Diamond Systems, How to Test a Table, Diamond Table Banking Short

[dr_dave]

I hope you like the shirt. Other people have also told me my shirt offends some people. I guess they only see (and misinterpret) the “Got English?” words and don’t connect it to pool and sidespin (despite the shot diagram and physics equations also on the shirt). Some people get offended too easily, IMO.

I love the shirt! People are generally wimps and wanna be pissed off about any little thing! LOL

Thanks. I can see how a non-pool-player might misinterpret the “Got English?” on the shirt, but I would think anybody in a pool hall should know that “English” refers to sidespin, especially if they look at the diagram, logo, and other words on the shirt.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I can see how a non-pool-player might misinterpret the “Got English?” on the shirt, but I would think anybody in a pool hall should know that “English” refers to sidespin, especially if they look at the diagram, logo, and other words on the shirt.

Despite being racist , it's my favorite pool shirt - even non-pool players love it (maybe after a little explanation). And it's educational - not because of the particular info on it (which I don't even understand), but because it highlights the importance of physics in pool, and your important role in spreading that lesson.

Thanks again!

pj
chgo

 

[trentfromtoledo]

Despite being racist , it's my favorite pool shirt - even non-pool players love it (maybe after a little explanation). And it's educational - not because of the particular info on it (which I don't even understand), but because it highlights the importance of physics in pool, and your important role in spreading that lesson.

Thanks again!

pj
chgo

Thanks again for the shirt Pat! I hope all is well with you!


Trent from Toledo:thumbup:

 

[dr_dave]

Despite being racist , it's my favorite pool shirt - even non-pool players love it (maybe after a little explanation). And it's educational - not because of the particular info on it (which I don't even understand), but because it highlights the importance of physics in pool, and your important role in spreading that lesson.

Thanks again!

Thanks Pat ... and you’re welcome. I’m glad you like the shirt.

Catch you later,
Dave

PS: Do you have convenient access to Blue Label Diamonds? If so, please consider shooting the test shots in my video and let us know what you find. Thanks!

 

[BRussell]

If someone is offended, you should consider that a bonus.

 

[dr_dave]

If someone is offended, you should consider that a bonus.

I like the way you think.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Do you have convenient access to Blue Label Diamonds? If so, please consider shooting the test shots in my video and let us know what you find. Thanks!

The only Diamonds I'm familiar with are at Chris's, and I think they're all newer (newer = Red Label, right?).

pj
chgo

 

[iusedtoberich]

I watched this in full when you posted it. A couple of days later (last night) I was at the pool hall and wanted to try this on a few tables, but the video was too long for my attention to find the test shots. Sorry, being honest.

Maybe you can do a simple PDF of only the shots so we can shoot them and record the result of what happened. Then you might grow it into a database.

Have you given any thought on how to test the springiness of the rails? Besides Diamonds playing short, they bounce like crazy, but not all the time and not in every location/weather condition.

I had thought about a pendulum like tester before, to take the bed cloth out of the equation. (similar to an izod impact tester)

But maybe a simple ramp to launch the ball, so it is in its natural rolling state, and measure how far the ball rebounded. To neutralize the bed cloth effect, perhaps the ball can be rolled lengthwise on the table (no rail contact) to measure its total length. Then the ramp can be aimed at a cushion and the total ball travel into and out of the cushion measured. The difference in length between the non cushion test, and the cushion test, would be linear with the energy lost to the cushion.

You could even build the ramp onto a protractor type appartatus, so that the angle inot the cushion could be adjusted. Then figure out some way to measure the return angle.

I know you favor test methods that anyone can do, with just their normal equipment. I can't think of a good way to test rail rebound with just a stick and balls... But that does not mean there is not one!

 

[dr_dave]

The only Diamonds I'm familiar with are at Chris's, and I think they're all newer (newer = Red Label, right?).

Newer is “Blue Label.” We already know the Red Labels play very short.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Newer is “Blue Label.” We already know the Red Labels play very short.

Thanks,
Dave

Oh, OK - I'll try to get to Chris's this week and test one or two (they have several). Do you have a preference for cloth condition (new, medium, old)?

pj
chgo

 

[dr_dave]

I watched this in full when you posted it. A couple of days later (last night) I was at the pool hall and wanted to try this on a few tables, but the video was too long for my attention to find the test shots. Sorry, being honest.

I knew it my kick/bank video would be too long for some. I guess I should have broken it up into shorter clips.

Maybe you can do a simple PDF of only the shots so we can shoot them and record the result of what happened. Then you might grow it into a database.

Great idea. I'll diagram the shots and post them as soon as I can find the time (maybe today, but definitely by tomorrow).

Have you given any thought on how to test the springiness of the rails? Besides Diamonds playing short, they bounce like crazy, but not all the time and not in every location/weather condition.

I had thought about a pendulum like tester before, to take the bed cloth out of the equation. (similar to an izod impact tester)

But maybe a simple ramp to launch the ball, so it is in its natural rolling state, and measure how far the ball rebounded. To neutralize the bed cloth effect, perhaps the ball can be rolled lengthwise on the table (no rail contact) to measure its total length. Then the ramp can be aimed at a cushion and the total ball travel into and out of the cushion measured. The difference in length between the non cushion test, and the cushion test, would be linear with the energy lost to the cushion.

