What does Team USA’s Mosconi Cup future look like?

[Brozif]

Very curious as to what Team USA’s looks like in future Mosconi Cups? Team Europe could put out this same team for the next five years and dominate any American team! Their oldest member is Shaw and he still plays super strong! Team USA’s best player is SVB, but not in the Mosconi Cup. I have to give that edge to Skyler. So in the future who plays on Team USA that could even challenge Team Europe?

 

[MattPoland]

Shane, Billy, Sky and Justin are fine for our future. We need a strong fifth man and Chris could grow into that role and Tyler plus a few others should be clawing for that spot. We just need to brace for when Shane is no longer looked upon as the star of the team and instead is treated as a middling teammate. What if he doesn’t become a Ralf Souquet and stay at a high standard for decades longer? Are we ready to face how to groom our future teams for that possibility?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[ChrisinNC]

Shane, Billy, Sky and Justin are fine for our future. We need a strong fifth man and Chris could grow into that role and Tyler plus a few others should be clawing for that spot. We just need to brace for when Shane is no longer looked upon as the star of the team and instead is treated as a middling teammate. What if he doesn’t become a Ralf Souquet and stay at a high standard for decades longer? Are we ready to face how to groom our future teams for that possibility?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

There is no question after two days that Cory was clearly not a good substitute pick which was obviously based only on his experience. However, it would not have significantly changed the outcome this year.

I like what I’ve seen so far from Chris Robinson, particularly compared to Cory. Although he doesn’t play like he used to, it’s very hard to think of not including Shane on this team anytime soon, considering the alternatives.

 

[MattPoland]

There is no question after two days that Cory was clearly not a good substitute pick which was obviously based only on his experience. However, it would not have significantly changed the outcome this year.

I like what I’ve seen so far from Chris Robinson, particularly compared to Cory. Although he doesn’t play like he used to, it’s very hard to think of not including Shane on this team anytime soon, considering the alternatives.

I’m trying to picture next year vs five years from now vs ten years from now. It’s super easy to picture that for team Europe. I guess our future probably lies in some kids playing in junior nationals that we haven’t paid attention to yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[jay helfert]

Shane, Billy, Sky and Justin are fine for our future. We need a strong fifth man and Chris could grow into that role and Tyler plus a few others should be clawing for that spot. We just need to brace for when Shane is no longer looked upon as the star of the team and instead is treated as a middling teammate. What if he doesn’t become a Ralf Souquet and stay at a high standard for decades longer? Are we ready to face how to groom our future teams for that possibility?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

There's nothing wrong with that team that a healthy dose of International competition wouldn't help. So far only Shane has seen fit to compete all over the world. If these other guys want to keep up, they need to follow suit or fall behind. I have no doubt that could get the necessary sponsorship to do so if they wanted to.

 

[Swighey]

They just need to find a way to beat Team Europe. Last time they were all beat up, people didn't hold much hope - but in 2018 they turned it around and repeated the feat in 2019. One thing they can do better is to endear themselves to short races. Long "races to Shane" let you get "in the zone" where your A game (that can only ever be sustained in practice mode) has a chance to come to the fore. For short races, you need to be playing near your best straight out of the gate. That means you need a strong B game that is close to your A game. That B game can't be developed as effectively in long races where, except when you are close to the hill, there can only ever pressure on you if the other guy has you "sitting in your seat".

I've seen thousands of players whose A game competes with the best players on the planet. The reality though is that most players' B games are a long way off their A games. All of those players on Team USA have B games that hold up pretty well but the truth is that Team Europe's B and A games are closer together.

 

[sjm]

Looking forward five years, I suspect SVB is gone. Justin Bergman, I suspect, will be the best player on Team USA. The only reason that Bergman, America's most complete player, would have won some of the big stuff if he broke the balls better, but at the Mosconi, with the one on the spot and alternate break, the break holds him back far less. At the Mosconi, everyone gets to play, and Bergman's well-rounded game, that includes exceptional defense and kicking, has often fared well there.

