is there a "best" way to make this shot?

Rethinking this shot.... I believe it should be shot with a confident stroke, leaving nothing to chance and nothing to question. Use straight draw, medium speed, pulling the cb straight across to the side rail.

There is no position to play, so just put the ball in the pocket and avoid any likelyhood of scratching.
 
evergruven said:
position is not needed- just make the ball
obviously we don't want to scratch
so then is it just about comfort level?
or is there a "best" way to make this shot?
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If there is No natural scratch in the upper r/h pocket. KIS. Just hit it with a 12'oclock high cue ball with a cue ball speed that will take it two rails. Once you start adding, spin, draw, outside cueing and Cue ball speed, those variables will cause more misses than a natural rolling cue ball at the proper pocketing speed.
Also, you'll better develop your muscle memory for a common shot that should be missed very seldom.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
I'd shoot it with a confident easy roll stroke.

pj
chgo
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That depends on the table. Is it a barbox or a 9 footer? Does it roll straight?
Will you cut it perfectly to avoid a scratch?
I mean, if you're on a barbox it looks like it would be very close to a scratch, so hitting it a slight bit off will probably still pocket the ball but send the cb straight into the corner. All of these questions is what makes me just wanna shoot it with draw and avoid any unnecessary drama.
 
BC21 said:
...if you're on a barbox it looks like it would be very close to a scratch
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A little more speed sensitive maybe because the pocket's closer, but I think with the same hit the CB tracks to about the same end rail spot (close to a diamond from the pocket) - on a smaller table the OB as shown is proportionally closer to the end rail.

pj
chgo
 
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A ball going in the pocket at the proper speed w/o any added variables, will often allow the shot too go in, even if it slightly catches the rail or cushion nose on it's way in.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
A little more speed sensitive maybe because the pocket's closer, but I think with the same hit the CB tracks to about the same end rail spot (close to a diamond from the pocket) - because the change in table size brings the OB proportionally closer to the end rail.

pj
chgo
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Ok...I just shot it several times on my 8ft diamond. Rolling the cb lands it about 3 inches from the corner scratch. I think on a 9ft it would hit about a diamond out, and on a 7ft it would scratch.

I shot it with draw a few times also. I like shooting it either way, follow or draw, but on a barbox I'm avoiding that corner pocket scratch with draw.

That's why I think the best advice for the op is to shoot it a few times, trying different options, and find out what works best for you. It doesn't matter if Fran likes the follow, or PJ likes the follow, or I like draw, or somebody else likes draw with inside or outside spin. All that matters is what you can do most consistently. That's the best way to shoot the shot.
 
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FranCrimi said:
That's different than the shot that was diagrammed. Look at the cb near the rail in the diagrammed shot. There was a stronger angle in the diagram. If the cb starts to force follow on the diagram shot, yes, there's a possibility of a scratch, but otherwise there's no chance of a scratch.
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Bob Jewett said:
Have you had a chance to try any of the suggestions? Are you able to tell which side of the corner pocket the cue ball will hit for a slow roller? Which shot works best for you?
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agree fran, I tried to diagram the shot in a way where the corner scratch was unlikely, but still possible

bob, I tried the shot several times before I posted, and still, I like a little outside on the ball, and with draw
rolling it is ok, but I feel like I have more control over the shot, and the cb position using draw
trying to beat a scratch with speed gets me sometimes
but if I'm slow-rolling the ball, I can visualize the cb path better
 
evergruven said:
agree fran, I tried to diagram the shot in a way where the corner scratch was unlikely, but still possible

bob, I tried the shot several times before I posted, and still, I like a little outside on the ball, and with draw
rolling it is ok, but I feel like I have more control over the shot, and the cb position using draw
trying to beat a scratch with speed gets me sometimes
but if I'm slow-rolling the ball, I can visualize the cb path better
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Here are two ways I tried it... I hit the draw shots more accurately than the follow. Maybe because I'm timid, considering how close it comes to scratching.


 
BC21 said:
Here are two ways I tried it... I hit the draw shots more accurately than the follow. Maybe because I'm timid, considering how close it comes to scratching.


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brian, thanks for the vids, and relate to your findings
suppose now scratching was not of concern
do you still prefer drawing the cb on that shot?
 
evergruven said:
brian, thanks for the vids, and relate to your findings
suppose now scratching was not of concern
do you still prefer drawing the cb on that shot?
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If there's 0% threat of a scratch shot, I'd use follow/top with a comfortable medium speed. I prefer using follow as often as possible. But you have to weigh the options and choose the shot that feels right (for you) for any particular situation.
 
