Excellent... I'm curious if this is the same for other CTE practitioners...?
System .v.s. Experience
- Thread starter The_JV
- Start date
Can I assume from this quote that the intent of CTE is to find the center ball aim line accurately for each shot?
I guess this aiming method uses a center ball cueing method too.
And Brian tells us that he uses a touch of side, sometimes, to adjust, but the inference is a touch from center ball for the rest of the shots.
My question for all is whether their ideal aim line, determined by each system, uses a center ball cueing method?
My answer was that we all end up using experience in the long run. Getting to that point can either be through a system or through traditional trial and error. It doesn't matter. When we're playing in the zone, the same mind-body process that allows a nonsystem player to be in the zone is what allows a system player to be in the zone. I agree with you, that ultimately it's our experience that guides us. Because experience is the end result of learning something, regardless of how we initially learned it (system or no system).
JB says a CTE player in the zone is still doing consciously contolled body actions. But that conflicts with research that describes what's occurring when an athlete or sportsman enters the "zone". So I'll go with the research, which indicates that people who are performing in the zone are using very little conscious effort, if any. It's a free-flowing process where the body already knows how to perform without having to be controlled or micromanaged by conscious thoughts.
With that said, maybe the steps JB is referring to are not part of the body's performance but really just a mechanism to get the body in position to perform. I know for non cte players we do this simply by looking at the shot. Doing the perceptions is a cte player's way of looking at the shot.
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For the shots where I actually use a system, the center ball aim line is the reference. From there, depending on speed and spin, experience takes over.
It's the physical manifestation of the process of shot making that I'm speaking of.... Not the mental side of it
I have a rigid PSR that I follow. All the motions are calculated and performed in a certain manner. Much like I would imagine a system would dicate how the player is to physically approach a shot. I don't follow my rigid performance while in the zone. I am curious if system users deviate as well while in that 'zone'.
It must be said that one can feel confident about a shot and still be aimed wrong. I am pretty sure that we have all had those WTF moments where we are inexplicably missing what are routine shots.
Last night at the Pool Dojo when we were training I couldn't make straight in shots despite feeling like I was dead nuts on the line. we were using Gordy Vanderveer's Striking Line template mats (freaking AWESOME kit btw) so every possible alignment prop was set up for the shooter to get their cue on the center to center alignment. Despite that I was missing to the right.
I was frustrated and my teammates were telling me that my cue was angled a little to the left and so on.... I took a break and later when I came back I completed the exercise on the first attempt. The reason I was able to do that is because I chose to not rely on the template for my alignment but instead on the balls. I chose a deliberate center to center aim and then focused on the center of the cueball and the pocket which is a technique that I learned from professional player Jimmy Reid (rip). That way I wasn't reliant on a line mapped out on the table and my feeling that my cue was really on that line. While I know that I can have issues with my stroking I knew that it wasn't so bad that I couldn't make these straight in shots consistently. So instead of letting everyone comment on my stroke and try to tweak it I refocused on a proven technique to let my eyes objectively use the balls, pocket and edges and centers to have my body follow and place the cue. And when I did that the cue indeed landed on the center ball shot line.
Now, it is of course possible that I could have found the right tweaks to rely on the marked line by feel. But my thinking is that had I done that to achieve the goal would it have really helped me later in game situations without the template since I was more attuned to that line and the guides to get through the exercise? I mean, OBJECTIVELY speaking, the marked template contains everything one should need to get the cue on the shot line so it should be easier but it is my opinion that in this particular instance the extra objective guides were not helping me.
But yes, I forget who said this, maybe Michael Jordan, "I just practiced so much that come game time I just had to let my mind and body do what it was already trained to do." And I fully believe that when it comes to systems that is exactly why they are so beneficial. They give a reliable framework which the user can practice within and come game time the user has full trust in what their mind and body already trained to do.
I’m talking about shots where position is not an issue.
Like a half ball shot to a corner from mid table for game.
Is your system default aim line through center ball?
When it comes to shot making, the physical manifestation is hardwired to the mental side of it.
To be honest, whenever I've been playing in the zone I couldn't tell you what I was or wasn't doing while I was playing. I couldn't tell you if music was blasting in the background or if someone was talking during by stroke.
