No, you are just making a lot of assumptions, and none of them are correct.
SVB aiming vid..................
- Thread starter garczar
- Start date
No, you are just making a lot of assumptions, and none of them are correct.
and he also says he uses 3 sections of the shaft.
Not 3 plus the sides .
ALL BS to me .
Yep. You have no clue what you are talking about, but you keep saying its bullshit.
To put it bluntly, youre wrong.
A little geometric analysis:
By dividing the shaft into fourths and (with the cue at centerball) aiming each of those fourths at the center, quarter and edge of the OB, this system is "fine grained" enough to give 100% coverage of all needed cut angles up to a 3/8 hit for shots up to about a spot shot's distance (3') from an average sized pocket (4.5"+). Assuming, of course, you can make those fine-grained alignments accurately.
Beyond the distance of a spot shot there will be cut angles that fall between the "system cut angles", requiring some estimated adjustment (more as the distance grows).
The system could include hits beyond 3/8 ball (38°) if the stick was aligned through another part of the CB (not the center).
pj
chgo
By dividing the shaft into fourths and (with the cue at centerball) aiming each of those fourths at the center, quarter and edge of the OB, this system is "fine grained" enough to give 100% coverage of all needed cut angles up to a 3/8 hit for shots up to about a spot shot's distance (3') from an average sized pocket (4.5"+). Assuming, of course, you can make those fine-grained alignments accurately.
Beyond the distance of a spot shot there will be cut angles that fall between the "system cut angles", requiring some estimated adjustment (more as the distance grows).
The system could include hits beyond 3/8 ball (38°) if the stick was aligned through another part of the CB (not the center).
pj
chgo
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He was just pointing at shaft to tell the guy that he uses shaft sides. He does NOT aim using shaft near the joint. If you don't want to believe it go ahead but you are dead wrong on this. He has told multiple people on many occasions exactly how he aims. He is not the only top player that aims likes this either.
If people can't figure out what SVB is saying, then they don't play pool well enough to discuss it and argue about it.
NOBODY aims EXACTLY the same. Our eyes, perception, bodies, and brains are DIFFERENT.
The WORST people to try to explain pool to are people who THINK THEY KNOW IT ALL, like our resident POOL SCIENTIST.
Just last Sunday, I was playing alone since the afternoon league was canceled and they usually come in at 2:00 PM and take over all the tables.
A young Japanese girl came in by herself and got the table across from the head rail of my table. I was just banging balls around and throwing them out on the table and when I looked in the direction of her table I saw she didn't have a clue about playing pool.
She had set the entire ball tray on the table and was placing them, one by one, on the table and trying to hit them with the cue stick to hit the other end of the table. The cue ball was still in the tray.
I watched her, over and over, while I was banging around, and she couldn't hold the stick or even hit the ball with the end of the stick.
After seeing this, I was getting more frustrated with her play then she probably was, so I went over to her table and showed her how to hold her cue and hit the ball.
She didn't speak fluent English, but I am able to deal with most people like that because I've been to many countries and have had to communicate with people with different languages and abilities.
After a few minutes, she was getting the hang of it and I went back to my table. When she got a little better at it, I went to her table and set up an object ball in the jaws of each of the six pockets and had her use the cue ball to see how many she could get in a row.
At first, she would miss an object ball entirely, but as she went on, she was getting better and better. I then lodged two balls in each of the pockets and had her keep going.
I didn't stay at her table during all of this, but I kept glancing over to see if she was getting the hang of everything, and she was.
She was miscuing more than most people, so I went over and taught her how to "properly" apply the chalk and she kept that up, too. When I later saw her chalking, she wasn't drilling a hole through the bottom of the chalk.
From time to time, I'd see her stray from what I'd shown her, so I'd say something or stop over to show her and tell her to keep her body aligned.
By the time an hour, or so, had went by, she was doing good for a very beginning pool player. She was even shooting some balls in (not in a row) that had strayed out into the center of the table.
Long story, short:
It is easier to teach somebody who knows "nothing" than it is to teach somebody who thinks they "know it all".
NOBODY aims EXACTLY the same. Our eyes, perception, bodies, and brains are DIFFERENT.
The WORST people to try to explain pool to are people who THINK THEY KNOW IT ALL, like our resident POOL SCIENTIST.
Just last Sunday, I was playing alone since the afternoon league was canceled and they usually come in at 2:00 PM and take over all the tables.
A young Japanese girl came in by herself and got the table across from the head rail of my table. I was just banging balls around and throwing them out on the table and when I looked in the direction of her table I saw she didn't have a clue about playing pool.
She had set the entire ball tray on the table and was placing them, one by one, on the table and trying to hit them with the cue stick to hit the other end of the table. The cue ball was still in the tray.
I watched her, over and over, while I was banging around, and she couldn't hold the stick or even hit the ball with the end of the stick.
After seeing this, I was getting more frustrated with her play then she probably was, so I went over to her table and showed her how to hold her cue and hit the ball.
She didn't speak fluent English, but I am able to deal with most people like that because I've been to many countries and have had to communicate with people with different languages and abilities.
