Wonky elbow

D

Derek7646

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So everyone that sees me shoot says i have a beautiful stroke and this and that, but when i do my own analysis, it appears that my grip hand is too far forward when addressing the cue ball. I have made it work and can pull 1.5-2 table lengths of draw and all the neccesary english but i can sometimes be inconsistent with the shot making/accuracy of the draw.

When i sat down and recorded myself, i noticed that when i am at address on a shot where i really need to stroke the cue ball, my follow through without dropping my elbow is limited to an inch, maybe two. I believe that i have become accustomed to dropping my elbow out of neccesity and although it works for the most part, i want to reduce the moving parts and help take my game to the next level. I don't believe i am "chicken winging", but my grip hand is several inches ahead of my elbow instead of underneath.

I know a decent amount about fundamentals and the game and i play competitively but i am not sure about the best route to take here and i am not an instructor. A few fixes i see are to shorten the bridge length to help my grip hand nestle under my elbow where it should be or get a cue extension/new cue with a few more natural inches of length. When i shorten my bridge, it doesn't feel natural and i find myself missing more than previously, although this could be mental and it could take some getting used to. I have a 8 inch extension that i could try but i feel like that is another large, drastic change. As i said, i don't really have a problem currently, just trying to make small tweaks and adjustments to play the best possible game that i can play.

Any advice would be appreicated.
 
Derek7646 said:
...my grip hand is several inches ahead of my elbow instead of underneath.

...

A few fixes i see are to shorten the bridge length to help my grip hand nestle under my elbow where it should be or get a cue extension/new cue with a few more natural inches of length.
Click to expand...
How about simply moving your grip hand back an inch or three? That helped me with this problem.

pj
chgo
 
So my grip hand is alost always on the tail end of the cue with no room to go back any further, which kind of throws the balance of the cue off...from what i have read at least.

I understand any change is going to feel different, as i said, but i want to make the RIGHT change. I'm not 100% sure which route i should take at this time and am looking for suggestions on that, as Patrick suggested something that helped me before but didn't quite fix the problem. I don't know if i have an above average bridge length, but the bridge length i prefer to be at leaves me with no more cue left to grab and a grip hand forward of my elbow. I am also not particularly tall, 5'11 with wide-ish shoulders, which i believe can have an impact.
 
You could stick a video on YouTube & all the Armchair Instructors will help you out... They can't wait, so get'r done....
 
ceebee said:
You could stick a video on YouTube & all the Armchair Instructors will help you out... They can't wait, so get'r done....
Click to expand...

I would expect a better response than that from somebody who worked under the department of the navy.

-Former bubblehead
 
Actually, I thought it was a good response. A video would clearly show what is happening in your stroke.

The fact that many will give you their unqualified opinion is the humor in the endeavor.

My Partner & I have been giving Video Analysis lessons for the last 7 years at the big tournaments in the BreakRAK booth.
 
Derek7646 said:
So my grip hand is alost always on the tail end of the cue with no room to go back any further, which kind of throws the balance of the cue off...from what i have read at least.

I understand any change is going to feel different, as i said, but i want to make the RIGHT change. I'm not 100% sure which route i should take at this time and am looking for suggestions on that, as Patrick suggested something that helped me before but didn't quite fix the problem. I don't know if i have an above average bridge length, but the bridge length i prefer to be at leaves me with no more cue left to grab and a grip hand forward of my elbow. I am also not particularly tall, 5'11 with wide-ish shoulders, which i believe can have an impact.
Click to expand...
Hmm... sounds like the extension might be worth trying. People also like it for the extra "ballast" that helps keep their stroke on line.

pj
chgo
 
My Cue Maker friend & I made up a sketch on making cues to fit each of us' frame. This sketch is just a suggestion, using past experiences
 

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ceebee said:
My Cue Maker friend & I made up a sketch on making cues to fit each of us' frame. This sketch is just a suggestion, using past experiences
Click to expand...

That's a nice illustration. Can you use that to see the exact size cue somebody should play with? Assuming you had all the information you needed.
 
The easiest fix is to have someone look at your setup on the address to the cue ball.
Then let him/her move your grip hand so that your forearm is perpendicular to the floor/slate .
Have a blue painters' tape around right in front of your grip hand from there.
Now learn to hold your cue behind the blue tape.
Do not play games .
Shoot hundreds of straight in shots daily from the foot spot marker to the corner pockets .
Use donut ring enforcers to mark where the balls need to be. Where your bridge need to be, and where your tip should end up after stroking.
Shoot stop shots by the hundreds.

If you play games before you master the right setup, you're just going back to your old setup.
 
That is precisely the reason we made that sketch. I play with a 58 inch cue that has a 4 inch extension, made by Guido Orlandi. You might get someone to assist you in setting up your address, to develop your prescribed Cue Stick Length & see what you come up with.

I never believed that Cues were One-Size-Fits-All.... But, then again, we can all get used to something.

