Jump sticks have changed the game

There will be no ban.

If you dont want your opponent using one against you APA is for you.
Yes, as is the Derby City Classic, which is possibly the single best event on the American pool calendar. It is aseven tournaments in one, consisting of a 1-pocket event, a bank pool event, a nine ball event, a ten ball event, and three midnight tournaments. Leave your jump cue at home for the Derby.

Agreed that a ban is inconceivable. There are too many buyers and sellers at this stage of the proceedings. Jump cues are here to stay.

Still, let's not waste our time comparing today's players to those of yesteryear, who played without cue extensions and jump sticks. The legendary Luther Lassiter is reputed to have run a 21-pack in 9-ball in the late 1950s (in the interest of full disclosure, Jay Helfert says it was only a 19-pack, but neither of us saw it, LOL). I wonder how many racks of 9-ball Lassiter would have run if he could have played through the air anytime he missed position? Dan DiLiberto has raised this point before, and I think it's a fair question.
 
You're actually trying to link jump cues and whether or not US players have won a WC lately? You've got your opinion, BELEIVE me we get it. Not everyone shares it. DerbyCity is probably one of if not THE most anticipated/attended tournament there is and they don't allow them. Are you going to call Diamond and tell them you won't attend the next one 'cause they don't allow jump cues? The reason(s) that US players are behind the rest of the world has nothing to do with jump cues. Lack of junior players and too many bar-box events maybe but not any so-called 'backwards' opinion about jump cues.
did I say anything about attendance. You're trying to convince me that because one prestigious event doesn't allow them then that's some kind of reason not to attend. Of course players are going to show up to a mecca of pool regardless of whatever special rules for that event they want to implement.

It's a numbers game. The less skill and experience that a player has to bring to bear in pressure situations the lower the odds that that player will succeed in pressure situations. The rest of the world competes using jump cues so they are very very good at using them in pressure situations and thus when presented with jump shots they are more likely to succeed than an opponent with less experience.

These same players however can also kick as well as any other pro so there is ZERO disadvantage for them to play in an event like Derby. In other words, BECAUSE we go out our way to handicap our players in many of our events we insure that the amount of jumping experience under pressure that they get is less than those in the rest of the world. And that means that it plays a part in why our players don't succeed as much as they should or could in my opinion.

Yes, BACKWARDS, the opposite of FORWARD. 250 years ago pocket billiards was played with and on equipment that no one would accept today. In that span we have seen the introduction of better cloth, better instruments (cues vs the mace), tips and ferrules, chalk, rubber cushions, and precision ground matched slate along with better tables in general. A jump cue is merely a continuation of that progress. It is a tool that is nearly, if not actually, perfect for the task it was created for. It is available to every player of any skill level and represents a skill to be mastered.

Modern jump cues add a ton of shots to the game. Basically almost any shot that can be made without one can be made with a jump cue adding the additional difficulty of the jumping action to the shot. Jump-safe, jump-kick, jump-pocket(pot), jump-masse', these are four shots where the addition of a blocking ball has made the shot much more difficult. However without a jump cue most of the possible shots with a jump cue would be nearly, if not completely, impossible.

Just like chalk adds a ton of shots to the game. Don't believe me, then go play someone equal to you in speed for a ton of money and you don't get to use chalk on your tip.

In every aspect of this sport the equipment has improved and for some strange reason ONLY IN AMERICA there is a vocal minority of "get off my lawn" types who jabber on about the "integrity of the game" and such nonsense while NEVER EVER EVER calling for the game to played with the equipment from 1837.

My advice, get over it and realize that jump cues are part of the SPORT on the WORLD STAGE and handicapping your players by disallowing the cues and then abusing them with guilt-trips about the "integrity" of the game and "you're not a man if you don't kick" stuff only holds them back.

A well rounded player practices and masters all aspects of the game and if owning a jump cue means that a player neglects to learn kicking then that is PURELY that individual's problem. Barring players from using jump cues is a systemic problem that harms the players in general.
 
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Yes, as is the Derby City Classic, which is possibly the single best event on the American pool calendar. It is aseven tournaments in one, consisting of a 1-pocket event, a bank pool event, a nine ball event, a ten ball event, and three midnight tournaments. Leave your jump cue at home for the Derby.

Agreed that a ban is inconceivable. There are too many buyers and sellers at this stage of the proceedings. Jump cues are here to stay.

Still, let's not waste our time comparing today's players to those of yesteryear, who played without cue extensions and jump sticks. The legendary Luther Lassiter is reputed to have run a 21-pack in 9-ball in the late 1950s (in the interest of full disclosure, Jay Helfert says it was only a 19-pack, but neither of us saw it, LOL). I wonder how many racks of 9-ball Lassiter would have run if he could have played through the air anytime he missed position? Dan DiLiberto has raised this point before, and I think it's a fair question.
Its purely a money thing at this point. If they disappeared tomorrow the only people that would miss them are those who make/sell them.
 
Yes, as is the Derby City Classic, which is possibly the single best event on the American pool calendar. It is aseven tournaments in one, consisting of a 1-pocket event, a bank pool event, a nine ball event, a ten ball event, and three midnight tournaments. Leave your jump cue at home for the Derby.

Agreed that a ban is inconceivable. There are too many buyers and sellers at this stage of the proceedings. Jump cues are here to stay.

Still, let's not waste our time comparing today's players to those of yesteryear, who played without cue extensions and jump sticks. The legendary Luther Lassiter is reputed to have run a 21-pack in 9-ball in the late 1950s (in the interest of full disclosure, Jay Helfert says it was only a 19-pack, but neither of us saw it, LOL). I wonder how many racks of 9-ball Lassiter would have run if he could have played through the air anytime he missed position? Dan DiLiberto has raised this point before, and I think it's a fair question.
He would have been able to run as many racks as he would have otherwise by shooting until he missed. I would be willing to bet super high that Lassiter didn't have any or many complicated kick shots in that alleged 19/21 racks. He likely didn't hook himself at all or extremely rarely.