After a few minutes, she was getting the hang of it and I went back to my table. When she got a little better at it, I went to her table and set up an object ball in the jaws of each of the six pockets and had her use the cue ball to see how many she could get in a row.
At first, she would miss an object ball entirely, but as she went on, she was getting better and better. I then lodged two balls in each of the pockets and had her keep going.
I didn't stay at her table during all of this, but I kept glancing over to see if she was getting the hang of everything, and she was.
She was miscuing more than most people, so I went over and taught her how to "properly" apply the chalk and she kept that up, too. When I later saw her chalking, she wasn't drilling a hole through the bottom of the chalk.
From time to time, I'd see her stray from what I'd shown her, so I'd say something or stop over to show her and tell her to keep her body aligned.
By the time an hour, or so, had went by, she was doing good for a very beginning pool player. She was even shooting some balls in (not in a row) that had strayed out into the center of the table.
Long story, short:
It is easier to teach somebody who knows "nothing" than it is to teach somebody who thinks they "know it all".
lol
Don’t blame me - I didn’t volunteer to live in your head.
pj <- roomy in here
chgo
PJ can get a tad technical in his explanations but he's usually right. His explanation of SVB's shaft-aim deal is spot on. It takes a little time but its a good add-on to other aiming ideas.
Only "usually"?
Thanks for noticing (and saying). It's an interesting system with more "objective coverage" than most.
pj
chgo
Only "usually"?
Thanks for noticing (and saying). It's an interesting system with more "objective coverage" than most.
pj
chgo
Other than the edges of the OB, there is estimation for the center of the OB, but if you think of the ball as a disc, and look for the highest point on the ball/disc, theres your center.
Ive played for 40 years, and when I started, I was all instinctual aim. Then I heard about ghost ball, and tried that for a while. Then went back to instinct.
The most consistency I ever added to my game, was when I broke down, by reverse engineering my aim, and I figured out that I have a 5' aiming tool in my hands.
Make the ball however you can so that you know your alignment will be consistent, then line back up and stare at the shot picture.
Some part of the tip, either the edges, or the quarter lines (A, B, C) will line up on either the center of the OB, or the edge for most shots. There are extreme cuts that will make you have an off the ball adjustment of a half inch. Thinner than that, I line up edge of CB to edge of OB. So no, it doesnt cover EVERY shot you will come up against, but in my estimation based on my own position play, and being able to hold the angles I prefer, it covers 85-90% of them. :thumbup:
Awhile back, an old-timer I know told me he'd show me a secret technique for making long thin cut shots. Anyways, he then describes to me basically what SVB is saying, or at least part of it, to aim the edge of the shaft at the edge of the ball. I'm listening to the guy and thinking, "this sounds like total bullshit, if I aim the cue edge at the ball edge that will hit WAY too thick."
The old-timer can probably see the doubt on my face so he adds, "Just try it."
I get down on the shot and the old-timer adds, "Make sure your eye is right over the edge of the cue."
I do as he says, but now looking down the shaft edge at the OB I am 100% positive that it is going to hit too thick. I shoot. And I was 100% wrong because the damn ball sliced right into the pocket!! I can't explain how it works and I'll be the first to admit that it is mathematically wrong, but... it works. One thing that is weird about this technique is that it requires a different head position whether you're cutting to the left or the right, in order to look down the shaft edge.
I won a match just today using this technique. The guy played safe on the 9, leaving it about a ball of the end rail right in the middle of the table, with the CB up in the kitchen and an 80 degree cut required. Lined it up 'old-timer' style, thought, damn that looks thick, and sliced it right in. The other guy couldn't believe it, but the ball was in the hole...
This same technique works pretty well for all cuts thinner than a half ball hit, just aim the cue edge at the contact point. Less well as the hit gets thicker. Maybe that's where SVB's adjustments kick in. YMMV
The old-timer can probably see the doubt on my face so he adds, "Just try it."
I get down on the shot and the old-timer adds, "Make sure your eye is right over the edge of the cue."
I do as he says, but now looking down the shaft edge at the OB I am 100% positive that it is going to hit too thick. I shoot. And I was 100% wrong because the damn ball sliced right into the pocket!! I can't explain how it works and I'll be the first to admit that it is mathematically wrong, but... it works. One thing that is weird about this technique is that it requires a different head position whether you're cutting to the left or the right, in order to look down the shaft edge.
I won a match just today using this technique. The guy played safe on the 9, leaving it about a ball of the end rail right in the middle of the table, with the CB up in the kitchen and an 80 degree cut required. Lined it up 'old-timer' style, thought, damn that looks thick, and sliced it right in. The other guy couldn't believe it, but the ball was in the hole...
This same technique works pretty well for all cuts thinner than a half ball hit, just aim the cue edge at the contact point. Less well as the hit gets thicker. Maybe that's where SVB's adjustments kick in. YMMV
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...misread post...
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And its usefulness doesn't stop there. It and similar systems, like fractions, are also helpful guidelines for estimating all the in-between shots.
pj
chgo
This is a good approximation method for real thin cuts at long distances. Here's why (repeated from a post of mine many years ago).
