Gambling With Someone That Can't Afford To Lose (long)

Broke or not it’s hard to find action these days compared to 20 years ago. You might be the player that gives this player reason to play and work on his game. It sounds like you two are in the same league of speed, but you’re a half step ahead of him.



I’d say keep playing him. The sessions with you probably keep him awake at night and drive him. Don’t take away his reason to keep playing our game. So many players quit because all the action dried up.



The broke part doesn’t matter. I’m surprised you haven’t seen it before. I know many guys who would work like dogs 70 hrs a week, come in on payday Friday night, and be borrowing $40 by sat morbing, after we were all done gambling at pool or cards. Week after week after week.



They always came back. Your man will be back also, with money to play.



Btw having money in atm is the same as having cash on you. I don’t consider that a lie.



Also, I know several ppl who would take out 50 or 60 from the atm inside the poolroom after each set, and pay the $3 fee each time. Instead of taking a few hundred. It’s just how their brain is wired. It’s no big deal.



Oh as far as atm denomination, I lost 300 to a regular match one time and went to the bank atm (same parking lot as pool room) to get the cash. No lie, the machine paid me in 5s and 10s. It was the only time anything like that ever happened. I went back to pay him and we were both laughing about it.

Interesting take on things. I guess I just haven't gambled as much as others do. Although I once lost $2400 playing dice in probably an hour, I wasn't mad at all at the other person who won the money. But that was no where near losing more than I could afford to lose.

Our skill level difference in Fargo Rating is him at 580 and me at ~625.

EDIT: His preliminary rating is only 568 with between 100-200 games in the system.

Hmmm. Using the fair match feature it appears that I'm a 2 game favorite in a race to 9. But with the short races to 5, there is no advantage -- just as I instinctively thought. Unless I've improved and I'm now well above a 625 rating, which is possible.
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... But with the short races to 5, there is no advantage -- just as I instinctively thought. ...
Your instinct is wrong. If a 625 plays a 580 a race to 5, he is 68.4% to win. This is pretty simple statistics stuff and FargoRate provides the calculator right on their web site. If you gave him a game on the wire going to 5 (5-4) you would still be a 54% favorite.
 
old story, a lot of ground to cover!

My posts generally run long, this one probably will run to chapters including the old story that broke me of trying to break everyone I played.

For starters, Get-a-Grip and his opponent weren't gambling. They both knew each other's game and they were wagering on the outcome of each set. There is a difference between wagering and gambling on something you can't control or predict.

Had Get-a-Grip lost his opponent would have taken his money without a second thought! Both players are trying to win the other person's money, often every bit of it they can. Which I will mention, that might have been the guy's last fifty in the bank, that didn't mean he didn't still have $49 in there! He probably has a well known group of people he can touch for a few dollars too.

I can't say that what anyone in this thread has said is morally wrong, purely a matter of viewpoints.

Many years ago I started playing with a small group that didn't consider a person was beaten until they lost every dollar they had on them and anything else they had with them they would play for, pre ATM days. Gold chains were popular and I won them by the pound. Usually tossed them to the bar maid, gold chains weren't my thing. Sticks, belts with fancy buckles, boots, western shirts, cars, tools of a person's trade, dope, not much I haven't played for. I wouldn't play for guns or women, about all I didn't play for. I didn't have a use for the dope but I found it entertaining to escort the loser to the bathroom and make them flush it! I didn't keep clothes or tools of the trade, after seeing the ratty cars I won I didn't keep them either although I had planned to.

Before long my goal was to bust the opponent flat, it didn't matter who. This went on for a couple years. I was well pleased with myself. Staying single until my mid-twenties myself I never gave any thought to these guys maybe having responsibilities. It was a hard world I lived in anyway, they were doing their best to bust me too.

A man came into my local watering hole with a couple bar tables one evening toting a hinged cue in a case, wanted to gamble. Strangers were my meat by general consensus. We started the usual three or five dollars, seemed to be an unwritten law even if we both knew we would be playing for money the bet always started small in a bar. Didn't take long before we were at twenty a game. Nice guy courteous and polite, friendly. Didn't take long to see he was outclassed though.

He should have pulled up, he couldn't seem to make himself do it. He was obviously under a lot of pressure and knew he was overmatched but he kept putting another twenty on the table and I kept taking them until he was busted.

