Anyone got any info on this: LAWSUIT IN CHINA: BRUNSWICK BILLIARDS VS. YALIN ??????
I heard this from a solid source in China. Anyone have any input?
TFT
I heard this from a solid source in China. Anyone have any input?
TFT
Lawsuit in china: Brunswick billiards vs. Yalin ??????
- Thread starter trentfromtoledo
- Start date
The Chinese don’t have any laws. Copy copy copy copy.
<==== I’ve been to China 10 times and seen it with my own eyes.
<==== I’ve been to China 10 times and seen it with my own eyes.
Why would they sue their own partner?? Have they been selling Brunswick-labeled tables without permission? I could see them getting sued for that. Good luck with case. Business law/ethics enforcement in China is a murky deal on a good day. Try asking Yalin.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/yalinbilliard/about/?ref=page_internal That table in the pic is a Yalin-marked GC5.
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People in Asia do one thing well, CLONE American ideas, and products.
Yalin has been making B'wick stuff for quite a while. IF they are getting sued they must have really gone off the rails. As i said above, my guess would be selling tables labeled as B'wicks and not Yalin. They made/make like 95% of GC5's and 6's. B'wick made(or sourced) the pockets and some of the ball-return parts. A certain %age has to made in the US for legal reasons.
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Well two member here on AZB had problem with their Chinese partner, both shall we say got the shaft.
Jack Justis allowed a Chinese Company to do a Justis West Case, apprently the deal did not go will for Jack.
JBCases partnered with as Chinese company to do his JFlower Tribute Case, again the deal went south. Now the same company is selling JFlower everything from Cue to you name it. JFlowers made cases, never made cues until the Chinnese decided to use the name.
Chinese companies make just about everything you can think of and they use E-bay to sell their stuff, and Amazon.
Jack Justis allowed a Chinese Company to do a Justis West Case, apprently the deal did not go will for Jack.
JBCases partnered with as Chinese company to do his JFlower Tribute Case, again the deal went south. Now the same company is selling JFlower everything from Cue to you name it. JFlowers made cases, never made cues until the Chinnese decided to use the name.
Chinese companies make just about everything you can think of and they use E-bay to sell their stuff, and Amazon.
I got scammed out of $87000 by a Chinese “supplier” a few years ago. Since then every time I see the word China I get a bad feeling in my stomach.
How many Brunswick tables are sold each year?
It's pretty obvious looking at Diamond & some other smaller niche producers that they could be made in the US & make money. Just not the kind of "free" (multi-?)thousand$ profit per table merely from sourcing elsewhere and slapping the Brunswick label on it.
smt
It's pretty obvious looking at Diamond & some other smaller niche producers that they could be made in the US & make money. Just not the kind of "free" (multi-?)thousand$ profit per table merely from sourcing elsewhere and slapping the Brunswick label on it.
smt
Brunswick quit paying serious attention to pool years ago. It was their legacy product so they just decided to farm them out and delude people into thinking they were still made here. All they do is assemble and ship. The tables have just enough US-sourced parts to be legally marked "Made in USA". IIRC on the GC5's&6's all they make are pockets and ball-return gulleys. Everything else comes from the big rice bowl in the east. Slate may still be from Brazil, idk for sure. B'wick Billiards is part of Life Fitness and they are currently owned by KPS, a big investment bank. The future of the billiards co. is anyones' guess.
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I think most in the pool world are well aware of this by now.
Hence my question: "How many Brunswick branded tables are sold per year" Essentially at extravagant mark-up.
It could give some insight into what the market potential might be for new US based manufacturing. We've got all the raw materials. In some cases (perhaps some lumber) they are being shipped to China and then traveling back again as finished product.
smt
Unless you know someone at Life Fitness the actual production #'s are going to be hard to come by. I'm going to msg them and see if i get any response. I think people would be shocked(maybe not) at what it actually costs B'wick to produce the Gold Crowns they ask 10grand for. The fact that a Diamond Pro is roughly half the price says a lot. The factory in China that B'wick makes up to 20,000 table per year. I think Diamond #'s are around 1,500/yr but i'm not positive.
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Exactly.
Might even exist an argument that Diamond uses better materials as well. However some material choices may be down to customer preference /familiarity (e.g. formica rails for B'wick)
Diamond appears to be made essentially complete in Indiana.
Some parts may be sourced world wide.
As has been noted in other posts - hard to tell where slate comes from these days unless Diamond says?
smt
They do not respect international copyright laws
This is and always have been a serious issue with doing any business with the Chinese. Period. They do not respect copyright laws. They also have clauses in the agreements that allow the Chinese Communist Party to take government ownership of the plant (nationalize) at any time they so choose for those businesses that were greedy enough and stupid enough to do deals with the devil and build manufacturing plants in China. I am doing my best to not buy anything made in China. I am going out of my way and paying more if I have to in order to not buy Chinese. If any of my projects for my job require new formulations, I am looking for non-Chinese ingredients. I will do my damn best to not buy from Amazon even if the goods on Amazon are not made in China. It is not always possible to buy non-Chinese and that is a result of the last 40 years of policy here in the United States by both sides of the aisle. Not to mention the quality of products made there is often subpar or made cutting corners. They have no respect for environmental laws, ethical business practices, ethical labor practices, etc. Until the CCP is overthrown by the people and real changes are made, I don't see it getting better anytime soon.
