All new American Pro Tour! NBL - National Billiards League

[jsp]

My only request is that PLAYERS do their part and participate in their local AMATEUR ONLY Qualifiers for $150 where the top 8 out of the 32 max players win cash that day just like any other weekly tournament, weekend tour stop or monthly event.

The top 8 players win cash via money raised from preceding satellite events run locally and/or Calcutta where allowed.

I have the same concerns/questions as Scrunge19 on this. How exactly are the top 8 getting paid? You say there will be money from satellite events and/or Calcuttas, but I don't see that as guarantees. And if there is little to no money coming in from these things, then I see very little incentive for someone like me who probably won't win a qualifier to pay $150 in a tournament in which I'm most likely not going to break even even if I do place in the top 4. I also don't see much of an incentive for the pool hall to hold these qualifiers if the TD and venue only get $600 total...especially if the pool hall is forced to hold satellite events in order to pay prize money to the top 8.

I think the overriding assumption is that amateur pool players across the nation will be willing to simply pay $150 to enter these qualifiers, not because of any realistic hope of winning the qualifier and/or winning some of that money back in prize money, but simply because it will support the survival of this league. I hope you're right, but I just don't see it happening. I can imagine myself spending $30-$40 to enter a tournament with no hopes of winning my money back but knowing my money will help support a pool tour such as this. But not $150.

Good luck with your endeavor and I sincerely wish you the best.

 

[Sandman]

I have the same concerns/questions as Scrunge19 on this. How exactly are the top 8 getting paid? You say there will be money from satellite events and/or Calcuttas, but I don't see that as guarantees. And if there is little to no money coming in from these things, then I see very little incentive for someone like me who probably won't win a qualifier to pay $150 in a tournament in which I'm most likely not going to break even even if I do place in the top 4. I also don't see much of an incentive for the pool hall to hold these qualifiers if the TD and venue only get $600 total...especially if the pool hall is forced to hold satellite events in order to pay prize money to the top 8.

I think the overriding assumption is that amateur pool players across the nation will be willing to simply pay $150 to enter these qualifiers, not because of any realistic hope of winning the qualifier and/or winning some of that money back in prize money, but simply because it will support the survival of this league. I hope you're right, but I just don't see it happening. I can imagine myself spending $30-$40 to enter a tournament with no hopes of winning my money back but knowing my money will help support a pool tour such as this. But not $150.

Good luck with your endeavor and I sincerely wish you the best.

I appreciate your honest opinions and it may not be for everyone. The format of the events being a short race to 5 with alternate breaks has proven to provide the greatest opportunity for B class players and up to cash the majority of the time. If you don’t feel you can win a race to 5 alternate break tournament and come in the top 8 out of 32 local players, it may not be for you OR you may not be prepared to compete in a mid level tournament. Please pass it on to someone you think IS a good fit and put them in or buy them in the Calcutta and enjoy.

 

[Sandman]

I have the same concerns/questions as Scrunge19 on this. How exactly are the top 8 getting paid? You say there will be money from satellite events and/or Calcuttas, but I don't see that as guarantees. And if there is little to no money coming in from these things, then I see very little incentive for someone like me who probably won't win a qualifier to pay $150 in a tournament in which I'm most likely not going to break even even if I do place in the top 4. I also don't see much of an incentive for the pool hall to hold these qualifiers if the TD and venue only get $600 total...especially if the pool hall is forced to hold satellite events in order to pay prize money to the top 8.

I think the overriding assumption is that amateur pool players across the nation will be willing to simply pay $150 to enter these qualifiers, not because of any realistic hope of winning the qualifier and/or winning some of that money back in prize money, but simply because it will support the survival of this league. I hope you're right, but I just don't see it happening. I can imagine myself spending $30-$40 to enter a tournament with no hopes of winning my money back but knowing my money will help support a pool tour such as this. But not $150.

Good luck with your endeavor and I sincerely wish you the best.

I appreciate your honest opinions and it may not be for everyone. The format of the events being a short race to 5 with alternate breaks has proven to provide the greatest opportunity for B class players and up to cash the majority of the time. If you don’t feel you can win a race to 5 alternate break tournament and come in the top 8 out of 32 local players, it may not be for you OR you may not be prepared to compete in a mid level tournament. Please pass it on to someone you think IS a good fit and put them in or buy them in the Calcutta and enjoy.

 

[Ssonerai]

Looking at your logo first initially confused me. Thought at first it was NAPA
Sure, despite looking like they are 2 options from one design studio in the same general outline, colors, and "feel"; they are different and (generally) face opposite direction. Nevertheless, it will cause me to do a double take, pause, and mental scramble to verify, for a while.
Is this intentional? Is there a connection?

