Is This A Difficult Shot For Most?

Snooker tables have the "top" cushion by the black ball. It's tradition rather than logic. But I think pool tables have been as you say for a long time.
hmm... I had to look it up because I honestly couldn't recall. Not that it's solid info but here's the first reference I found, and it conveniently lines up with what I was thinking...lol
snooker.png

Assuming you're right about the cushion near the black considered the "top" rail. It withstands scrutiny because there's no such thing as a foot spot or 'head' string in snooker that would confuse the designation.
 
hmm... I had to look it up because I honestly couldn't recall. Not that it's solid info but here's the first reference I found, and it conveniently lines up with what I was thinking...lol
View attachment 584100
Assuming you're right about the cushion near the black considered the "top" rail. It withstands scrutiny because there's no such thing as a foot spot or 'head' string in snooker that would confuse the designation.
Snooker originated as an outdoor game. When the idea of moving it indoor was evolved the idea of two larger tables was usually abandoned, and a billiard table and a dining table were combined. Planks were set on top of the table when dining. The dining area was conveniently located next to the kitchen. When the balls were broken the rule was to break from the kitchen end to avoid break balls flying into the kitchen. When used for dining the head of the family was served first. He was located at the head end of the table, closest to the kitchen. The anatomy metaphor was extend to name the opposite end the foot. For some reason when renamed as top and bottom cushions the connotation was reversed. It may have had something to do with the layout when introduced into gentleman’s clubs.
 
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Snooker originated as an outdoor game. When the idea of moving it indoor was evolved the idea of two larger tables was usually abandoned, and a billiard table and a dining table were combined. Planks were set on top of the table when dining. The dining area was conveniently located next to the kitchen. When the balls were broken the rule was to break from the kitchen end to avoid break balls flying into the kitchen. When used for dining the head of the family was served first. He was located at the head end of the table, closest to the kitchen. The anatomy metaphor was extend to name the opposite end the foot. For some reason when renamed as top and bottom cushions the connotation was reversed. It may have had something to do with the layout when introduced into gentleman’s clubs.
I'd love to see some documentation on this.... Not calling you a lair, but it screams mythos ...that and I can't find anything that jives with your post....lol
 
I'd love to see some documentation on this.... Not calling you a lair, but it screams mythos ...that and I can't find anything that jives with your post....lol
One problem with billiard history is that some of it is made up. Like Cleopatra playing billiards in Shakespeare.

I can only assume that Mac was making a joke about the kitchen. When billiard tables were evolving (pre 1800s) the rich people who had them did not have the kind of kitchens we have now, and the kitchen would not have been close to the billiard room. Kitchens were often in separate buildings.
 
Dr Cue has not been back to tell everyone he only wants comments on the way he diagrammed and played it. Are you OK Dr?

As always, I am looking forward to any and all comments.

And just because I might not post in a thread doesnt mean I am not reading other's posts and trying them.

r/DCP
 
As always, I am looking forward to any and all comments.

And just because I might not post in a thread doesnt mean I am not reading other's posts and trying them.

r/DCP
Glad you're ok. So, a lot of options have been put forth, which do you think is best?
 
One problem with billiard history is that some of it is made up. Like Cleopatra playing billiards in Shakespeare.
Ya no doubt...

The consistent story thus far is that snooker was born by the British military. By combining two different games, indoors...
 
Ya no doubt...

The consistent story thus far is that snooker was born by the British military. By combining two different games, indoors...
Wasn't pool (or pocket billiards generally?) first an indoor version of tabletop croquet?

pj
chgo
 
I think we're experiencing a lost in personal translation moment.

"Above" the side pocket = "up" table = end that contains the head string...

I never understood why people would consider the section the table containing the foot spot, as the "top".

Below side pocket = near foot spot
Above side pocket = near head string
K. I wasn't considering the table orientation, just the layout.
 