My gambling persona was pretty polished by then and "customers" that would drop a hundred or two in the seventies were worth cultivating. When he went to the door I stepped out with him, uninvited. I just intended another handshake and a "so long." He stopped and lit a cigarette at the door and I looked over to the only strange car in front of the place. It was cold out, in the high thirties, low forties. A woman and baby had been sitting in the cold car the last couple hours. I ambled over while the guy smoked his cigarette. He hadn't asked for a walking stick and for no good reason why, I hadn't offered. Still early in the evening, not dark yet and it hadn't been a real long session.

When I got to the car I motioned for the lady to roll the window down. Small baby and she was pregnant again. I talked to her a few minutes mostly to the effect to get her husband away from pool tables, he wasn't good enough to gamble on them. I guesstimated I had taken one sixty or so off of him best I could recall so I gave her eighty. Told her to tell him I had given her twenty and keep the rest in reserve for the baby. I doubt she did but that I had no control over.

For the last couple of years I had delighted in playing just a little better than the other player, barroom banger or shortstop, which was about how I rated. Teasing them along and milking them dry, particularly the jerks and small time hustlers that thought they were hustling me, was a pleasure in life!

Now I couldn't help but wonder how many times I had taken food out of families' mouths and light bills in the winter time. That was the death of a pretty good hustler. I still played pool, still played for money, but I never tried to bust people after that. I did sometimes but it was their doing, not me leading them on.

We all have to work in our own comfort zone. I have known dozens that had no bottom, others whose conscious bothered them playing for the table or a beer. A beer was all I would gamble for with a friend, if the game was right I would bet the farm with some people and have.

Hu
 
Your instinct is wrong. If a 625 plays a 580 a race to 5, he is 68.4% to win. This is pretty simple statistics stuff and FargoRate provides the calculator right on their web site. If you gave him a game on the wire going to 5 (5-4) you would still be a 54% favorite.

Okay, but the fair match, medium says that a 5-5 race is "fair". Maybe I misinterpreted this. What are the fair race numbers supposed to mean?

Are you using the "hot" column. If so, why?

Okay. I found the Match Odds. When I tried it before the font sizing that I had selected on my browser wouldn't display the percentages. So I thought it wasn't working. I'm actually a 72.8% favorite to win a race to 5 -- and a 79.5% favorite in a race to 9. Wow. I'm stealing. (He actually has a 568 Fargo Rating) So the short race to 5 does improve his odds, but nowhere NEAR what I had thought it would, even with the luck factor in 9-ball.
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Your instinct is wrong. If a 625 plays a 580 a race to 5, he is 68.4% to win. This is pretty simple statistics stuff and FargoRate provides the calculator right on their web site. If you gave him a game on the wire going to 5 (5-4) you would still be a 54% favorite.

BTW, I made an update to his Fargo Rating. It's not a 580 like I thought, when I looked it up, it's actually a 568.

I should make a disclaimer regarding my rating too. I gave it an approximately symbol, because I'm actually not in the system. I'm giving myself a conservative rating based on how I played two guys that do have established ratings. Last year one guy on my team has a 635 rating, and two years in a row I've had a higher league average than him. I've played a different guy for money with a 650 rating, and playing over many hours, he always beats me by a handful of games. So 625 is a low estimate IMO, it could be as high as 640 I suppose.

EDIT again: So if I won 3 races to 9, at 9-3, 9-3, 9-8, and he's a 568, can my rating be estimated just on these match results, or no? I guess that the answer is "yes', but with virtually zero confidence.


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My posts generally run long, this one probably will run to chapters including the old story that broke me of trying to break everyone I played.



For starters, Get-a-Grip and his opponent weren't gambling. They both knew each other's game and they were wagering on the outcome of each set. There is a difference between wagering and gambling on something you can't control or predict.



Had Get-a-Grip lost his opponent would have taken his money without a second thought! Both players are trying to win the other person's money, often every bit of it they can. Which I will mention, that might have been the guy's last fifty in the bank, that didn't mean he didn't still have $49 in there! He probably has a well known group of people he can touch for a few dollars too.



I can't say that what anyone in this thread has said is morally wrong, purely a matter of viewpoints.