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BC21 said:
Ok...I just shot it several times on my 8ft diamond. Rolling the cb lands it about 3 inches from the corner scratch. I think on a 9ft it would hit about a diamond out, and on a 7ft it would scratch.

I shot it with draw a few times also. I like shooting it either way, follow or draw, but on a barbox I'm avoiding that corner pocket scratch with draw.

That's why I think the best advice for the op is to shoot it a few times, trying different options, and find out what works best for you. It doesn't matter if Fran likes the follow, or PJ likes the follow, or I like draw, or somebody else likes draw with inside or outside spin. All that matters is what you can do most consistently. That's the best way to shoot the shot.
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What no one has mentioned that's Always in play....table conditions.
If this play area is Humid with a ball set that's very dirty, the scratch in the r/h pocket would easily come into play.
Also, the cue ball type your using will effect matters allot.
Food for thought.
 
FranCrimi said:
After seeing the shot from the shooter's stance perspective, I would have hit it low as well. Good video work there.
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Thanks. But I believe on a 9ft table, considering your level of experience, your initial selection (using soft or medium soft follow) is probably the best way to play it, as long as the player feels comfortable and confident with that shot, and the table rolls true. It is more forgiving on tighter tables.

One thing about this game that I think is a common problem for some players is to try to play a shot exactly like someone else plays it, simply because that someone else is a better player. Of course there are plenty of shots where copying better players is the right thing to do, but some shots are really just a matter of personal preference, and individual players have to develop the experience required to know what works best for them.
 
Island Drive said:
What no one has mentioned that's Always in play....table conditions.
If this play area is Humid with a ball set that's very dirty, the scratch in the r/h pocket would easily come into play.
Also, the cue ball type your using will effect matters allot.
Food for thought.
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Yes exactly... Maybe I should qualify my thoughts in these threads.

In a perfect world rolling through would always go without flaw. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't live in this world. If you open the door to unknowns some may just walk in. Again, I've had enough bad luck* to know better.

*In my humble opinion, this is just a designation given to the outcomes that aren't fully grasped by the viewer. In this example, "bad luck" would be used to describe the CB kicking off the OB and dropping in the corner. In reality this is just an outcome that could have been easily avoided. So is it bad 'luck' or bad play...? I vote the latter.

To expand on this... In this example wherein something 'bad' would have to happen for the sewer to occur. We can argue the validity of the CB draw requirement. Adjust the cut angle just a touch, then you need to actively defend against the sewer. Why not approach this shot that rides the edge of a borderline sewer as a true to form dead sewer..? As the player, you can add noise to the situation with debating the safe play requirement, or just default to it.
 
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On shots like this it's good to know Dr. Dave's 30° peace sign trick. Stand by the ob and visualize the aim line, the path the cb is taking to the ob. Make a piece sign with your hand over the ghostball location so that your index finger is along the aim line. Your middle finger will be pointing fairly close to where the cb will go after it strikes the ob.

This is something you can do in a match, as long as you don't touch/move the ball. I remember playing Dr. Dave once and he did this several times throughout the match. It's pretty accurate for shots around this angle.

 
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The_JV said:
.....

In my humble opinion, this is just a designation given to the outcomes that aren't fully grasped by the viewer. In this example, "bad luck" would be used to describe the CB kicking off the OB and dropping in the corner. In reality this is just an outcome that could have been easily avoided. So is it bad 'luck' or bad play...? I vote the latter.
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I agree. Luck tends to get the blame, even when the player is 100% at fault.
 
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BC21 said:
Thanks. But I believe on a 9ft table, considering your level of experience, your initial selection (using soft or medium soft follow) is probably the best way to play it, as long as the player feels comfortable and confident with that shot, and the table rolls true. It is more forgiving on tighter tables.

One thing about this game that I think is a common problem for some players is to try to play a shot exactly like someone else plays it, simply because that someone else is a better player. Of course there are plenty of shots where copying better players is the right thing to do, but some shots are really just a matter of personal preference, and individual players have to develop the experience required to know what works best for them.
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Oh, okay... I didn't realize that it was an 8 ft table. It might be a little different then. I missed that part.
 
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