Skyler and Billy are capable players, and they are still young, but I feel they still need a little more development if Team USA is to be a formidable squad capable of beating Team Europe more than once every few years. I agree with Jay that to take this step, these two players may need to start playing the top WPA sanctioned international events. Unless I miss my guess, no American has won a major WPA sanctioned event (World 9-ball, China Open and All-Japan Championships) overseas since Earl won in Cardiff in 2002. It's a big advantage to compete with the world's most elite players on a very regular basis, and neither Billy nor Skyler gets enough opportunities. Yes, they will need some sponsorship.

The remainder of the American team will depend on the continuing emergence of some of America's youngest players. Chris Robinson has been showing a lot of form for a 22 year old at this Mosconi, and Tyler Styer is already somewhat accomplished at 24, but I really wonder whether either will ever be counted among the game's most elite. Time will tell.

I'm not inclined to agree with Jay here that America's core is strong enough to compete successfully long-term at the Mosconi, so I feel American fortunes will be dependent on the emergence of some young players as stars of the game. It's hard to be really optimistic, though, as American performance in the Junior World Championships has been pretty forgettable in recent years. What American players on the horizon are there to get excited about? In Europe, Kaci, Gorst and Filler all earned a spot on Team Europe by the age of 20, and there are not that many nine ball players in Europe. Where are America's rising stars? Has America had any 20 year old (or younger) players worth getting excited about since Billy and Skyler?

I guess I'm just a little worried about the state of American pool. Europe and Asia are mass producing new stars of the game, but America is not. Surely, the solution to changing this must lie in training, with the greatest burden falling on the pool instruction profession, but as Jay correctly points out, it also lies in giving the top American players an opportunity to compete against the truly elite as often as the top Europeans do, thereby giving them a chance to fully develop their skills and competitive pedigrees.

In short, I see Team USA as continuing to be the clear underdog at the Mosconi Cup for years to come unless it turns the corner in developing and supporting its young talent.. Boy, I hope I'm wrong!

 

[Swighey]

Surely, the solution to changing this must lie in training, with the greatest burden falling on the pool instruction profession

Jimmy White was on Eurosport the other day as part of their team for the UK Snooker Championship. He recalled that back in his day, the way they prepared for the big championships was to go to certain snooker halls and play against the top amateur players (who would have been almost as good as most pros, and better than some, but had "regular" jobs as a source of income) - but nowadays all the up and coming players play at academies - and that's one of the reasons why the overall standard and depth in the pro ranks is so much better now than it used to be.

 

[sjm]

Jimmy White was on Eurosport the other day as part of their team for the UK Snooker Championship. He recalled that back in his day, the way they prepared for the big championships was to go to certain snooker halls and play against the top amateur players (who would have been almost as good as most pros, and better than some, but had "regular" jobs as a source of income) - but nowadays all the up and coming players play at academies - and that's one of the reasons why the overall standard and depth in the pro ranks is so much better now than it used to be.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[highball9]

I don't think it is all doom and gloom for Team USA. The last two years Europe was much stronger on paper than the US and still lost. And Day 2 showed many hill hill matches that could have gone both ways. Same with the lag, it usually was so tight, it was hard to distingush on TV who actually won. So the 5:0 does not reflect that it could easily have been a much different score.
On another hand there a structural differences in the pool world in Europe to the USA that will be hard to overcome. The US as always been very individualistic focused on big singles tournaments with hardly any team play. Playing in a league in the US is mostly for fun and giggles. The Club and league system in Europe (I speak for Germany, but assume most of the other countries are the same) rely on teams competing against each other. It is a different kind of preassure if loosing means letting your team mates down compared to just loosing on your own (even if your own money is involved). This can be compensate if your team has a run, like in the last 2 years for the US, but can be very hard on morale when your team starts loosing. This in my view is what holds SVB back, he has such high expectations in himself with regards to winning "for the team" that it drags him down a lot if things don't go as planned.