Many years ago I started playing with a small group that didn't consider a person was beaten until they lost every dollar they had on them and anything else they had with them they would play for, pre ATM days. Gold chains were popular and I won them by the pound. Usually tossed them to the bar maid, gold chains weren't my thing. Sticks, belts with fancy buckles, boots, western shirts, cars, tools of a person's trade, dope, not much I haven't played for. I wouldn't play for guns or women, about all I didn't play for. I didn't have a use for the dope but I found it entertaining to escort the loser to the bathroom and make them flush it! I didn't keep clothes or tools of the trade, after seeing the ratty cars I won I didn't keep them either although I had planned to.



Before long my goal was to bust the opponent flat, it didn't matter who. This went on for a couple years. I was well pleased with myself. Staying single until my mid-twenties myself I never gave any thought to these guys maybe having responsibilities. It was a hard world I lived in anyway, they were doing their best to bust me too.



A man came into my local watering hole with a couple bar tables one evening toting a hinged cue in a case, wanted to gamble. Strangers were my meat by general consensus. We started the usual three or five dollars, seemed to be an unwritten law even if we both knew we would be playing for money the bet always started small in a bar. Didn't take long before we were at twenty a game. Nice guy courteous and polite, friendly. Didn't take long to see he was outclassed though.



He should have pulled up, he couldn't seem to make himself do it. He was obviously under a lot of pressure and knew he was overmatched but he kept putting another twenty on the table and I kept taking them until he was busted.



My gambling persona was pretty polished by then and "customers" that would drop a hundred or two in the seventies were worth cultivating. When he went to the door I stepped out with him, uninvited. I just intended another handshake and a "so long." He stopped and lit a cigarette at the door and I looked over to the only strange car in front of the place. It was cold out, in the high thirties, low forties. A woman and baby had been sitting in the cold car the last couple hours. I ambled over while the guy smoked his cigarette. He hadn't asked for a walking stick and for no good reason why, I hadn't offered. Still early in the evening, not dark yet and it hadn't been a real long session.



When I got to the car I motioned for the lady to roll the window down. Small baby and she was pregnant again. I talked to her a few minutes mostly to the effect to get her husband away from pool tables, he wasn't good enough to gamble on them. I guesstimated I had taken one sixty or so off of him best I could recall so I gave her eighty. Told her to tell him I had given her twenty and keep the rest in reserve for the baby. I doubt she did but that I had no control over.



For the last couple of years I had delighted in playing just a little better than the other player, barroom banger or shortstop, which was about how I rated. Teasing them along and milking them dry, particularly the jerks and small time hustlers that thought they were hustling me, was a pleasure in life!



Now I couldn't help but wonder how many times I had taken food out of families' mouths and light bills in the winter time. That was the death of a pretty good hustler. I still played pool, still played for money, but I never tried to bust people after that. I did sometimes but it was their doing, not me leading them on.



We all have to work in our own comfort zone. I have known dozens that had no bottom, others whose conscious bothered them playing for the table or a beer. A beer was all I would gamble for with a friend, if the game was right I would bet the farm with some people and have.



Hu

You've definitely had an interesting life as an actual "hustler" of sorts. You literally have done what many guys only claim they have done.

I'm obviously no world beater, but I have a comfortable life, so I rarely if ever turn down a low stakes session or two with guys that are also not world beaters. But I'm never the one who asks to play for money anymore, because I don't need it. But I do enjoy the extra pressure and thrill of playing for something nonetheless. So if someone that I randomly run into asks, I will play.

Oh, I forgot. The gambling term. To be honest, because I know that I'm a favorite over him, I really don't consider it "gambling" for me. But it certainly is for him! Sure, he can beat me a couple sets here and there, but over the long term, he just can't beat me.


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Okay, but the fair match, medium says that a 5-5 race is "fair". Maybe I misinterpreted this. What are the fair race numbers supposed to mean?
...
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You did misinterpret. The suggested handicaps on the FargoRate site never put the better player at a disadvantage. The only put the weaker player at various levels of a disadvantage. The spots make the games closer to 50-50 but only sometimes barely reach 50-50 for the largest spots.

If you want to know the match odds, use the match odds calculator.
 
Oh, I forgot. The gambling term. To be honest, because I know that I'm a favorite over him, I really don't consider it "gambling"


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I let them know right up front, “It’s not gambling, it’s a sure thing.”:wink:
 
You did misinterpret. The suggested handicaps on the FargoRate site never put the better player at a disadvantage. The only put the weaker player at various levels of a disadvantage. The spots make the games closer to 50-50 but only sometimes barely reach 50-50 for the largest spots.