 

[jsp]

I appreciate your honest opinions and it may not be for everyone. The format of the events being a short race to 5 with alternate breaks has proven to provide the greatest opportunity for B class players and up to cash the majority of the time. If you don’t feel you can win a race to 5 alternate break tournament and come in the top 8 out of 32 local players, it may not be for you OR you may not be prepared to compete in a mid level tournament. Please pass it on to someone you think IS a good fit and put them in or buy them in the Calcutta and enjoy.

Thanks for the reply.

It'll be a stretch for me to outright win a qualifier against the good local players in my area, but I can see myself placing in the top 8 out of 32 local players. If top 8 means that you get your $150 fee back, then I would take a stab and participate in a qualifier. But like you said, the top 8 prize money is from satellites and calcuttas, so can those things really generate enough revenue to pay decent cash for 8th place?

I think this entire tour hinges on the prize money of the top 8 spots in these qualifiers. Assuming one doesn't win the qualifier, is it really worth the $150 investment entry fee?

 

[sparkle84]

It seems everyone's main question here concerns the amateur side of this. I also wonder about this.
I can see a bunch of A/B players jumping on board at first but jumping ship after they realize they can't win.
Joe Tucker ran into the same problem. Among others.
That aside, I think the bigger problem is the pro side of the equation. I wish you all the luck in the world Ed but to think 64 players will put up 1K plus expenses every 3 months is wildly unrealistic.
I'd be willing to bet you won't get 64 the 1st time around and it'll go down from there. Sincerely hope I'm wrong.

 

[u12armresl]

It seems everyone's main question here concerns the amateur side of this. I also wonder about this.
I can see a bunch of A/B players jumping on board at first but jumping ship after they realize they can't win.
Joe Tucker ran into the same problem. Among others.
That aside, I think the bigger problem is the pro side of the equation. I wish you all the luck in the world Ed but to think 64 players will put up 1K plus expenses every 3 months is wildly unrealistic.
I'd be willing to bet you won't get 64 the 1st time around and it'll go down from there. Sincerely hope I'm wrong.

What does that say about pool with all these challenge matches and you think that 64 people across the us can't or won't put up 1k every 3 months. I'd stake a player for this, are there not 63 others who will do the same? Do we need a sticky for people who want to sponsor?

 

[Sandman]

There are thousands of weekly tournaments that amateurs play in for $50-$100 (some handicapped, some open) and there is nothing to aspire to other than "there's always next week".

In the Northeast alone, we are OVER saturated with Pro/Am and other tours each weekend of the month with $100 entry fees plus Calcuttas that generate thousands of dollars regularly.

WE ARE ALL AREADY DOING THIS all across the country but separately. This is the same thing but organized with 32 locations and 32 Tour Directors working together for once at a cost of an extra $50 to allow for a HUGE stage 2 event.

To all those ASSUMING "amateurs can't win" I'll bet that MULTIPLE amateurs WILL place in the top 40% of the field AT A CLEAR PROFIT!

The ONLY 2 obstacles we currently face are COVID SHUTDOWNS delaying thigs and throwing off the schedule and PLAYER PARTICIPATION due to skepticism or being ill informed.

 

[Sandman]

It seems everyone's main question here concerns the amateur side of this. I also wonder about this.
I can see a bunch of A/B players jumping on board at first but jumping ship after they realize they can't win.
Joe Tucker ran into the same problem. Among others.
That aside, I think the bigger problem is the pro side of the equation. I wish you all the luck in the world Ed but to think 64 players will put up 1K plus expenses every 3 months is wildly unrealistic.
I'd be willing to bet you won't get 64 the 1st time around and it'll go down from there. Sincerely hope I'm wrong.

It is indeed a concern as player participation by amateur players find 1,000 reasons why they "cant win" or cant hang with a pro". That has been addressed AND TESTED at my pool room for a few years now. I'm APPLYING that solution in the NBL format...
Stage 1 qualifiers are for AMATEURS ONLY. The winner of each advances to Stage 2, The Main Event on a TOTALLY FREE RIDE PLUS SOME! (Nothing to lose and already UP MONEY!) The 1st round of the main event, all 64 amateurs play EACH OTHER guaranteeing 32 of them advance on the A side and the same with the professionals. The races are shorter races and alternate break. The top 48 spots out of the total 128 players win $1,000 - $30,000. (Visit the website for total prize breakdown) In ALL SPORTS, the top performers earn more money and win more often. HOWEVER, in the NBL we are leveling out the opportunities for amateurs by seeding the first round as mentioned above and advancing 1/2 of them, allowing them a FREE shot to earn MORE money at the main event and formatting it so WINNING matches is VERY attainable.

