If pushing is allowed, you could get usable effects on any part of a frozen line. Including loss of turn I suppose.
learning spin
- Thread starter evergruven
- Start date
If it was allowed, then it wouldn’t be a foul and there would be no loss of turn. Duh.
But it isn’t allowed, and doing it intentionally could be unsportsmanlike and cost loss of game or match.
pj
chgo
If all the balls are frozen then the only problem might be secondary contact. I don't know what the rule is. For instance in one hole you get left frozen on the stack a lot. What's the ruling if you shoot right into the stack?
You said “pushing”. Pushing (not a normal stroke) is a foul.
A double hit is likely with a normal stroke. A push is a definite foul.
When the CB is frozen to just one other ball it can be hit normally with no push or double hit.
pj
chgo
P.S. A push is when you place your tip against the CB and push (not “hit”) it.
Ok I call the mutiple ball shot pushing because that's the only way to shoot it. I recall you can get the second or the middle ball in the back row of a full rack to go but I also vaguely remember being told it wasn't a legal hit. Then too there was no clear cut rule at that room on shooting frozen shots. One continuous stroke is the only condition even ventured. That might have been whether or not the balls were frozen too.
Its a foul
Because of a double hit and push
Also it would be odd to have every ball frozen to each other and the cue ball
It can easily happen on a fresh rack in straight pool as well as on partially open racks in both straight pool and one hole.
If a ball is frozen to the cueball and you shoot through legally, you still have contiguous contact between the stick and the two balls. I don't see why this would be any different than shooting through two or more frozen balls.
The double hit only happens if two balls are separated - foul I imagine or, like the trick shot, if balls get deflected out the way but the stroke continues, striking the next ball.
Rules of Play - WPA Pool
6. Fouls
6.8 Push Shot
It is a foul to prolong tip-to-cue-ball contact beyond that seen in normal shots.
That doesn't happen with only one OB frozen to the CB.
pj
chgo
Thanks patrick
Seems to allow for legally disturbing frozen clusters by shooting at a cut angle. Still makes a useful intentional, regardless.
If the cb is frozen to the ob there is no way to double hit it with a normal stroke, unless there is a stack of balls in front of the ob that interferes with cb and allows it to gets hit again by the tip. A lot of players don't realize this, so house rules might state that you have to elevate the cue or shoot away from the cb-ob centerline in order to make it a legal shot.
That's a looser version of the old Texas Express rule. Still presuming the cue ball is also frozen, would you be allowed to shoot "directly" into a fractional portion of a frozen line/cluster and if so, what portion?
I've never seen a rule go into that much detail, but I think it works like this....
Let's say your cue stick weighs 20oz. If the cb is frozen to a line of 3 object balls (each 6oz), and all frozen in a straight line, the total mass of frozen balls, including cb, would be 24oz (4 x 6oz). If you shoot straight along the centerline of the line of balls, the 3 ob's (18oz) would be sent away immediately by the 20oz cue at about the same speed the cue is traveling at upon impact (a little faster). But the cb would not move as quickly and would be pushed/shoved or double hit by the cue tip.
If the cb were frozen to only 1 or 2 ob's in a straight line, and you stroked straight along the centerline of balls, all the balls (cb and ob's) would take off immediately, a little faster than the speed of the stroke upon impact, and the tip would not push or double hit the cb.
If there are multiple frozen balls in the cluster, a push or double hit can be avoided by shooting away from the centerline of balls to allow the cb an escape path. Not sure what the minimum angle would be, but I'm sure some pool physics gurus could come up with an answer for that.
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Yeah, that's what I meant and further, what a waste of perfectly good ball physics. lol...
There's an old trick shot where you line a few balls up in a straight line next to the rack. All the balls are froze and the cb is the 1st ball in the line. You shoot a draw shot and the cb goes up table a couple of feet and then loops back around the rack and pockets a ball in the adjacent corner pocket.
This is a good example of an illegal push shot. It's an easy shot to pull off because that line of balls makes it possible for the cue tip to remain in contact with the object for a longer period of time. The same amount of draw action is a lot more difficult to do if there are only 1 or 2 balls frozen to the cb, where all the balls immediately depart the cue tip upon impact. But with 5 or 6 balls in the line it's easy because the cb is trapped and can't go anywhere except for being pushed by the cue.
If you were familiar with pushing clusters around, shots like that could provide better options than just nudging the cue ball.
They could be shot as intentional fouls.