System .v.s. Experience
- Thread starter The_JV
- Start date
I would be remiss if I didn’t warn you about the visuals.
Traditional methods of applying side involved either a lateral shift from the center ball line or a flaring away from that line.
This method crosses the center ball line, it converges, and that changes the tip angle comparatively, rotating it back somewhat towards center than cue lines that diverge.
Initially you are better to use the midpoint of the reference line as your straight cueing target.
That practice pays dividends when you start shooting cutback shots; any blind pocket.
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There has to be a joke in there somewhere, about chalking the right tip.
I can just say that player who was D player is solid B now, after 1 year when i taught my tricks to improve aiming. And I coached once in every 2 months(maybe 7-9 times total) my little sister when she came back to pool after 20+ year break and she got picked first to represent Finland in European Champs 2020 in women.
Just couple examples.
For me that tell enough. I don´t need anyone else opinion really.
When in the zone, it is hard to see oneself doing whatever.
But it is possible to figure it out without disrupting it. Then a player can let that subconscious way be a guide and identify it, copy it, practice it, learn it. A partner who is honest about your game can help. Good luck finding someone like that. Video works. Mirrors.
Jeff Livingston
John, that is the best response to these "negative nobodies" that's ever been written in here.
It makes me stop and think...…"what the hell am I myself doing wasting my time in this place around these losers"
Stay happy, stay healthy, and take care.
Lowenstein.
You are helping the lurkers. In fact the lurkers listen better than those directly involved in the arguments.
If a player is a romantic, he must help others learn some of the secrets. If not, yea, kick ass and let the losers try to figure it out themselves.
Jeff Livingston
Fair enough... I guess I'm taking liberties in the assumption that I'm not fully following my deliberate PSR etc...
I just know that my PSR/aiming method is very very deliberate, and I simply couldn't shoot as fast as I do when 'in the zone' if I wasn't blurring the lines through the method
I try to help when I can. However I don't consider those who wish not to heed my advice losers. Honestly I think it's this language that devolves these threads.
cool... lots of other words in the english language that shouldn't be casually thrown about as well.
Preception is everything. In my youth I didn't care about what others thought of me. When I matured it took decades to recover from that charaterization I had built up.
I call amateurs 'chumps' sometimes. It's not a putdown about the Person, just a way of describing their games to others.
'Bangers' is another term used for amateurs. The moral part of this type of language is that each of us who uses those terms has been that exact player himself before, so any putdown could also be said to be a putdown of the speaker's play style, too.
Jeff, superchump at times, Livingston
'Bangers' is another term used for amateurs. The moral part of this type of language is that each of us who uses those terms has been that exact player himself before, so any putdown could also be said to be a putdown of the speaker's play style, too.
Jeff, superchump at times, Livingston
I took this about how CTE ends up with a slight overcut, as being compared to the center ball, ghost ball standard reference.
The system apparently generates the comparative impact position, the user doesn’t have to adjust to get there.
So we are both right.
And I agree that there are a significant number of shots we play, that contact point aiming will work just fine with.
Even just adding a slight overcut bias, guarding against an undercut, to that method, will work on most shots using follow or draw, up to a half table away.
Adding speed to follow and draw extends that distance somewhat.
But only works if speed can be used to attain position.
Stun, with half table plus distance to a pocket needs an adjustment and gearing will do the job.
These are all adjustments to center ball though, not something system generated, and create limitations.
Plus gearing is an off center solution eliminating cut induced throw from the equation.
Sure I will try you, what's your name?
I have a valley table and I can borrow a Viagra for your dry shoe problem.
Late to the party but 1) HAMB worsens bad habits without aim knowledge 2) most pros have systems, even if those systems are only for select shots (think about this) . . .
No Hamb doesnt......think about this.......
If HAMB can worsen bad habits, then HAMB can STRENGTHEN good habits........
It all depends on the person...
1) In terms of aim I find that a slightly confusing statement. If I miss a shot to the left, then I correct my aim so the OB travels more to the right until I get to the pocketing line. That is then stored in memory and reinforced the next time I either pot the shot on the first attempt or miss it to the left again. That's the opposite of worsening.
I can definitely see what you're saying in terms of mechanics or alignment or whatever else.