Professional American player participation has been an issue in the past at open events. That was MAINLY due to the fact that most large events are open to all the traveling "World-beaters" to come to America and rob our events from the handful of competitive players we have. The pros I've spoken to a year ago about this series of event and prize purse breakdwon are actually VERY excited to get in especially with 1/2 the field being good amateurs and the other 1/2 being AMERICAN PROS ONLY.

The NBL requires ALL participants to be AMERICAN RESIDENTS with proof of residency. (Immonen, Shaw, Souquet, Hohmann etc. ARE eligible)

 

[iusedtoberich]

Why did you go with 8 ball for half the events? No serious player I know touches that game. If you are looking for $100 qualifier entry fees as opposed to $5 entry fees, you are clearly targeting serious players, not bar bangers. I know one guy from my home room in Philly, an open player, cashed in 2 of Barry's US Open's.... He would play about every year in the Hopkins pro event. One year Hopkins made it 8 ball, and this player was pissed and did not enter. He was like "who the f plays 8 ball!"

 

[iusedtoberich]

What will be your contingency plan if there are 36 qualifiers held instead of 64, and if 13 people on average show up at each one? And on the main stage, if 27 pros put up 1000 instead of 64? Can everything scale down? Or will the main event be canceled?

 

[garczar]

Why did you go with 8 ball for half the events? No serious player I know touches that game. If you are looking for $100 qualifier entry fees as opposed to $5 entry fees, you are clearly targeting serious players, not bar bangers. I know one guy from my home room in Philly, an open player, cashed in 2 of Barry's US Open's.... He would play about every year in the Hopkins pro event. One year Hopkins made it 8 ball, and this player was pissed and did not enter. He was like "who the f plays 8 ball!"

8b is tough. I know a lot of 9b players that can't play it for s^*t. Ever watch any of the IPT matches? Some great pool was played. You have to think, play good patterns and there is little or no luck involved.

 

[iusedtoberich]

8b is tough. I know a lot of 9b players that can't play it for s^*t. Ever watch any of the IPT matches? Some great pool was played. You have to think, play good patterns and there is little or no luck involved.

Yeah its tough for sure, and yes I watched all of those matches when they were on tv. But once someone on the local level graduates from banger to "wannabe player" they rarely play 8 ball again unless they are at a work function with co-worker bangers, etc. At the pool hall, its all 9 ball, one pocket, banks, straight, etc, depending on location and era. But never 8 ball.

 

[garczar]

Best way for good players to play it is 'take what you make' instead of having a choice if making a ball on break. I used to run with this cat who could REALLY play 8b. We made way more money with 8b 'cause you could hide your speed better. Also most every bar/tavern had 8b events. It was literally like stealing the $$.

Yeah its tough for sure, and yes I watched all of those matches when they were on tv. But once someone on the local level graduates from banger to "wannabe player" they rarely play 8 ball again unless they are at a work function with co-worker bangers, etc. At the pool hall, its all 9 ball, one pocket, banks, straight, etc, depending on location and era. But never 8 ball.

 

[Sandman]

Looking at your logo first initially confused me. Thought at first it was NAPA
Sure, despite looking like they are 2 options from one design studio in the same general outline, colors, and "feel"; they are different and (generally) face opposite direction. Nevertheless, it will cause me to do a double take, pause, and mental scramble to verify, for a while.
Is this intentional? Is there a connection?

The design was made to symbolize an all American pro sports organization and resemble the main stream sports logos such as the NBA, MLB, etc.. Relatability is very important in attracting NEW viewers and fans.

 

[Sandman]

Why did you go with 8 ball for half the events? No serious player I know touches that game. If you are looking for $100 qualifier entry fees as opposed to $5 entry fees, you are clearly targeting serious players, not bar bangers. I know one guy from my home room in Philly, an open player, cashed in 2 of Barry's US Open's.... He would play about every year in the Hopkins pro event. One year Hopkins made it 8 ball, and this player was pissed and did not enter. He was like "who the f plays 8 ball!"

LMAO I used to say the same thing. However, 8-Ball is actually a beautiful game but lost respect when it was played by all the low level amateurs playing it. So WHY now?
1) Eight Ball is the MOST RECOGNIZED and played game on the planet! "Stripes vs. Solids" as it's called by many 1st time players or one and done players is easy to follow and understand for SPECTATORS and those that want to see it at a higher level.
2) Eight Ball showcases strategy, pattern play and safety play while 10-Ball showcases more power stroke shots and rotation style of play.
*Both disciplines exercise INTENTIONAL SHOT play in their official rules also which should be implemented in a pro league.