I myself like a longer bridge, the more length I have to aim with, the more accurate I shoot. I know this exaggerates my statement, but a 1 inch stick doesn't allow me to aim as well as a 12 inch stick.

If you are off 0.017 (thick business card) of an inch in your aim, at 1 inch length, that is 1 degree. The formula is this. The Side Opposite of the angle of 1 degree is 0.017 in length. The Side Adjacent is 1 inch. Good Luck...
 
JoeyInCali said:
The easiest fix is to have someone look at your setup on the address to the cue ball.
Then let him/her move your grip hand so that your forearm is perpendicular to the floor/slate .
Have a blue painters' tape around right in front of your grip hand from there.
Now learn to hold your cue behind the blue tape.
Do not play games .
Shoot hundreds of straight in shots daily from the foot spot marker to the corner pockets .
Use donut ring enforcers to mark where the balls need to be. Where your bridge need to be, and where your tip should end up after stroking.
Shoot stop shots by the hundreds.

If you play games before you master the right setup, you're just going back to your old setup.
Click to expand...

Very Good suggestion....
 
JoeyInCali said:
The easiest fix is to have someone look at your setup on the address to the cue ball.
Then let him/her move your grip hand so that your forearm is perpendicular to the floor/slate .
Have a blue painters' tape around right in front of your grip hand from there.
Now learn to hold your cue behind the blue tape.
Do not play games .
Shoot hundreds of straight in shots daily from the foot spot marker to the corner pockets .
Use donut ring enforcers to mark where the balls need to be. Where your bridge need to be, and where your tip should end up after stroking.
Shoot stop shots by the hundreds.

If you play games before you master the right setup, you're just going back to your old setup.
Click to expand...

That's good advice but i have already tried that, i always end up off the cue when i am trying to make my preferred bridge distance work. I don't even feel like i have an excessive bridge distance like Earl or anything crazy, i will try to post a picture here in a minute.

That is interesting, i always warm up with 20-30 of this shot, was well as trying to follow the cue ball in the backet and have it draw back into the back pocket but i have never taken a whole day or two to just shoot that shot in isolation before.

And Patrick, i bought the predator QR extender, i believe its 8 inches and it screws on the back. I am going to try the above drill with that screwed on and see how it feels. Thanks for the tips everyone
 
Derek7646 said:
That's good advice but i have already tried that, i always end up off the cue when i am trying to make my preferred bridge distance work. I don't even feel like i have an excessive bridge distance like Earl or anything crazy, i will try to post a picture here in a minute.

That is interesting, i always warm up with 20-30 of this shot, was well as trying to follow the cue ball in the backet and have it draw back into the back pocket but i have never taken a whole day or two to just shoot that shot in isolation before.

And Patrick, i bought the predator QR extender, i believe its 8 inches and it screws on the back. I am going to try the above drill with that screwed on and see how it feels. Thanks for the tips everyone
Click to expand...

I don't think it makes sense for anyone to grip the cue on the bumper. If you're gripping the cue that far back than your bridge length must be too long (Unless you are 7 feet tall lol).

I used to play with a long bridge and a few years ago a friend of mine convinced me that i would play much more consistent with a shorter bridge length. He ended up being correct (for me anyways). The shorter the bridge length the better in my opinion. I know the balance and pivot point will be different but it's not that much of an adjustment to make.

You basically have 3 options here:
1. Move grip hand back (not possible without extension or longer cue)
2. Move bridge closer (highly recommended by me)
3. Do nothing (often the best option - if it ain't broke...)

Good luck!
 
Derek7646 said:
That's good advice but i have already tried that, i always end up off the cue when i am trying to make my preferred bridge distance work. I don't even feel like i have an excessive bridge distance like Earl or anything crazy, i will try to post a picture here in a minute.

That is interesting, i always warm up with 20-30 of this shot, was well as trying to follow the cue ball in the backet and have it draw back into the back pocket but i have never taken a whole day or two to just shoot that shot in isolation before.

And Patrick, i bought the predator QR extender, i believe its 8 inches and it screws on the back. I am going to try the above drill with that screwed on and see how it feels. Thanks for the tips everyone
Click to expand...
We need a picture of you in your shooting address.
How tall are you ?
Measure your bridge length .
10" is plenty.
 
FeelDaShot said:
I don't think it makes sense for anyone to grip the cue on the bumper. If you're gripping the cue that far back than your bridge length must be too long (Unless you are 7 feet tall lol).

I used to play with a long bridge and a few years ago a friend of mine convinced me that i would play much more consistent with a shorter bridge length. He ended up being correct (for me anyways). The shorter the bridge length the better in my opinion. I know the balance and pivot point will be different but it's not that much of an adjustment to make.

You basically have 3 options here:
1. Move grip hand back (not possible without extension or longer cue)
2. Move bridge closer (highly recommended by me)
3. Do nothing (often the best option - if it ain't broke...)

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks, maybe i will give a slightly shorter bridge a try again. As you seem to understand, i am not trying to make giant changes to my game, just small tweaks so that i am not limited by a lack of, or weak, fundamentals.
 
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