I'd love to see some documentation on this.... Not calling you a lair, but it screams mythos ...that and I can't find anything that jives with your post....lol
I’m just parroting what I’ve read. As to researching I quickly found this. http://www.billiardsforum.com/billiard-terms-definition/kitchen Proof of anything can be questioned. I just thought a little color can’t hurt. I’d rather the game be noted for this than the seedy part that is provable. Men’s clubs were targeted by prostitutes in a era when 30% of the population never married. Every family had spinster aunts and bachelor uncles. In England they were initially clubs for the upper class. America‘s version of clubs weren’t a class act and the dirty 30’s didn’t help. Desperate men looked to gamble and the pool halls were hangouts for single men, prime candidates for the hookers. I think I would rather be associated with the lore rather than the dirty underbelly.

Matchroom are trying to raise the standing of the sport, as a class act, a platform for genius players to make a living. A snooker pro winning a single rating tournament makes more from that tournament than the top pool money leader makes in a season. Snooker didn’t have to overcome the bad image and is revered as a classy occupation. What benefit is derived from proving this lore wrong? Doesn’t that pursuit only benefit those who want to paint the sport with negative colors, for whatever reason.
 
... making a joke about the kitchen. ...
After a little research I discovered that the kitchen story appeared in print in a book in 1993. The story is attributed to a single person, Jim Vitalo of Willow Springs, Illinois. If that is the same James Vitalo who lives there now, he was 36 at the time of publication.

I still think it was a joke.
 
7faff.png (1667×903) (chalkysticks.com)

You have to pocket the 6B and then draw back for position on the 7B. The measles CB is where I start and the plain white CB is where I would like to end up.

If you hit it too hard you will have a thin cut on the 7B. And if you hit it too soft you would more than likely run into the 9B when pocketing the 7B. Unless you hit it just a hair too soft have just a slight angle where you can pocket the 7B with low left and draw off the rail for the 8B.

I struggle with this shot. Seems like I am always either too hard or too easy and hose myself.

r/DCP
You can do it with your regular stroke, but to master the near-rail cross-table play, it helps to slightly elevate the cue through the bridge and think of moving the whole arm on the forward stroke "in" rather than the lower arm only. Mastering that sort of brooming or raking stroke with an o.b. on the rail takes a few minutes and will give you excellent position with the c.b. at will. Start at a shallower angle on the c.b. while you're learning this stroke. In clinics, I call aloud before the stroke whether the c.b. will die on the rail, pass it or come short of the rail.
 
How does that help?

pj
chgo
A whole arm stroke needs a slightly more inclined cue plane. The forward dynamic of the stroke starts with a rotation at the shoulder joint before the rotation from the elbow joint. Looking at the arm rotated down slightly you see that the cue hand comes down. Without a higher starting point at the back of the stroke the dropped hand ends up below the bridge. The higher backswing plane also raises the body slightly. The shoulder rotation allows the cueing hand to clear under the body on the forward stroke and not endlong up digging into the chest. The whole arm judges the speed. It’s like an underhand tossing motion rather than a timed pendulum release. A toss motion is longer and more easily sensed. I totally agree that the distance of travel dynamic seems to be slower and easier to calculate.
 
A whole arm stroke needs a slightly more inclined cue plane. The forward dynamic of the stroke starts with a rotation at the shoulder joint before the rotation from the elbow joint. Looking at the arm rotated down slightly you see that the cue hand comes down. Without a higher starting point at the back of the stroke the dropped hand ends up below the bridge. The higher backswing plane also raises the body slightly. The shoulder rotation allows the cueing hand to clear under the body on the forward stroke and not endlong up digging into the chest. The whole arm judges the speed. It’s like an underhand tossing motion rather than a timed pendulum release. A toss motion is longer and more easily sensed. I totally agree that the distance of travel dynamic seems to be slower and easier to calculate.
So the idea is that a whole arm motion makes speed calibration easier? Then why not do it on all shots?

pj
chgo
 
So the idea is that a whole arm motion makes speed calibration easier? Then why not do it on all shots?