I can enter the same mindset when reading a book in a crowded airport. My mind tunes out everything except for what I am focusing on. From everything I've read about peak performance, this is how others describe their "zone" experiences. Their body simply steps away from the mind for a while, still connected, but from a distance, like the violinist who sees the conductor but knows very well the conductor can't play the violin, and as long as he lets the violinist play, uninterrupted, peak performance is possible.
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I don't. Because there is no zone without the aiming system for me. There is no zone where the mental work of using the system is not part of the process. The zone you are speaking of is one where the player is doing all the right things but not deliberately paying attention to the process.
For me I will often talk to myself and repeat certain mantras and steps until I start just applying the steps smoothly without telling myself to do so. Not sure if I explained this right but imagine it something like this. Stay calm, think, focus, this is center to edge - edge to A - ok got it now right or left sweep, right ok do that, there it is, (go down to the shot line) - breath, stay calm, stay down, check your speed, shoot..... That might be an actual conversation happening in my head before every shot. Then as the match goes on the conversation will be something like edge to A - right sweep, focus. And eventually it's just "breath" or even nothing as I am in a zone where the aiming perceptions are found and system applied with all of the same motions and body movements as when I was talking myself through it.
And...importantly sometimes that will lead to getting a little lazy and going towards "just seeing it" and there will come a miss that is unexpected that snaps me back into talking my way through it to get refocused.
i aim mainly by overlap and contact point and sometimes fractions
and yes it is based on a vertical axis hit on the cueball
Yes.
But I am also prone to spin certain shots in. I know the aim line needed for those shots as well.
Side note.... I recently switched from a Kamui super soft to a Sniper tip. Now that "known" aim line for spinning shots is too fat. Instead of consciously forcing myself to make that adjustment everytime, I have decided to go back to the kamui tip.
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And yet several pros do use it. many after they have reached pro level. One, in particular, is currently working with other pros to teach them CTE from a peer to peer position.
If someone wants to learn anything then it's generally good for them if qualified instructors are available to teach them.
Exactly... However the 'right thing' is merely the successful shot. Not the stuff leading up to it. ...and that was why I asked the question in relation to my own game.
For me the 'zone' is just landing without rigid PSR close enough to the right spot so my subconcious can still make the micro adjustments before pulling the trigger.
Perhaps but I am not at half-a-million yet so maybe you need to play someone else until I get there.Sound like we have a game then. I like my coffee black.
Ok so, I'll maintain that I'm not a system user per say. However when I address the CB, I land with center cuing in mind. From there I'll make adjustments.
Sounds good... I'm thinking I may need to experiment with some playing glasses as well, so this shoud buy me some time to experiment...
What money? Do you think that all pros who are using CTE are also teaching it and advertising that they are teaching it? Furthermore your insinuation is that they are ONLY in it for whatever money they can make out of teaching it. As someone who has worked with several pros to get them into teaching I can tell you that pros can do very well as pool instructors/coaches without the slightest need to teach aiming systems beyond ghost ball.
Eyesight is very important. I am over 50 and pre-diabetic. I didn't know that there was a pre-diabetic condition. What it means is that I am more susceptible to the symptoms that plague diabetics such as how my sugar levels affect my visual acuity. Hence sometimes my vision will be fairly clear according to my current cataract/astigmatism condition and sometimes it will be really cloudy. For the times when it is cloudy I have to adjust my diet to get it back in line. I didn't even know that my vision could be affected by what I eat. I mean I think we all pretty much have that eat carrots for better vision concept that we learned as kids but I didn't know that my vision could be negatively affected by whether I had eaten certain foods an hour before.Sounds good... I'm thinking I may need to experiment with some playing glasses as well, so this shoud buy me some time to experiment...
On this subject I will share a screenshot of a testimonial from a new CTE user that I came across yesterday.
I forgive you for answering a system specific question, because whatever you do is your specific systematic way of playing shots.
My further question for you concerns adjustments.
Do your adjustments take you to an altered center ball line adjusted for cut induced throw?
Bear with me here....
I address the center of the CB, and align my cue to the shot line required to pot the OB with a rolling shot. This will include CIT adjustment if required. No system, just HAMB experience. I have no concious memory of making this adjustment while addressing the CB although I know it must happen....lol
I'll then adjust my bridge to place the required english on the CB, if required. If that bridge adjustment includes enough siding to generate squirt, I then will alter my shot line to compensate. ...again HAMB, no system.
I'm a very flat cueist unless the shot requires something else, so I don't find myself having to compensate for swerve often, although it does obviously happen.