So the Becue is a solid carbon fiber? Not hollow at any point? I don't think temp swings are good for anything. Even Carbon Fiber.
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- Thread starter marek
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So the Becue is a solid carbon fiber? Not hollow at any point? I don't think temp swings are good for anything. Even Carbon Fiber.
Carbon isnt going to deform, within any livable temperature range.
Never forget: carbon fiber is awesome.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but when we are talking about "action" or "energy transfer", I don't think the cue ball cares what it's being struck with. What it feels is F = m*a, and the hardness. So two cues of the same mass and with the same tip, delivered with the same speed, would have the same effect on the cue ball regardless of what solid material they are made of. It is my understanding that the contact time between the tip and cue ball is too short for the shaft to come into play. Am I missing something?
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I share that view. If we talk deflection then the distribution of mass matters. More mass near the tip means more deflection. Otherwise I believe you’re spot on.
Respectfully, Matt
(I don’t take myself too seriously. I hope you can return the favor.)
Not true, different materials have different energy transfer. Try hitting a baseball with a stick and then aluminum. Plus we are not talking about a robot hitting center ball, the action changes with spin applied as well as accuracy of the shot. I find that different shafts have very different cue ball action properties. I can draw great with some, others take more force. The OB shafts I played with I can draw the cueball easier than some other LD shafts, the Revo gets even more on the cueball than the OB shafts.
Tennis racquets, golf clubs, bats, some materials can drive the balls faster and further than others and with more accuracy. The difference between the Revo and the other shafts to me was like going from a standard width tennis racquet to a wide body one. I still miss quite a bit with any shaft, but that is due to my faulty stoke and alignment, I get easier control of the cueball with the Revo however.
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Hi Marek, it's a valid question. Vibration is a a wave that starts traveling down the cue AFTER the contact and has no influence on the cue ball. The CB is long gone by the time vibration can do anything.How about vibrations/energy loss?
Julian
I'm far from an expert in all sports, but I can tell you that a lot of those comparisons are not valid. I believe that golf clubs and baseball bats have been made from other materials primarily because they were lighter and more resistant. Graphite golf shafts actually flex during the swing and so on. The dynamics in each sport are different and there is no direct comparison with pool.
Julian
I think you are both right...so beautiful.
I hope everyone that plays pool buys a couple CF shafts. I hope they also buy some for their non playing friends/ family.
That should bring the price down some for AAA+ maple shafts!
That should bring the price down some for AAA+ maple shafts!
I believe the smart people say the vibration travels only a few centimeters before the cue ball has left the tip, which is why only the weight of the first few cm near the tip matters for squirt, and it’s why the stiffness of the shaft doesn’t affect squirt as much as one would think. It’s why low-deflection carbon fiber shafts are possible, and what’s kinda cool about them: Lightweight, high stiffness, low deflection.
I believe if it didn't matter than all cues would have the same type of tip and just change tip size.
White diamond without a doubt transfers more energy than a soft layered tip. Different materials will produce different results.
This had been documented at length by our own Dr Dave, including super slomo video. The contact lasts one thousand of a second btw
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue.html#feel
Happy reading
Julian
Looking up represents:
2.
constitute; amount to.
"this figure represents eleven percent of the company's total sales"
synonyms: constitute, be, amount to, be regarded as
"aging represents a threat to one's independence"
Amounts to is the reference. As in indicates.
Dave's note of flexing is the point. Shaft bends so not all energy is transfr
As the shaft returns to original shape through multiple isolations.
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Evan in a wood cue shaft this is not correct. But if you look at many high speed videos of a cue contact with a cue ball, some wood shafts, seem to double hit the cue ball on some shots. Lots of things to consider. How ever, the wave frequency( speed of sound in a cue shaft) is very different in wood to a composite cue shaft.
Maple has a speed frequency of around 4100m/s the books show 4km/s to 5km/s,but from reading actual test numbers is closer to 4.1km/s . Carbon fibre composites are on the 20,000m/s to 25,000m/s range, or 20 to 25km/s
So even with a ball contact time of 1/1000 seconds, a 1m shaft will have 2 return waves in that time frame, and a carbon shaft will have 5x that number.
Testing I have done, has shown that a carbon shaft of the same mass as a wood shaft, does make the cue ball go further on the same velocity hit, with the same tip. The wood absorbs more of the total energy, than what a carbon shaft does.
Carbon cues have been around a very long time. The early carbon shafts did not play at all well, so changes were made, and the carbon was wrapped around a wood core. Like the Cuetech shafts as an example, or others used the carbon as a core in the cue shaft, like the I series cues from McDermott as another example.
Cue tips and ferrules play a big part in the millisecond of the cue ball hit, and so does the persons stroke. Which is why some prefer a particular tip on a cue than other people do. Even at 240 frame / second camera's can reveal a lot about the tip and cue reaction when trying to find the best combination to suite your stroke or play.
The frequency response of the shaft is far more important than the tip on the cue, and shaft frequency is not related to the material it is made from.
Neil
There is a simple test. Find 10 good players, have them shoot a draw shot with several shafts, they will tell you what works the easiest to get action on the cueball. I tried with many shafts, and of all of them the Revo is among the top few if not the top. One of the worst were shafts from two great cuemakers, Arthur and Samsara. I felt I lost a lot of power in the shot with their shafts. The guy that sold me the Arthur (which is the cue in my sig picture) even told me "I was tired or doing so much work for so little with the cue".
There is no direct comparison with pool, yet going from wood to composite materials made the items impart more power in all cases. Wood rackets to graphite and other material rackets to wider body ones. While how exactly they impart force to their balls in play is different in each case, the reason they do is the same. The most power will come from a wide stiff design, but at the expense of hit feel and touch. The best designs compromise both the least, thus the cost and engineering time in the equipment. If you throw something at a wooden wall, a concrete wall and a metal wall, I will guarantee you the rebound will be the most on the wall with the highest density and less deformity after the impact. That is what the carbon fiber shafts do, except in the case of pool, you are throwing the wall at the ball, but in physics, the results are the same. If you run into a car at 70mph or a car runs into you at the same speed, the damage will be the same.
The more the material deforms, by law of physics, the more energy transfer is lost to the object it contacts. If the impact is 1/1000th of a second or 1 second, it does not matter. It may matter to us, but not to the object. Here is something interesting about energy transfer, Newtons cradle, those hanging balls I'm sure we all played with at times. If you lift a ball and drop it, one ball at the other end bounces. If you raise two, then two balls will bounce. Now the fun part, if you raise one, then toss it at double the force, the other side balls still moves one ball but at double the distance, not two. How does it know that there is one ball at the other end moving twice as fast and not two at normal speed? So how does the cueball know there is force not lost even in the tiny contact, because it's not a human thinking about it, it just reacts in the only way it can, through laws of physics.
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Cuetec used fiberglass not carbon fiber on their shafts. I don't think they did it for any particular playability characteristic but I think to keep them from warping (or at least advertise that) and to sell to people that liked colors and fancy material names.
Hi Neil …. Can you explain the above that I edited out? In the first statement you say that the CF shaft has 5X the waves and the last statement says its not the material the shaft is made from. I don't understand. If its not the material, what is it?
Thanks!