 

[Oze147]

Many good points made here, but I can tell you, that the European pool scene isn`t that superior as it might seem.
I will go further and say that the US has better requirements to develop strong players than Europe and the simple reason is that the approach to sports in the US is very different than in Europe.

Sports in Europe are organized in clubs, teams etc. which leads to a hard competiton for young talents. A kid in my town can choose between a sh*tload of football (soccer) teams, a record champion hockey team, a ski club which is home to two Olympic gold medalists, 2 volleyball clubs, 3 basketball teams, handball, american football, swimming...not to mention all other activities like dancing, horse riding and so on and so on.
Which leaves me with 4 nice kids, with the high possibility to poke each others eyes out while practicing draw shots.
Not to mention that it is a lot of stress for the parents to bring and take their kids to trainings, tournaments, matches etc. Imagine a family with three kids, all of them active in different sports, at different times and in different places.

In the US many sports are organized in cooperation with schools. High school teams, College teams and even the small ones play for their schools and not a club.
Sports and education in the same institution, Teachers and students, Coaches and teams... and now comes the big if:
IF the US pool community can make their way into schools they will overwhelm the European club and league system in the same way they do it in all big US sports.
As long as US pool gets stuck in this pool hall, gambling, romantic outlaw haze the small European pool scene still has enough capacities to raise players, which are one or two levels above their US counterparts.

 

[garczar]

Very curious as to what Team USA’s looks like in future Mosconi Cups? Team Europe could put out this same team for the next five years and dominate any American team! Their oldest member is Shaw and he still plays super strong! Team USA’s best player is SVB, but not in the Mosconi Cup. I have to give that edge to Skyler. So in the future who plays on Team USA that could even challenge Team Europe?

That your girlfriend or just wishing?

 

[garczar]

Very curious as to what Team USA’s looks like in future Mosconi Cups? Team Europe could put out this same team for the next five years and dominate any American team! Their oldest member is Shaw and he still plays super strong! Team USA’s best player is SVB, but not in the Mosconi Cup. I have to give that edge to Skyler. So in the future who plays on Team USA that could even challenge Team Europe?

There are little if any really good players coming up in US pool. Dan Olsen is good but plays too much on a bar-box. Chris R. is about only good young American on the 9ft. US pool is so bad right now i don't see us competing on the world stage much in coming years.

 

[Brozif]

That your girlfriend or just wishing?

Don't I wish!! That was former female professional Yu Ram Cha. She once beat SVB in a 10-Ball tournament. She had a ton of potential!! She broke my heart and got married, then had a child and she never came back to the tour.

 

[jay helfert]

Many good points made here, but I can tell you, that the European pool scene isn`t that superior as it might seem.
I will go further and say that the US has better requirements to develop strong players than Europe and the simple reason is that the approach to sports in the US is very different than in Europe.

Sports in Europe are organized in clubs, teams etc. which leads to a hard competiton for young talents. A kid in my town can choose between a sh*tload of football (soccer) teams, a record champion hockey team, a ski club which is home to two Olympic gold medalists, 2 volleyball clubs, 3 basketball teams, handball, american football, swimming...not to mention all other activities like dancing, horse riding and so on and so on.
Which leaves me with 4 nice kids, with the high possibility to poke each others eyes out while practicing draw shots.
Not to mention that it is a lot of stress for the parents to bring and take their kids to trainings, tournaments, matches etc. Imagine a family with three kids, all of them active in different sports, at different times and in different places.

In the US many sports are organized in cooperation with schools. High school teams, College teams and even the small ones play for their schools and not a club.
Sports and education in the same institution, Teachers and students, Coaches and teams... and now comes the big if:
IF the US pool community can make their way into schools they will overwhelm the European club and league system in the same way they do it in all big US sports.
As long as US pool gets stuck in this pool hall, gambling, romantic outlaw haze the small European pool scene still has enough capacities to raise players, which are one or two levels above their US counterparts.

