Elbow drop

[FranCrimi]

If I am then it’s a stroke that works. This is standard snooker follow through. Head still, keep down until ball stop moving...becomes instinct.

I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm just saying that the finish you describe is not consistent with a stroke with no elbow movement like you wrote. So which of the two do you do? Drop your elbow or manipulate your grip hand?

 

[Bob Jewett]

I'm not saying it doesn't work. I'm just saying that the finish you describe is not consistent with a stroke with no elbow movement like you wrote. So which of the two do you do? Drop your elbow or manipulate your grip hand?

A third possibility is neither one. Maybe he doesn't do what he thinks he is doing. Maybe he has never seen a candid video of himself playing in a match.

 

[skipbales]

I never wrote that I shoot all shots that way. It's a weapon in my arsenal that I can pull out when I need it. Sometimes I can play an entire match without needing to shoot an elbow drop shot, other than break shots. Other times I may have to use it a few times in the same game. It doesn't have to be all or nothing with this stroke if you have the confidence to use it occasionally. It does take a certain amount of confidence, though, to switch strokes for a particular shot in the middle of a competition. It takes training.

I think this is where I have landed. There are times when a pure fixed elbow position gives me accuracy. Usually these are shots with a short stroke and I need to focus on remaining perfectly still. Oddly one of those is the break. To hit hard and still be as accurate as I need a pendulum is a help. Most of the rest of the time focusing on ANYTHING is a distraction for me. I believe that is a personal thing, not a universal thing. I can't focus on doing anything the same each time or I engage my conscious mind too much. I tried doing the same exact number of practice strokes each time and that was all I could think of. My total focus was on counting. I tried for a long time but had to abandon it. I forgot to aim, didn't focus on speed, etc. My job became counting the practice strokes. I doubt one person in 50 would react this way. I "try too hard" sometimes. Now I take as many as I take and could not begin to tell you how many that is or if it varies. Once I am down on the shot I need a single "swing thought" just like I do in golf. My thought now is stroke straight through the ball and watch the object ball go in. That may actually be two thoughts but my image is a single image. The flow is through the stick to the table then on to the pocket, or rail on a back cut. The only thing I have to remember now is to get up off the table so the balls don't hit me.

 

[FranCrimi]

I think this is where I have landed. There are times when a pure fixed elbow position gives me accuracy. Usually these are shots with a short stroke and I need to focus on remaining perfectly still. Oddly one of those is the break. To hit hard and still be as accurate as I need a pendulum is a help. Most of the rest of the time focusing on ANYTHING is a distraction for me. I believe that is a personal thing, not a universal thing. I can't focus on doing anything the same each time or I engage my conscious mind too much. I tried doing the same exact number of practice strokes each time and that was all I could think of. My total focus was on counting. I tried for a long time but had to abandon it. I forgot to aim, didn't focus on speed, etc. My job became counting the practice strokes. I doubt one person in 50 would react this way. I "try too hard" sometimes. Now I take as many as I take and could not begin to tell you how many that is or if it varies. Once I am down on the shot I need a single "swing thought" just like I do in golf. My thought now is stroke straight through the ball and watch the object ball go in. That may actually be two thoughts but my image is a single image. The flow is through the stick to the table then on to the pocket, or rail on a back cut. The only thing I have to remember now is to get up off the table so the balls don't hit me.

That's why it takes so much trust to really execute a good elbow drop shot. It feels like your arm can go all over the place. But the truth is that when executed correctly, it's actually more accurate than the fixed elbow stroke. I totally understand that it doesn't feel that way, which is why it stops a lot of players and even teachers from using it. Also, you have to trust the stroke completely or you will change the natural flow of it in mid-stroke by trying to control it.

 

[skipbales]

If your tip is finishing an inch or so above the cloth on every shot, then you are either dropping your elbow or manipulating your back hand (such as rolling it) as the cue moves through or maybe a little of both.

This is also something I have observed. Quite often the pros finish with the tip as high or even higher than the stroke and it often is vibrating. I have watched many pros who consistently seem to swoop upward. In particular if you watch the "old style" pros like Mosconi. They do all kinds of stuff, like swing the cue up and to the left. I am not saying those are good habits, I am only saying it is hard for me to determine what really is most important. I see instruction videos that say the cue "cannot end up pointing up". Yet I see hundreds of examples where it does. Please understand, I am not saying good or bad. I am only saying what I observe. I am trying to make sense of it all, not present a point of view or start an argument. For draw shots I love the feel of ending on the cloth. For extreme top with a level stroke I am going to end in the air about the same distance from the cloth as at impact. To end up on the cloth with this type of stroke and a level cue I would have to extend a foot or more through the cue ball. If it is force follow the tip of the cue will be vibrating. I think this is especially true with the modern carbon fiber low deflection cues. They are designed to flex to keep the cue ball from deflecting so much.

To me it seems important that the overall direction of the stroke should normally be downward. But straight seems to be good for center ball and even a SLIGHTLY upward stroke can be acceptable on follow. I am thinking here of shooting off the rail or over a ball and trying to keep level. It is almost a feeling of ticking the cue ball to start it rolling on soft shots. Essentially it seems it can follow the curve of the cue ball and work. Also note I am thinking very slight angles here, not extremes of any sort.

 

[skipbales]

That's why it takes so much trust to really execute a good elbow drop shot. It feels like your arm can go all over the place. But the truth is that when executed correctly, it's actually more accurate than the fixed elbow stroke. I totally understand that it doesn't feel that way, which is why it stops a lot of players and even teachers from using it. Also, you have to trust the stroke completely or you will change the natural flow of it in mid-stroke by trying to control it.

For long shots where speed is needed I think the elbow drop is good for me. I accelerate slowly over a long stroke and that seems to work.

One thing I do which I don't like is use my upper arm to PUSH on a very soft shot short shot where I am trying to control the speed. I don't know why I do it but it almost never works. I fell my entire arm involved in a short soft shot like I am trying to gently push the ball. I almost always fail when this happens. It may well be some result of tension. I think my arm is "locked" or "frozen" and I am pushing it. These shots work best for me with minimum movement and a very relaxed hand.