If you want to know the match odds, use the match odds calculator.
I guess that's a "good thing" how they list the handicaps then. The one thing that I hate in leagues is where they try to do 100% handicapping. The league I played in last year was 80%, which seems more fair to the better players. Any pool league that says that a D player should have an exactly equal chance to beat an A player by spotting them the world, is just silly, and isn't even pool IMO. You may as well just flip a coin to see who won the match and then go practice alone. LOL
 
An update. So this guy didn't show up for 2 weeks, since he was out of money, but he came today.

When everyone else left, we flipped a coin to see what game we would play, who would break first, how long the race would be, and what we would bet.

I won every flip but how much we would bet. So we played a race to 10 in BCA 8 ball for $20. (He only had $40 to bet). I won 10-6.

Then we played a race to 10 in 9 ball. I won 10-4.

A stranger poked his nose in and challenged us to play for $100 a game. 8 ball, straight in, no slop. I beat him and he quit. Since I won the $100, I forgave the other guy his last $20 he owed me.

So what does this guy do? He immediately insists that we play another set of 9 ball for his last $20!

I beat him 10-4. LOL
 
his favorite charity

An update. So this guy didn't show up for 2 weeks, since he was out of money, but he came today.

When everyone else left, we flipped a coin to see what game we would play, who would break first, how long the race would be, and what we would bet.

I won every flip but how much we would bet. So we played a race to 10 in BCA 8 ball for $20. (He only had $40 to bet). I won 10-6.

Then we played a race to 10 in 9 ball. I won 10-4.

A stranger poked his nose in and challenged us to play for $100 a game. 8 ball, straight in, no slop. I beat him and he quit. Since I won the $100, I forgave the other guy his last $20 he owed me.

So what does this guy do? He immediately insists that we play another set of 9 ball for his last $20!

I beat him 10-4. LOL


He should list you as his favorite charity because he is sure as hell donating!

You might as well take his money until he gets smarter or your conscious gets more tender. He will gamble with someone as long as he has anything to gamble. Probably rises to the level of a sickness or addiction on his part.

I read a line many years ago, I thought Kipling but I can't find the source of the quote now, partially because I don't remember it exactly. Something like, "If a man being young and foolish wishes to gamble for golden shekels, take him my son for he was born to be taken."

Hu
 
He should list you as his favorite charity because he is sure as hell donating!



You might as well take his money until he gets smarter or your conscious gets more tender. He will gamble with someone as long as he has anything to gamble. Probably rises to the level of a sickness or addiction on his part.



I read a line many years ago, I thought Kipling but I can't find the source of the quote now, partially because I don't remember it exactly. Something like, "If a man being young and foolish wishes to gamble for golden shekels, take him my son for he was born to be taken."



Hu

Yep. The second that I forgave him of the $20 he owed me and then he then insisted that we play another set for it, was the second I decided that I have no more guilt in taking his last dime!

BTW: since I realized based on our fargo ratings that he has a slim chance of beating me, I treated him to a couple beers and pizza, just to make him feel better about losing to me.

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...BTW, since I realized based on our fargo ratings that he has a slim chance of beating me, I treated him to a couple beers and pizza, just to make him feel better about losing to me. ...
Next time, take him out for a nice Chinese dinner. Bribe the server to give him this fortune cookie:

“At gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.”

Or, maybe: "Your luck is about to change for the better.":grin-devilish:

BTW, I heard Slim left town.
 
Next time, take him out for a nice Chinese dinner. Bribe the server to give him this fortune cookie:

“At gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.”

Or, maybe: "Your luck is about to change for the better.":grin-devilish:

BTW, I heard Slim left town.

You're hysterical, Bob.

:rotflmao1:
 
Next time, take him out for a nice Chinese dinner. Bribe the server to give him this fortune cookie:



“At gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.”



Or, maybe: "Your luck is about to change for the better.":grin-devilish:



BTW, I heard Slim left town.

I think that this guy is happy to play a "decent" set every so often where it is close. Sure, he wants to win my money, but I think that making a good showing is his primary concern. Ego certainly rules the world.

I've heard that at another place that he plays for money regularly, the guys show him zero respect. Well, I'm not like that. I at least try to treat him good.


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