Men vs Women at pool
- Thread starter mikepage
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Great stuff as usual, Mike, including lots of stuff about factors other than physical differences. But for those without the time/inclination to watch the whole thing, here's the bottom line:
The main difference, as we've speculated all along, is the far greater number of men playing pool (which is illustrated some interesting ways in the video).
Regarding other differences, I was particularly interested in the idea that men are thought to be better at focusing on one thing while women are thought to be better multitaskers. This sounds pertinent to me (but not nearly as big a factor as the raw numbers of players).
pj
chgo
The main difference, as we've speculated all along, is the far greater number of men playing pool (which is illustrated some interesting ways in the video).
Regarding other differences, I was particularly interested in the idea that men are thought to be better at focusing on one thing while women are thought to be better multitaskers. This sounds pertinent to me (but not nearly as big a factor as the raw numbers of players).
pj
chgo
Thx for the video.
Only difference to me is women that are born with a very large chest.
I saw this years ago in match play when Varner and I played in the Midwest collegiate 14.1 finals, the women played along side of us in their own event.
The Extra large build of this woman's upper body often, pinned the cue to the play surface, and this was definitely a detriment, she used the rake allot.
No different that a pro golfer trying to make it on tour, if they are nearing seven feet in height that's a concern, why?
Too much can go wrong between the top & bottom of their swing.
Other than that I see no difference.
I saw the woman from China. Drill a top level pro in the TV arena at Mandalay Bay's 1st US Open in Vegas. He tho was not a SVB or Shaw.
He's from AZ, name slips me stocky. He always gives Frost all he can handle at one hole and beating em, but not the rotation games.
Only difference to me is women that are born with a very large chest.
I saw this years ago in match play when Varner and I played in the Midwest collegiate 14.1 finals, the women played along side of us in their own event.
The Extra large build of this woman's upper body often, pinned the cue to the play surface, and this was definitely a detriment, she used the rake allot.
No different that a pro golfer trying to make it on tour, if they are nearing seven feet in height that's a concern, why?
Too much can go wrong between the top & bottom of their swing.
Other than that I see no difference.
I saw the woman from China. Drill a top level pro in the TV arena at Mandalay Bay's 1st US Open in Vegas. He tho was not a SVB or Shaw.
He's from AZ, name slips me stocky. He always gives Frost all he can handle at one hole and beating em, but not the rotation games.
Mike,
It seems the main point is there is no reason to think there are biological differences between men and women's capabilities to play. The reason they aren't seen in the top 30 is due to the differences in the total numbers of women competing versus the size of the group of men.
This is very important to know and I appreciate you breaking this down. Yet we still have to address the question of why there are such differences is the number of competitors. If we don't address that it sounds a lot like the player who says "If I played as much as you I'd be as good", a statement which may be true but may not be relevant.
So the question becomes why do so many more men compete? Obviously there is a societal impact. No disputing it. But do we have data to suggest it is all socially constructed? Or is it possible that biological differences play a role in the number of men who compete?
Thank you for sharing!
Seems
It seems the main point is there is no reason to think there are biological differences between men and women's capabilities to play. The reason they aren't seen in the top 30 is due to the differences in the total numbers of women competing versus the size of the group of men.
This is very important to know and I appreciate you breaking this down. Yet we still have to address the question of why there are such differences is the number of competitors. If we don't address that it sounds a lot like the player who says "If I played as much as you I'd be as good", a statement which may be true but may not be relevant.
So the question becomes why do so many more men compete? Obviously there is a societal impact. No disputing it. But do we have data to suggest it is all socially constructed? Or is it possible that biological differences play a role in the number of men who compete?
Thank you for sharing!
Seems
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Welcome to the fotum Mr. Wright.
Golf Gaffe: CBS Pulls Commentator Off Air Over Lesbian Comments
WILMINGTON, Del. (AP) _ CBS golf commentator Ben Wright may have hooked his career into the woods by saying lesbians are turning the women's pro tour into a ``butch game'' and their breasts interfere with their swing. The network summoned Wright to New York and pulled him from Friday's TV...
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Sent from the future.
If I remember correctly, the numbers disparity between men and women in pool closely mirror other sports (between 60/40 to 65/35) based on what I saw when the BCA was making the sport participation survey results widely available. I think where we start to see a drop off is in the next level of participation which is serious competition above and beyond APA leagues where more women are there for the social aspect.
We've often seen complaints and concern that a pool hall is a less than welcoming environment for women to practice in on their own. They have a few additional challenges that males do not. I can play go practice for a few hours undisturbed (outside of the odd person asking for a game). This is often not the case with women unless they are able to find a particularly quiet time to practice.
