to the table.

Your contention MIGHT hold water for low level players, but really, they play so bad that it really doesn't matter what rules are used.

Wow! I can actually put you on ignore? THERE'S an idea! DONE! :grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:

 

[Black-Balled]

I get to roll out because that's the rules. If you don't like the rules, I suggest you play one foul. As far as wondering if I'm able to "discuss" anything you might come up with, I'll politely suggest you worry about yourself in that respect. And then dig reallllyyyyyy deep, there kiddo. :grin-square:

Amen...

but as far as justifying why pushout is better than 1foul, you haven't responded to my question.

'Better player wins' is a crock of it, if the rule set ties one player's laces together.

 

[Michael Andros]

Ask him why he won't play call shot/call safe either!

Edit: I can't see his reply, I've had him on ignore for years, due somewhat to his attitude toward this topic. Usual whine is: "Why should you get to push out when I play a good safe?" My reply is usually: "Why should't I get to push out when you miss the pocket by two diamonds?".

Thanks Push! I had no idea you could even PUT anyone on ignore here! Man, I love learning new stuff.

 

[Black-Balled]

Wow! I can actually put you on ignore? THERE'S an idea! DONE! :grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:

Pussies!!!

I am on a 1 game winning streak. Wooooohooooked.

 

[Gunn_Slinger]

Holy fuhk. Do I need to be concerned about this being a discussion you are prepared to enter?

Please address the question,
Why should the incoming player be allowed to push from there?

In the context:
firing a bank in and running cb around table to play short side shape on a ball that hides the next player from the banked ball, if I miss.

Answer: because its the rule in pushout.
The great Freddy Boggs once said " If you change the rules enough
we will all be playing ping-pong" !

 

[Michael Andros]

Answer: because its the rule in pushout.
The great Freddy Boggs once said " If you change the rules enough
we will all be playing ping-pong" !

Amen, brother.



"My serve!!!"

 

[Black-Balled]

Answer: because its the rule in pushout.
The great Freddy Boggs once said " If you change the rules enough
we will all be playing ping-pong" !

Now sir; you know I know better to argue with you...!

But.

It makes no sense that the rule should be to always have the option to push after your opponent shoots. Safes are played into, far more often than lucked into.

 

[Black-Balled]

Winning.

Tiger blood.

 

[Paul Schofield]

Paul Schofield would be a good host for this. He did mention how much he likes playing this way. Put on a one day event and let us know how it went.

I think I may have been misunderstood. I liked playing push-out while getting paid after every game. Push-out was all about protecting your money. When playing this way died out, so did the action. Push-Out and gambling went hand-in-hand. I see it in my own room. Standard $20 Nine-Ball was an every day occurrence among players of all calibers in the 70s and early 80s. The losing player (in his head) could always "play one more game". He might get his nose open and lose another 10! No more. Players now do sets for $20. Playing sets, a losing player does not want to commit to another set and who can blame him. It is darn near impossible to get a player's nose open playing sets. Push-out was all about gambling and does not lend itself to tournaments.

I always said "I am not kicking at balls for the cash" and I have not. Everyone else can do whatever they want. I just stopped playing...more than 30 years ago.

Gambling at Nine-Ball will never come back with One-Foul.

 

[Chip Roberson]

we always played 2 by the same man. my main argument for pushout was the ability to spot ur opponents weakness. I practiced shooting off the rail & would push to that shot. good long rail bankers would push to that shot. like in tennis if someones forehand is weaker his opponent keeps testing it.u either improve ur weakness or get used to sleepin in the car.i think the better player has advantage playin pushout. I was told by a credible source that the east coast boys came up with it cuz the southern based players were shootin their nutz off. buddy, earl,jerry brock,billy johnson etc. . just ask buddy what he thinks.

I agree with Tim, we didn't kick at balls for our dough,,,! Push out brought the cream to the top quickly. Player can get lucky in one shot foul and win the match, two shot foul and the better player will show more quickly.

 

[buckshotshoey]

I think I may have been misunderstood. I liked playing push-out while getting paid after every game. Push-out was all about protecting your money. When playing this way died out, so did the action. Push-Out and gambling went hand-in-hand. I see it in my own room. Standard $20 Nine-Ball was an every day occurrence among players of all calibers in the 70s and early 80s. The losing player (in his head) could always "play one more game". He might get his nose open and lose another 10! No more. Players now do sets for $20. Playing sets, a losing player does not want to commit to another set and who can blame him. It is darn near impossible to get a player's nose open playing sets. Push-out was all about gambling and does not lend itself to tournaments.

I always said "I am not kicking at balls for the cash" and I have not. Everyone else can do whatever they want. I just stopped playing...more than 30 years ago.

Gambling at Nine-Ball will never come back with One-Foul.

Finally! I starting to see the light! I just play in local tournaments. So this wouldn't be for me anyway. Why does pool always have to be about taking someone's money? It can't just be about enjoying the game. I think you hit on why the general population loaths pool and pool players in general.

 

[Michael Andros]

I think I may have been misunderstood. I liked playing push-out while getting paid after every game. Push-out was all about protecting your money. When playing this way died out, so did the action. Push-Out and gambling went hand-in-hand. I see it in my own room. Standard $20 Nine-Ball was an every day occurrence among players of all calibers in the 70s and early 80s. The losing player (in his head) could always "play one more game". He might get his nose open and lose another 10! No more. Players now do sets for $20. Playing sets, a losing player does not want to commit to another set and who can blame him. It is darn near impossible to get a player's nose open playing sets. Push-out was all about gambling and does not lend itself to tournaments.

I always said "I am not kicking at balls for the cash" and I have not. Everyone else can do whatever they want. I just stopped playing...more than 30 years ago.