2) Although I wouldn't be so bold as to speak on behalf of "most pros" I would have to assume someone that plays the game professionally could be using aspects of established systems or more likely has developed their own. (<--HAMB)
I personally follow steps and perform them in a specific fashion based on my HAMB experience. If I choose to jot them down and gave the manifesto a catchy name I could then call myself a system user.
I agree.
For a long time there was one particular shot I would under cut by just a hair. On most tables it would drop but on the tight Diamond I’m on nowadays it was a no-go. Little by little I adjusted. It didn’t take HAMB, more like HADB, and now I’m good to go.
Really no system, just experience.
Lou Figueroa
Experience/HAMB doesn't so much "worsen" or "strengthen" habits.... It creates and solidifies habits, both good and bad.
Through HAMB (trial and error) you can pay attention to feedback and make neccessary adjustments and try again. Each time paying attention to the results/feedback you get. This is a good habit to develop for learning and improving skills. But a player can also develop, through HAMB, the habit of not paying attention to feedback, and that's a bad habit that dosen't offer good learning or improvement opportunity. It's up to the willingness or desire of the individual player as to whether or not HAMB is effective.
Likewise, a player can use a system that provides immediate good results, but without investing purposeful attention to what is going on, they create a habit of dependency, like the kid who is slow to take the training wheels off the bike because he has not been paying enough attention to really learn how to ride and balance on two wheels.
Or a player can use a system and pay attention to what's going on with every shot, visually and physically. This creates a good habit that helps develop the skills they're trying to attain.
Learning a skill involves consciously accumulating and following instructions and procedures. Initially this data/knowledge is stored in the working area of the brain as explicit memories. Through experience and repetition (conscious effort of following instructions and paying attention to feedback), explicit memories eventually become implicit memories (embedded into the subconscious). From then on very little conscious effort is needed to perform the skill. The conscious mind really ends up being no more than a mechanism that triggers the neural network associated with the specific skill you've hardwired into implicit memory.
This is a long-winded way of saying HAMB is a part of the hardwiring process when it comes to converting conscious instructions to subconscious skills. System or no system, experience (HAMB) plays a part in that process.
Through HAMB (trial and error) you can pay attention to feedback and make neccessary adjustments and try again. Each time paying attention to the results/feedback you get. This is a good habit to develop for learning and improving skills. But a player can also develop, through HAMB, the habit of not paying attention to feedback, and that's a bad habit that dosen't offer good learning or improvement opportunity. It's up to the willingness or desire of the individual player as to whether or not HAMB is effective.
Likewise, a player can use a system that provides immediate good results, but without investing purposeful attention to what is going on, they create a habit of dependency, like the kid who is slow to take the training wheels off the bike because he has not been paying enough attention to really learn how to ride and balance on two wheels.
Or a player can use a system and pay attention to what's going on with every shot, visually and physically. This creates a good habit that helps develop the skills they're trying to attain.
Learning a skill involves consciously accumulating and following instructions and procedures. Initially this data/knowledge is stored in the working area of the brain as explicit memories. Through experience and repetition (conscious effort of following instructions and paying attention to feedback), explicit memories eventually become implicit memories (embedded into the subconscious). From then on very little conscious effort is needed to perform the skill. The conscious mind really ends up being no more than a mechanism that triggers the neural network associated with the specific skill you've hardwired into implicit memory.
This is a long-winded way of saying HAMB is a part of the hardwiring process when it comes to converting conscious instructions to subconscious skills. System or no system, experience (HAMB) plays a part in that process.
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Just wanted to let you know that I decided to grab an online copy of your book just now.
Hopefully it's obvious at this point that I'm a HAMB/feel kind of player. However I do experience days that just 'feel' off, and I resort to pure muscle memory from HAMB if you will. I thought it would be nice to have something in my back pocket I could check my HAMB experience against when I do struggle. I watched a couple of your YT vids and like your mathematic approach. It strikes me as something I could retain, and best yet won't force me to reinvent my fundamental/PSR wheel.
Not sure if one actually exists but Lulu prompts the purchaser for a discount code. I ran the gambit on what I thought was the obvious, and even tried 'CTE' for giggles without any luck. The ebook is so cheap it really doesn't need a discount. Just thought I'd mention that it did ask for one.
I look forward to reading it.