Assume we're shooting a real thin cut shot, one where the center of the ghost ball would be almost half a ball off the edge of the OB -- basically, nearly an edge-to-edge cut shot.
When the CB/OB separation is large, the OB looks much smaller than the CB. In fact, with a 13 mm ferrule, the apparent width of the ferrule in shooting position behind the CB is approximately the same as the apparent width of the OB way down table. So when you aim the side of the ferrule at the edge of the OB, you are essentially also pointing the center of the ferrule at approximately the center of the ghost ball -- just where you need to! However, it's just an approximation for accurately aiming CB edge to OB edge (or ferrule center to ghost ball center), and its effectiveness should vary as the apparent widths of the ferrule and the OB change with changes in the amount of CB/OB separation.
But when the CB/OB separation is not large, the apparent width of the ferrule in shooting position behind the CB is smaller than the apparent width of the OB. So aiming the side of the ferrule at the edge of the OB is then not the same as aiming the center of the ferrule a half ball off the edge of the OB, and further adjustments would be needed to make this technique work.
Yes, he is pointing to a specific spot on the shaft.
I don't think he's laughing at any poor souls either.
But if you don't understand what he's doing, then it appears that he's trying to sell snake oil.
I understand you're frustration, its hard explain to most people. But it might be impossible to explain it to someone that is sure it's bullshit.
Anyway, I think that Shane is pointing to a specific spot on the shaft closer to the joint.
He is using the left, right or center (top) edge of his ferrule because they are "known" reference points, as are the edges of the object ball.
So if he has a shot with a cut angle that doesn't line up with the ferrule due to distance/angle, he lines up on the side of the shaft at a larger diameter closer to the joint. This allows him to still use a known edge to line up his shot.
If you were to line up a shot like this, using the shaft near the joint and the outside of the object ball, then without moving follow the shaft with your eyes to the ferrule, you will see a gap between the object ball and the ferrule.
It's the same principle as target rifle shooters use by changing sight apertures for different distance targets. The apertures are different diameter, to compensate for distance or depth of field to the target.
How he knows what diameter on the cue to use? I'm sure he reverse engineered it just like you did.
This is getting better.
Look at the attached picture.
On really thin cuts, the left side of the ferrule will have to be aimed at AIR.
Not the side of the object ball.
Attachments
Joey started a thread called Shane's System Experimentation back in 2012. In posts 7 and 24 member LAMas showed via autocad drawings where the edge of the cue tip had to be to make various cut shots. For cuts of 45 degrees or greater the edge of the ferrule is outside of the edge of the object ball. It is obvious that with the description of the system in the video that those thin cuts simply won't be made. https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?262840&p=3436507#post3436507
This is a misconception. With the side of the ferrule aimed at the OB’s edge, the center of the ferrule is aimed 1/2 ferrule off the OB’s edge, the same at any distance.
Imagine a train on a straight stretch of track. It’s left side is aligned straight along the left rail and it’s right side is aligned straight along the right rail no matter how near or far you look - even though the rails in the distance look closer together.
pj
chgo
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This is being made much harder than it is.
For every successful alignment (ie lined up correctly to pocket the ball), the tip of the cue is pointed at something. One of the five alignment options will line up with either the center of the object ball, or the edge of the object ball for most shots.
For shots that do not lie within that range, you have to learn how to be precise with a visual estimation off the edge of the ob.
It is really not difficult, its not magic. You still have to accurately align your stroke to the line, and stroke straight on the line.
Its just a visual trick to align to the shot. Nothing more, nothing less.
For every successful alignment (ie lined up correctly to pocket the ball), the tip of the cue is pointed at something. One of the five alignment options will line up with either the center of the object ball, or the edge of the object ball for most shots.
For shots that do not lie within that range, you have to learn how to be precise with a visual estimation off the edge of the ob.
It is really not difficult, its not magic. You still have to accurately align your stroke to the line, and stroke straight on the line.
Its just a visual trick to align to the shot. Nothing more, nothing less.
Exactly !
So now when that shot comes up you have a choice. Do I aim using an estimated air gap, or do I use a different location on the shaft that intersects with the edge of the object ball, due to being a larger diameter at that location?
Either way, you have to learn the air gap or the location of the shaft to aim from. By the way, this pertains only to what Shane is discussing in the video, not every aiming system.
If you set up that shot on the pool table, then get down and aim it, you'll see the air gap between the ferrule and the object ball. Without moving, visually follow the shaft toward the joint, where the edge of shaft intersects with the object ball is the aim point.
You can mark the shaft at that location with a small piece of tape and practice until you learn it. If your shots are consistently going thick or thin, adjust the tape up or down until you find the correct location.
I can't speak for Shane Van Boening, but for me, when everything is on the line, the stress is high, my adrenaline is pumping, it affects my vision. Having an exact aim point over a guesstimated air gap yields a higher percentage of success for me.
If you go back and watch the video it will make more sense now. Start watching where they begin to discuss aiming. Shane says it's how he's always aimed, the edge of the ferrule works for most shots, but when it doesn't this is how he does it. He also says he has several locations on the shaft he uses for different shots.
Good luck. Have fun with it, even if you don't adopt it!