Gambling at Nine-Ball will never come back with One-Foul.

Sad but true, Paul.

We still played sets back then, though. But as often as not it was 4 or 5 ahead and not a race. But, at least half the time, if not more, it was by the game. I've mentioned this in another thread here, but one of my most vivid memories was watching Mike Carella bust Big Bob Osborne at Baker's in Tampa over the course of 3 days, by the game.

One of the saddest things to me is, that between just the nut you have to crack these days, with the cost of everything ( even given the relative nature of inflation ), and the over-all fact no one gambles anymore ( for a lot of reasons, I think, though I'm not quite sure just what they all are ), is the death of the road player. Used to be, not 2 weeks would go by that a road runner or two, usually, but not always, with a staker, would walk in the pool room. Doesn't happen anymore. Ever. Ok... maybe once in a blue moon. But compared to 40 years ago? To 1978? There *is* no comparison. There's just no one out there scufflin' around anymore. Yeah, sure, there's a few. But nothing even close to what it once was. And it's sad. It just is.

 

[Michael Andros]

Finally! I starting to see the light! I just play in local tournaments. So this wouldn't be for me anyway. Why does pool always have to be about taking someone's money? It can't just be about enjoying the game. I think you hit on why the general population loaths pool and pool players in general.

Buck Shot -

Gambling used to be part and parcel to pool. But, that's not really why pool is looked on unfavorably. Yeah, it has it's root in "pool hustlers", but not totally. It isn't simply that people used to gamble all the time on pool. Look at golf. HUGELY popular sport/game worldwide and has been forever it seems. Any idea how much $$$ is bet on a weekend at any given country club? A ton. But golf doesn't suffer for it. No, it's other things as well that makes pool the redheaded step child. The image of the dive bar, the seedy, dark, smoke-filled pool room where gangsters and other questionable types gather. Drugs... drunks... etc. Even though, by and large, those things don't really exist that much anymore, the image lingers in popular culture. It's like your mom told you when you were a kid, "Be sure to make a good impression because first impressions last."

 

[Paul Schofield]

one of my most vivid memories was watching Mike Carella bust Big Bob Osborne at Baker's in Tampa over the course of 3 days, by the game.

It is by far the best way to play IMO. I loved it. You played until someone could not take it any more whether it was minutes, hours, or days! I liked the idea of the "open end". There was no place anyone had to be. Play forever. This was the real pool addicts juice. Push-Out and pay after every game...IN CASH.

 

[Michael Andros]

It is by far the best way to play IMO. I loved it. You played until someone could not take it any more whether it was minutes, hours, or days! I liked the idea of the "open end". There was no place anyone had to be. Play forever. This was the real pool addicts juice. Push-Out and pay after every game...IN CASH.

I busted a kid ( hell *I** was a kid ) at a tourney at Baker's back @ 77 or so. We ended up betting 50 a pop. He's stuck @ 700 or so and he loses another game. Lays his cue down, vanishes off into the crowd. Comes back in a few minutes with the 50. Loses the next game, same thing, only this time, it's more time gone. Comes back. Pays. Loses another, same thing. This time 15 minutes or so. When he hands me the 50, I break my cue. He instantly starts jumping up and down, waving his arms. "You can't quit!!! I''m stuck a grand!!!" I say to him "You're busted. Show me some cash." He proceeds to try to sell me his watch. Then his cue. I use a line I absolutely LOVED that I'd heard another player use a few years before. I said "Cash is what I'm about. Go get some and we'll play some more."

Man, I loved playing by the game. The excitement or agony was never more than a few minutes apart. I miss that. A lot.

 

[9-ball]

When I first learned to play 9 ball ( and for many years after ), there was no such thing as 1 foul, ball in hand. The standing rule was 2 fouls, ball in hand ( Roll-out or Push-out ). Buddy Hall was quoted some years ago as saying 1 foul had been the death of the spot shot, something he didn't really like much. I've heard in more than a few places that one foul was introduced as tournaments became more commonly televised and one foul was supposed to speed the game up. My feeling is, it's done the opposite. Yes, safety play has certainly become an art form but at the same time, some games can go on for what seems forever with players using safeties on almost every shot. There are strategies involved in playing either 1 or 2 fouls but of course they are very different strategies and I have always missed Roll-out mainly for that reason. I also feel one foul has created a game where many times offense is taken out of play. By that, I mean in a lot of circumstances, a player doesn't go for a shot anymore, but instead, if there is any difficulty to the shot, the player simply ducks.


How does everyone feel about Roll-out as opposed to one foul? Does anyone play 2 fouls anymore? I would like to hear anyone's thoughts on it. Personally, I miss spot shots.

( my apologies if this has been covered here prior )

I personally do not like the foul rule to win a game. Not pool where I come from. Same with jump shots. As Ronnie Allen once said when being interviewed, by using that technique, they don't have to use their brain so much..same goes for the foul rule when used to win a game....

 

[Michael Andros]

I personally do not like the foul rule to win a game. Not pool where I come from. Same with jump shots. As Ronnie Allen once said when being interviewed, by using that technique, they don't have to use their brain so much..same goes for the foul rule when used to win a game....

Amen. And like someone just said, who wants to lose the cheese on a kick? It's just BS. And it's also too bad. It really, really is.

 

[rabbitt]

For those that were around back in the so called old days, the memories are priceless....to be able to really say which way you like 9-ball [1 foul] 2 foul you had to be there right?before cell phones, internet juke-boxes yeah those days...sometimes, when old gets mentioned it tends to tarnish the value of the topic..but not when the topic is pool, the players from those days,the pool rooms etc..thats why the books have been written and the stories told..just like old music and wine...oh yeah t-birds...