There is a LOT more interest in 8-Ball out there nowadays than you may think! English 8-Ball, BlackBall, Chinese 8-Ball etc.

 

[tommypabs]

Ed, I applaud and appreciate your efforts promoting the sport over the years! Your passion and love for pool is evident by your action. Pool needs people to step up and send the sport in the right direction. I am seeing more dedicated young players lately and it gives me hope. Perhaps the timing is right (Covid aside). Participation is key, I am excited to see where this goes. League players don’t realize how much they spend a month. $150 isn’t a lot to spend at a tournament every once and a while. Most players grow from the experience. Granted it will not be for everyone, but there are plenty of players buying CF shafts and $30 chalk who seem to take their game serious. Equipment companies don’t seem to be hurting. The players are out there for sure. A grand organized league is good for anyone who wants to improve.

 

[jokrswylde]

Why did you go with 8 ball for half the events? No serious player I know touches that game. If you are looking for $100 qualifier entry fees as opposed to $5 entry fees, you are clearly targeting serious players, not bar bangers. I know one guy from my home room in Philly, an open player, cashed in 2 of Barry's US Open's.... He would play about every year in the Hopkins pro event. One year Hopkins made it 8 ball, and this player was pissed and did not enter. He was like "who the f plays 8 ball!"

This only personal preference of course, but I would much rather watch a competitive 8 ball race than 9 ball...orneven 10 ball. Watching run out players connect the dots rack after rack gets boring after a while...especially when the wing ball is wired. Watching those same players have to navigate clusters and 8 other balls they can't shoot at, while still planning their pattern is much more intriguing to me. Again, my personal preference...

But then again, I don't mind being a bar banger

 

[Sandman]

I have the same concerns/questions as Scrunge19 on this. How exactly are the top 8 getting paid? You say there will be money from satellite events and/or Calcuttas, but I don't see that as guarantees. And if there is little to no money coming in from these things, then I see very little incentive for someone like me who probably won't win a qualifier to pay $150 in a tournament in which I'm most likely not going to break even even if I do place in the top 4. I also don't see much of an incentive for the pool hall to hold these qualifiers if the TD and venue only get $600 total...especially if the pool hall is forced to hold satellite events in order to pay prize money to the top 8.

I think the overriding assumption is that amateur pool players across the nation will be willing to simply pay $150 to enter these qualifiers, not because of any realistic hope of winning the qualifier and/or winning some of that money back in prize money, but simply because it will support the survival of this league. I hope you're right, but I just don't see it happening. I can imagine myself spending $30-$40 to enter a tournament with no hopes of winning my money back but knowing my money will help support a pool tour such as this. But not $150.

Good luck with your endeavor and I sincerely wish you the best.

Nobody is assuming players will play to support the tour. The ONLY assumption being made is that amateurs can't win. That is COMPLETELY UNTRUE. That's already been proven false various times at the 100's of events I've hosted, devised and have been a part of over the last 10 years. Out of 32amateurs at the Stage 1 events, 8 will win cash (ALREADY BEING GENERATED) and then get a FREE shot at a $200,000 prize purse AND play another amateur in the 1st round guaranteed. At the main event, 32 amateurs advance to the winners side. Never before has that been done!
PS, If you tell yourself you cant win, YOU'RE RIGHT! That's a very poor mindset. I've actually coached players and got them to play a ball better after 1 simple 2-hour lesson. As a matter of fact, my weekly 9-ball tournament paid out the top 6 of 24 players and 4 out of 6 were bottom level players! 1st place winner, 4th, 5th & 6th. The 2nd place and 3rd place finishers were mid level players. The 3 top ranked players DID NOT WIN. My point is, the proper format allows the lesser player opportunities to win. They only have to have the proper mindset. It's been PROVEN time and time again.

 

[pogmothoin]

I certainly hope this takes off. It wouldn't suck having a real tour to generate interest in the sport while also providing a way for pro's to make some money. Do the economics really work for the pros? I have no idea, but as an amateur I'm looking to have some fun. I put my $150 in as soon as I heard about it. Not because I think I'll win but because I love the game and enjoy competing to the best of my ability. I've pissed away more money for less reasons. I won't be quitting my day job anytime soon, but I'll have some fun playing against some quality opponents. Will I do it a second time? More? I guess that depends on the overall experience. Time will tell.

I don't know Ed well but I've been to his room over the years and this is a project he has been working on for some time, it's not a hasty effort. The guy is sincere in my opinion, does that mean it will really succeed, of course not. It does mean that I'm willing to support the effort, I know of other players in my area that feel the same. Worse case scenario? I lose two and go home but I've supported a sport that I enjoy. Good luck Ed.