I've been saying the same thing for years, many years! If only the BCA had spent their energy on this and not some futile attempts to get Pool into the Olympics. What they didn't realize and may still not realize, is that making Pool a high school sport would be far better for their bottom line. It's never to late though!

 

[jay helfert]

Don't I wish!! That was former female professional Yu Ram Cha. She once beat SVB in a 10-Ball tournament. She had a ton of potential!! She broke my heart and got married, then had a child and she never came back to the tour.

I refereed that math and Yu Ram was brilliant (and yes, BEAUTIFUL!). She had the lead and Shane stormed back to go ahead late in the match. It looked like she was done, but she dug in her heels and won the last two games to snatch the victory. She played damn good all the way through the match!

 

[Brozif]

My fear is that we just don't have the young talent developing to continue to compete with Europe. We have a solid foundation to build on with Sky, Billy, Tyler and Chris. They'll be around for a while, but how will their game continue to improve to the level of being able to compete with the Europeans? Jay Helfert said it best, they need to compete more internationally because those players are superior to the level of competition that you'll find while playing only in the US. In a tournament with an international field, I have a strong belief that SVB might be the only American player that could possibly win, or at least finish in the top 10. I can't really see an American other than SVB having a chance to win the US Open or the World 9-Ball Championship. Where as I could name you at least 5 Asians, 5 Europeans, and 5 Phillipino's, that could snap one of them off. (and yes, I know that Phillipino's are Asian's too!)

 

[pool players stats]

If you want to play pool for living in Europe, you need to be damn good. In the US you can be a solid player and go hustle amateurs or play small tournaments with a pretty solid prize.
Amateur tournaments in the US have bigger prizes for winning than Eurotour. In most countries, billiards players are a small community, I bet that Eklent personally knows 90% of all pool players in Albania, there’s no space to hustle, everybody knows everyone. You need to be the best to get sponsors like predator, mezz, meucci etc, and governments usually sponsor only European medalists.
That’s why Europeans are better, USA players do not need to be that much good to make money from pool, it's easier to play small events without big sharks, or gamble with amateurs then to go around the world playing against the best of the best.
I bet that 70-80% of pro pool players from the US couldn't make a living playing pool in Europe

 

[garczar]

If you want to play pool for living in Europe, you need to be damn good. In the US you can be a solid player and go hustle amateurs or play small tournaments with a pretty solid prize.
Amateur tournaments in the US have bigger prizes for winning than Eurotour. In most countries, billiards players are a small community, I bet that Eklent personally knows 90% of all pool players in Albania, there’s no space to hustle, everybody knows everyone. You need to be the best to get sponsors like predator, mezz, meucci etc, and governments usually sponsor only European medalists.
That’s why Europeans are better, USA players do not need to be that much good to make money from pool, it's easier to play small events without big sharks, or gamble with amateurs then to go around the world playing against the best of the best.
I bet that 70-80% of pro pool players from the US couldn't make a living playing pool in Europe

They also have strong billiard associations in each country as well as a well funded(for pool anyway) pro tour. The US has NOTHING that remotely compares to what Europe has been doing the last 20yrs. The US used to be the gold standard when it came to pool but now we're more like the re-cycled metal standard.

 

[jalapus logan]

Jimmy White was on Eurosport the other day as part of their team for the UK Snooker Championship. He recalled that back in his day, the way they prepared for the big championships was to go to certain snooker halls and play against the top amateur players (who would have been almost as good as most pros, and better than some, but had "regular" jobs as a source of income) - but nowadays all the up and coming players play at academies - and that's one of the reasons why the overall standard and depth in the pro ranks is so much better now than it used to be.

Good observation here. Fan of pool, though I am, I can not see the USA pool scene producing the quality players in the future you are describing as coming out of the Euro's snooker academies. Academies/colleges/trade schools only exist to prepare students for the market, and for US pool, there is not much if any market. The pro pool market in the USA is moribund at best and by my observation, has been for many years. As I said, I'm a pool fan and it does pain me to say it, but this is the truth as I see it. I wish it were different, maybe one day it will be, but the trend is not our friend it appears.