This is and always have been a serious issue with doing any business with the Chinese. Period. They do not respect copyright laws. They also have clauses in the agreements that allow the Chinese Communist Party to take government ownership of the plant (nationalize) at any time they so choose for those businesses that were greedy enough and stupid enough to do deals with the devil and build manufacturing plants in China. I am doing my best to not buy anything made in China. I am going out of my way and paying more if I have to in order to not buy Chinese. If any of my projects for my job require new formulations, I am looking for non-Chinese ingredients. I will do my damn best to not buy from Amazon even if the goods on Amazon are not made in China. It is not always possible to buy non-Chinese and that is a result of the last 40 years of policy here in the United States by both sides of the aisle. Not to mention the quality of products made there is often subpar or made cutting corners. They have no respect for environmental laws, ethical business practices, ethical labor practices, etc. Until the CCP is overthrown by the people and real changes are made, I don't see it getting better anytime soon.
For those who don't know, many "name" brand products are made in the SAME factory where their knock-offs are also made. For instance real Nike running shoes are made during the day shifts at several large factories there and the knock-offs of those same shoes are made in the same factory on the night shift! Been there, seen that! The same thing applies to many "high quality" women's shoes, purses, etc. And the list goes on and on and on. And that's the name of that tune.
Almost all the tools and equipment you can buy at Harbor Freight come from China. Same with goods you buy at discount chains like Ross, Burlingame and TJ Max, all of whom sell knock-off products with name brands on them.
Almost all the tools and equipment you can buy at Harbor Freight come from China. Same with goods you buy at discount chains like Ross, Burlingame and TJ Max, all of whom sell knock-off products with name brands on them.
One can’t paint China with a generic paint brush. Way too big and diverse. Their manufacturing sector swarmps anything in the West outside of the aerospace industry.
Our lab used to buy off the shelf microscopes from Switzerland for about 15k until the the early 1990’s. Now we can get Them from a Chinese supplier customized to our own specs for $6k ...Top notch quality.
Joy Chinese 8 ball tables are as good as any table I’ve played on Outside of a few high end British snooker tables.
There’s lots of ‘iffy’ Chinese goods at lower level products but decent, for the most part at higher levels. The key is to establish a contact via Alibaba or Aliexpress. Tell them what you want and let them find it.
Our lab used to buy off the shelf microscopes from Switzerland for about 15k until the the early 1990’s. Now we can get Them from a Chinese supplier customized to our own specs for $6k ...Top notch quality.
Joy Chinese 8 ball tables are as good as any table I’ve played on Outside of a few high end British snooker tables.
There’s lots of ‘iffy’ Chinese goods at lower level products but decent, for the most part at higher levels. The key is to establish a contact via Alibaba or Aliexpress. Tell them what you want and let them find it.
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The BOC (Bank of China) is now buying up commercial jets from United, American and Southwest, and leasing them back to the respective airline companies. This is a way for the airlines to get additional cash, even though they got billions in the recent stimulus bills already. Why this is a little unsettling is that now China has ownership rights in many of our country's biggest airline companies. In other words they have us over a barrel with our ass exposed. If push comes to shove, they can control our airways and commercial travel. One more way China has outsmarted the current administration. They gain control/win using money, not guns. They are doing this all over Southeast Asia, loaning many billions to all the smaller countries in the area to prop up their economy. They've got liens on everybody if need be!
If you do any business outside of Alibaba’s verified suppliers you gotta be very careful. There are many pro scammers who steal for a living. I spent a few years trying to get the 87 thousand back and learned a lot in the process. They are really good at what they do, I have a college degree and have started successful businesses. It can happen to anyone. A good rule of thumb, if you haven't met them in person assume all the stamps and signatures are fake. If you can’t see the goods with your own eyes they don’t exist. Boots on the ground is a must. They know you have no protection and will be at a huge disadvantage should you decide to fly out and look for them. Especially if you don’t speak Mandarin. The scammers who stole from me operate under a dozen different names and there are at least 8 other victims around the world I’m aware of. The most shocking part was when I placed ads in US looking for help how many emails I’ve gotten from the random Chinese responding to my ad saying “haha ha you stupid American this is hilarious!” or “this made my day so happy to hear you got fked!” Obviously there are countless of incredible Chinese people but the propaganda they are exposed to domestically is a thing and a large number of them hate Americans.
I personally don’t deal in thousands.Most I’ve had ‘out there’ is likely $300.. I’ve had a contact for about 15 years. I just tell him what I want...an electric guitar with these specs...$200. Next month a type of bicycle helmet...$9. Designer ‘whatever’...$25. A certain toy, etc. I’ve had zero problems.
I have no idea how they do it, I can get a custom part delivered for an electric guitar in the mail for $9, free shipping. Same thing here would be $75 if even available. Friend rebuilds cars for a hobby...uncanny what’s available from China.