Certainly there are social barriers to women in competition. My question is whether it is all social or if there are biological contributions to this disparity, and whether we have data that can help answer that.
Are being negative?Welcome to the fotum Mr. Wright.
Golf Gaffe: CBS Pulls Commentator Off Air Over Lesbian Comments
WILMINGTON, Del. (AP) _ CBS golf commentator Ben Wright may have hooked his career into the woods by saying lesbians are turning the women's pro tour into a ``butch game'' and their breasts interfere with their swing. The network summoned Wright to New York and pulled him from Friday's TV...
Sent from the future.
I probably misread your post, but based on participation stats I would say the answer would be found in any research into sport participation since it closely mirrors other activities. I don’t think there is a biological reason why fewer women play pool specifically.
Explain clever............
Pool is one of those sports that the physicality isn't an issue. Same with bowling. It is based on equipment and skill. As far as why more women don't compete, that is the million dollar question.
I think there is a big physical difference involved in bowling. Women generally dont have equal upper body and arm strength that men do so they cant get as many REV's on the ball. They could use a lighter ball but that puts them at a disadvantage too.
Maybe I should have rephrased that a little. The playing surfaces are the same. A pool table and a bowling lane are not changed from a mens pro event to a womens pro event like golf courses are.
mitch ellerman, very talented player. the chinese girl is siming chen.
I'll rephrase my point. Here's what I was driving at:
Mike is a data guy. He uses data to disprove the hypothesis that men who compete at pool are at a biological advantage to women who compete at pool. This is a great video to prove that point and I hope it puts that debate to bed. His main point is that in question of "Why are the top 30 players in the world men" is participation, not ability.
My point is that if we ask "Can biological differences between men and women explain in part why the top 30 players are men" we can't use this video as a way of saying no to that. We can say no to the idea that individual men are at any advantage. But we haven't established whether biology is in part what drives larger numbers of men to compete. This is a widely debated topic and one that is constantly shifting as our society evolves.
So I feel Mike's video is necessary and important, but by presenting the findings that there are no individual biological difference some might mistake that to mean that there are no biological differences at all that could account for the bottom line results. I don't think Mike was making that point, I was just thinking it through for myself and felt clarification was important here.
Mike is a data guy. He uses data to disprove the hypothesis that men who compete at pool are at a biological advantage to women who compete at pool. This is a great video to prove that point and I hope it puts that debate to bed. His main point is that in question of "Why are the top 30 players in the world men" is participation, not ability.
My point is that if we ask "Can biological differences between men and women explain in part why the top 30 players are men" we can't use this video as a way of saying no to that. We can say no to the idea that individual men are at any advantage. But we haven't established whether biology is in part what drives larger numbers of men to compete. This is a widely debated topic and one that is constantly shifting as our society evolves.
So I feel Mike's video is necessary and important, but by presenting the findings that there are no individual biological difference some might mistake that to mean that there are no biological differences at all that could account for the bottom line results. I don't think Mike was making that point, I was just thinking it through for myself and felt clarification was important here.
Geosnookery
Well-known member
Unlike Anerican pool there is definitely a physical aspect to Snooker . At age 14 when I first started, I didn’t have the hand or wrist strength to make the needed spin on the ball and definitely not to use multiple rails in a smooth delivery. I also find that in those 10% ( or whatever) of awkward shot positions that I tap into muscles. In contrast, my wife can’t make certain hand bridges, holding her weight up, etc. even though her hands are more flexible than mine.
There is no female in the top ranking 132 players, Reanne Evans, the best female billiard player in the world has been given invitations into top tournaments and I don’t think she has ever won a match. The Chinese women given wildcard spots have all lost first round.
Re leagues, it’s different in Canada than in the USA. Our leagues are mixed gender and of the Three leagues I play in it’s about 60% female. My wife and her friends enjoy playing and she had never mentioned any gender issues.
How much does strength matter in Snooker? Perhaps ‘not much’ but at the elite level the 1% of ‘something’ is the difference between 1st place and 50th place in many sports.
There is no female in the top ranking 132 players, Reanne Evans, the best female billiard player in the world has been given invitations into top tournaments and I don’t think she has ever won a match. The Chinese women given wildcard spots have all lost first round.
Re leagues, it’s different in Canada than in the USA. Our leagues are mixed gender and of the Three leagues I play in it’s about 60% female. My wife and her friends enjoy playing and she had never mentioned any gender issues.
How much does strength matter in Snooker? Perhaps ‘not much’ but at the elite level the 1% of ‘something’ is the difference between 1st place and 50th place in many sports.