You could even build the ramp onto a protractor type appartatus, so that the angle inot the cushion could be adjusted. Then figure out some way to measure the return angle.

I find it interesting that you don't have the patience to watch a 10 minute video, but you seem willing to put in a bunch a time on this sort of thing. FYI, some info and advice on how to do a simple ramp can be found here:

pool table stimpmeter

I know you favor test methods that anyone can do, with just their normal equipment. I can't think of a good way to test rail rebound with just a stick and balls... But that does not mean there is not one!

I think my simple set of shots is a reasonable way to do it, especially for the slow-roll kicks. It is easy to be consistent; and even if you are not, just hit a bunch of shots until you see a clear average. If you want to be precise, you can measure how much the CB goes long or short of the target.

Regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

Newer is “Blue Label.” We already know the Red Labels play very short.

Oh, OK - I'll try to get to Chris's this week and test one or two (they have several). Do you have a preference for cloth condition (new, medium, old)?

I have a preference for typical used pool-hall conditions, but it would be interest to get reports for all cloth conditions from new/clean/slick to old/dirty/humid.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[iusedtoberich]

I knew it my kick/bank video would be too long for some. I guess I should have broken it up into shorter clips.

Great idea. I'll diagram the shots and post them as soon as I can find the time (maybe today, but definitely by tomorrow).

I find it interesting that you don't have the patience to watch a 10 minute video, but you seem willing to put in a bunch a time on this sort of thing. FYI, some info and advice on how to do a simple ramp can be found here:

pool table stimpmeter

I think my simple set of shots is a reasonable way to do it, especially for the slow-roll kicks. It is easy to be consistent; and even if you are not, just hit a bunch of shots until you see a clear average. If you want to be precise, you can measure how much the CB goes long or short of the target.

Regards,
Dave

I wouldn't change your video editing for me, as different things jump out at different people. For me, the diamond vs GC rail rebound debate is a big deal. A kicking or aiming banking system I wouldn't spend 10 seconds on. So for me to watch 10 minutes to get to the "test shots", I lost my patience very quickly scrubbing through kicking at a ball to go safe. You posted this video in several diamond vs GC flame fests going back a decade, but at least half of your video is strategy on kicking, rather than the test shots to compare tables. Again, this is me, and we all have opinions and a-holes Don't change it on my account.

A worksheet would be appreciated though. In general, scrubbing through a video when looking for something can be a pain. But I understand both sides of it.

 

[iusedtoberich]

...snip...
I think my simple set of shots is a reasonable way to do it, especially for the slow-roll kicks. It is easy to be consistent; and even if you are not, just hit a bunch of shots until you see a clear average. If you want to be precise, you can measure how much the CB goes long or short of the target.

Regards,
Dave

I meant for the speed off of the cushion, more so than the angle (which the way you are showing seems good). Measuring the Diamond "Pin-ball" effect.

 

[dr_dave]

I wouldn't change your video editing for me, as different things jump out at different people. For me, the diamond vs GC rail rebound debate is a big deal. A kicking or aiming banking system I wouldn't spend 10 seconds on. So for me to watch 10 minutes to get to the "test shots", I lost my patience very quickly scrubbing through kicking at a ball to go safe. You posted this video in several diamond vs GC flame fests going back a decade, but at least half of your video is strategy on kicking, rather than the test shots to compare tables. Again, this is me, and we all have opinions and a-holes Don't change it on my account.

A worksheet would be appreciated though. In general, scrubbing through a video when looking for something can be a pain. But I understand both sides of it.

With the examples at the beginning, I was trying to make the point that the systems can be useful. With the table comparisons, I was showing that the systems work very well on most tables, except the "Red Label" Diamond I tested. I hope others do the test shots carefully on a wide range of Diamond tables and report their results here. For convenience, the test shots in the video start at the 6:42 point in the video.

FYI, I'm diagramming the shots now, so I should have them ready soon. I'll post a link here and in the YouTube video description as soon as the diagrams are ready.

Catch you later,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

I meant for the speed off of the cushion, more so than the angle (which the way you are showing seems good). Measuring the Diamond "Pin-ball" effect.

Build a stimpmeter ramp, and you'll be ready to go.

Regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

FYI, I'm diagramming the shots now, so I should have them ready soon. I'll post a link here and in the YouTube video description as soon as the diagrams are ready.

The diagrams are ready. I decided to keep it simple and include only the basic kick and bank tests. They are on a single page. Here it is:

Pool Table Kick and Bank Shot System Test Shots

Get to work,
Dave

 

[iusedtoberich]

Thanks. Is the “1/3 more” one ball diameter? It looks close to that in your diagram but I’m unsure.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Ahhh, I forgot you still use that 8’ drawing tool. Still disagree with that, but I’ve said my piece on that.

So is it 1/3 across the diamond, through the diamond, other?

 

[dr_dave]

Thanks. Is the “1/3 more” one ball diameter? It looks close to that in your diagram but I’m unsure.

It is 1/3 of a diamond, which, on a 9' table is:

1/3 diamond = 1/3 (12 1/2") = 4 1/6" = 1.85 balls (from the center of the diamond to the center of the alignment ball)

I usually just use my fingers to visualize the 1/3 as demonstrated at the 3:41 point in the video.

I look forward to seeing results from you, Pat, and others.

Thanks,
Dave