pj
chgo
Ronnie O’Sullivan does it on many, especially stun run through and follow shots. He doesn’t on most stun or stop shots. I see him using it on even slower short shots sometimes. When the whole arm is moving you seem to be able to control slow movement easier. The alternatives seem to result in quit strokes or handsy actions. Not saying there aren’t tons of ways to shoot any shot. But as BilliardsAbout experienced the distance control seems to be more easily calibrated over the longer style of action. The wrist still needs to flex forward but when the drive comes from the arm rather than the hand the grip stays more passive. I know there are those on the forum who believe that the cushioning of the hand stops mass force from imparting momentum. Tell that to fighters. Despite a padded glove the impact of a fast jab doesn’t compare to the power of a punch when more mass is put behind a likely slower hit. The momentum can lift the fighter right off his feet. A padded wrecking ball doesn’t get its main momentum from speed alone. The whole arm stroke has the mass of the upper arm as part of the contributing mass. IMHO
 
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Ronnie O’Sullivan does it on many, especially stun run through and follow shots. He doesn’t on most stun or stop shots. I see him using it on even slower short shots sometimes. When the whole arm is moving you seem to be able to control slow movement easier. The alternatives seem to result in quit strokes or handsy actions. Not saying there aren’t tons of ways to shoot any shot. But as BilliardsAbout experienced the distance control seems to be more easily calibrated over the longer style of action. The wrist still needs to flex forward but when the drive comes from the arm rather than the hand the grip stays more passive. I know there are those on the forum who believe that the cushioning of the hand stops mass force from imparting momentum. Tell that to fighters. Despite a padded glove the impact of a fast jab doesn’t compare to the power of a punch when more mass is put behind a likely slower hit. The momentum can lift the fighter right off his feet. A padded wrecking ball doesn’t get its main momentum from speed alone. The whole arm stroke has the mass of the upper arm as part of the contributing mass. IMHO
But why for this shot in particular?

pj
chgo
 
But why for this shot in particular?

pj
chgo
There is a concept in skill development that the faster a person has to execute a skill, the higher the error level. It’s especially crucial in team sports but it shouldn’t be ignored here. When the whole arm is used to deliver the momentum the less the hand feels like it has to get involved in the production of velocity. The extra mass helps create the same momentum with less velocity. There is a sense of more control when the hand takes a back seat to the arm delivering the cue. The difference is subtle because the elbow still has to hinge in a synchronous manner. Coordination learned through a pendulum stroke definitely helps. For me the chief difference is that there is more arm swing rather than an appendage simply hanging.

Once you expand your experience to include different ways to deliver the cue, if you trust your subconscious to pick how to achieve a desired effect, it will pick what it tells itself will do the job most efficiently. When we first try something new if we succeed we tend to keep doing it that way. That said the minute performance suffers our stress level goes up. The tendency is to revert to the familiar, a comfort zone of sorts, only looking to lower the stress. While pushing the envelope, of our current skill set, is how we learn, the envelope has an elastic quality, wanting to retreat to the old. Interestingly enough though if we stretch it far enough it can never return to its original bounds.

Learning to follow through on shots is more a byproduct of what the body has learned to do. It’s a natural result of what the body has learned about what comes before impact, an effect rather than a cause. It’s a result of how the body senses the shot.
 
But why for this shot in particular?

pj
chgo
There is a concept in skill development that the faster a person has to execute a skill, the higher the error level. It’s especially crucial in team sports but it shouldn’t be ignored here. When the whole arm is used to deliver the momentum the less the hand feels like it has to get involved in the production of velocity. The extra mass helps create the same momentum with less velocity. There is a sense of more control when the hand takes a back seat to the arm delivering the cue. The difference is subtle because the elbow still has to hinge in a synchronous manner. Coordination learned through a pendulum stroke definitely helps. For me the chief difference is that there is more arm swing rather than an appendage simply hanging.

Once you expand your experience to include different ways to deliver the cue, if you trust your subconscious to pick how to achieve a desired effect, it will pick what it tells itself will do the job most efficiently. When we first try something new if we succeed we tend to keep doing it that way. That said the minute performance suffers our stress level goes up. The tendency is to revert to the familiar, a comfort zone of sorts, only looking to lower the stress. While pushing the envelope, of our current skill set, is how we learn, the envelope has an elastic quality, wanting to retreat to the old. Interestingly enough though if we stretch it far enough it can never return to its original bounds.

Learning to follow through on shots is more a byproduct of what the body has learned to do. It’s a natural result of what the body has learned about what comes before impact, an effect rather than a cause. It’s a result of how the body senses the shot.
Never mind.

pj
chgo
 
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