Throwing Frozen Caroms

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FeelDaShot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the attached diagram, if you hit the 1 ball it will carom off the two ball and follow the tangent line to land just inside the edge of the pocket. This is about the extent of my knowledge on the subject. Can anyone explain how to throw the one ball off line? Specifically, the effects of:

1. Follow
2. Draw
3. Inside English
4. Outside English
5. Cut Angle on One Ball
6. Dirty Balls
7. Speed

I just ordered Ray Martin's "99 Critical Shots of Pool". Are there any other publications that specifically focus on this subject?
 

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Object ball get opposite English of cueball. So if you hit with draw you will get high on 1-ball and that probably end up missing that carom shot. If they are touching you can alter that tangent line a lot. A lot of trick shots use these kind setups.

examples:
First two shots of this trick shot video is almost full in face hit and power draw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33FuQkqA5_0

I remember reading spin transfer is about 15% of cueball spin. When balls are frozen cueball stays little longer on object ball so you can get more spin transfer.
 
Jack Koehler's The Science of Pocket Billiards discusses this (and just about everything worth knowing about the physics involved in pool) in great detail.
 
Poolmanis said:
Object ball get opposite English of cueball. So if you hit with draw you will get high on 1-ball and that probably end up missing that carom shot. If they are touching you can alter that tangent line a lot. A lot of trick shots use these kind setups.
Click to expand...

But the impact point (thick/ thin) between cb/ob will determine what deviation from natural can occur.
 
Poolmanis said:
Object ball get opposite English of cueball. So if you hit with draw you will get high on 1-ball and that probably end up missing that carom shot. If they are touching you can alter that tangent line a lot. A lot of trick shots use these kind setups.

examples:
First two shots of this trick shot video is almost full in face hit and power draw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33FuQkqA5_0

I remember reading spin transfer is about 15% of cueball spin. When balls are frozen cueball stays little longer on object ball so you can get more spin transfer.
Click to expand...
That is a demonstration of the "ten times fuller" system. The shot can be made without draw on the cue ball. This can be shown by placing an object ball where the cue ball will land -- nearly but not quite in line with the two frozen object balls -- and then shooting that third OB into the frozen two.

Draw is transferred and it does help the angle but it is not required.

Dr. Dave's site has more info on this.
 
Black-Balled said:
But the impact point (thick/ thin) between cb/ob will determine what deviation from natural can occur.
Click to expand...
And the "ten times fuller" system gives the relationship between impact point and the path of the first object ball.
 
FeelDaShot said:
In the attached diagram, if you hit the 1 ball it will carom off the two ball and follow the tangent line to land just inside the edge of the pocket. This is about the extent of my knowledge on the subject. Can anyone explain how to throw the one ball off line? Specifically, the effects of:

1. Follow
2. Draw
Click to expand...
Puts very small amount of opposite spin on the 1, causing it to masse a little forward or back from the 90-degree tangent line.

3. Inside English
4. Outside English
Click to expand...
No effect on the 1's path (but throws 2nd ball offline in direction of spin).

5. Cut Angle on One Ball
Click to expand...
No effect on the 1's path (but throws 2nd ball offline in direction of cut).

6. Dirty Balls
Click to expand...
Increases all effects.

pj
chgo
 
Bob Jewett said:
That is a demonstration of the "ten times fuller" system. The shot can be made without draw on the cue ball. This can be shown by placing an object ball where the cue ball will land -- nearly but not quite in line with the two frozen object balls -- and then shooting that third OB into the frozen two.

Draw is transferred and it does help the angle but it is not required.

Dr. Dave's site has more info on this.
Click to expand...

BTW. Check this ORIGINAL shot where draw is definitely needed :D
https://youtu.be/33FuQkqA5_0?t=104

same vid on 1:44 timestamp on link
 
FeelDaShot said:
... I just ordered Ray Martin's "99 Critical Shots of Pool". Are there any other publications that specifically focus on this subject?
Click to expand...
Byrne's books cover this and see Dr. Dave's website.

Martin covers frozen balls in shots 55 (draw), 56 (follow), and 65 (Poolmanis's first shot in his video). There is more discussion from Byrne and Dr. Dave.

A standard shot is to have two balls spotted on the foot spot and have ball in hand behind the line. Every good one pocket player knows how to make the front ball in his pocket and leave the other close to his pocket after two cushions, although many do not play the shot in games because there are several things that can go wrong and it does require good execution.

I think it is hard to back up the frozen ball with follow. If the balls are clean it's hard to change the angle in that direction (away from the second ball). If there is another frozen ball behind (three in line) then amazing things can be done with follow.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Some great shots in that video - thanks.

Is this one (timestamp visible) a double hit?
...
Click to expand...
It is not a double hit because the stick does not follow through that far.

Mike Massey has been doing that shot for a long time. Mike shows it as an easier shot into the side pocket with the cue-eight pointed straight at the pocket and the nine interfering with the path about half a ball. Just shoot through. You might need to angle the shot a little. It was fairly high percentage for me.

For those interested in this sort of thing, Mike has published a book on trick shots. So has Byrne.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I don't get it. The 8 hits the 9 pretty full, and must be sliding at that short distance, yet it follows the 9 at speed.

??

pj <- guess that's why it's a trick shot
chgo
Click to expand...
The cue ball is following right behind and hits the eight ball when it is stopped by the 9. View the video in single step mode.
 
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