"Played through the air" is actually harder than NOT jumping. For real, if you want me to INCREASE the difficulty of an otherwise "easy" shot then let me put a blocking ball in front of it.

It is honestly perplexing to me that true pool fans don't appreciate the skill it takes even on the "easiest" jump shots. And further confusing why they don't appreciate the IMMENSE skill it takes to be successful on the "tough" jump shots.

The real question is whether Wimpy would have had a jump cue IF they had been available and I would say that it is my opinion that he and the other top pros would have just as they do today if, as today, the penalties for not hitting object ball, would be ball in hand for the opponent and a huge chance that the game would then be lost. Back in Lassiter's day they played two-foul rollout as you surely know but some of the readers might not. Which meant that the incoming player could simply push the cueball anywhere when hooked and so there was no need for a jump cue. However the advent of one-foul ball-in-hand rules made it so much more imperative to hit the object ball and whenever possible as much as possible to control the path of the balls after the hit.

You will not find many, if any, true professional players who have legit odds to win any event they enter who doesn't have a jump cue or two in their case. I am pretty sure that the pros then played with the state-of-the-art equipment of the time.

Literal instruction to amateurs before jump cues used to be "kick hard and try to get lucky". Now we have a plethora of great kicking systems and free and easy access to them. In fact, most of these kicking systems have been available long before jump cues and so the lack of kicking prowess certainly cannot be pinned on the existence and use of jump cues.

Embrace and appreciate the wonderful progress and evolution that billiard sports have undergone. It is because of this that we are approaching the physical limits of what a human holding a chalked playing cue or a shorter cue called a jump cue can possibly do on the pool or billiard table. As long as it is the player controlling the instrument and the instrument gives the player no inherent advantage over the rest of the players why have a problem with it.

A jump shot is TOUGHER than a regular shot. A jump cue only makes a jump shot probable but it doesn't make the shot. The player wielding the cue makes the shot.
 
...and use them.

This argument could be used for nearly anything in pool.
I agree to a point for sure but most pool-related stuff doesn't change how the game is played to the extent that jc's do. Still prefer DCC's rule and always will. Done here..............
 
You are 100% wrong on that.
Agreed, John. I think a lot of people enjoy the jump shot and I credit you for giving me a greater appreciation of the skill required to execute a good jump. It's no secret that I prefer disallowing use of the jump cue on anything but the first shot of an inning, It's my 46th year as a fan, and I can bear witness that very few runouts gone wrong were saved with a good kick or full cue jump back in the day while thirty times as many runouts gone wrong are saved with a jump these days. Once upon a time, it was lose the position, lose the runout, and I'll always feel that that's as it should be.
 
Once upon a time, it was lose the position, lose the runout, and I'll always feel that that's as it should be.
I really can't argue against that... Players should be penalized for screwing up. Although the jump stick as saved my ass more than once. If the first shot of the inning rule became such then it's tough not to agree with the logic.
 
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Before jump cues could become disallowed, the primary logic for having them would have to be changed. The jump cue and One-Foul Ball-In-Hand appeared in the same era of pool history.

Other sports have tight rules on equipment. In our sport it is pretty much anything goes. It is up to a tournament promoter to decide rules and the parameters.

The jump cue is so abusive that I have considered banning it from use in my place. The only reason I have kept it is because of One-Foul. Rules for One-Foul need to be improved upon.
 
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The jump cue is so abusive that I have considered banning it from use in my place. The only reason I have kept it is because of One-Foul.
That seems like a rather odd reason to continue to allow your equipment to be abused. If I created a set of rules that maintained I had to run across the table with cleats on before every shot, would you let that slide as well...?...lol

I personally have never played by any set of rules other than the 'one-foul'. I don't even know how that game would be played. What do you do when a player sewers...? Potentail push out from above the head string...?
 
The spot shot used to be a common shot in 9 ball. Its never seen now under the new rules.

IIRC, If you were hooked you could push out and the incoming player could shoot it or pass it back. If they passed it back and the shooter hooked them again and they couldn't hit the object ball, then it was BIH anywhere. Scratch on the break was BIH in the kitchen.

There were other rule differences but its been so long I've forgotten most of them.

They changed the game, which is where the value of the jump cue became important.
 
That seems like a rather odd reason to continue to allow your equipment to be abused. If I created a set of rules that maintained I had to run across the table with cleats on before every shot, would you let that slide as well...?...lol

I personally have never played by any set of rules other than the 'one-foul'. I don't even know how that game would be played. What do you do when a player sewers...? Potentail push out from above the head string...?

The spot shot used to be a common shot in 9 ball. Its never seen now under the new rules.

IIRC, If you were hooked you could push out and the incoming player could shoot it or pass it back. If they passed it back and the shooter hooked them again and they couldn't hit the object ball, then it was BIH anywhere. Scratch on the break was BIH in the kitchen.

There were other rule differences but its been so long I've forgotten most of them.

They changed the game, which is where the value of the jump cue became important.
Scratch was BIH in kitchen UNLESS it was a players 2nd consec. foul, then it was BIH anywhere. 9b was played a LONG time before one-foul showed up. It was to speed up tournament play. That's it. Not to make the game better. 2-shot rollout is a far better game, especially if you're gambling. Less luck, more strategy.
 
It's a very tough statistic, I think. Most of the time, when you jump, you are in trouble anyway and may sell out even with a kick. The fact that you were hooked was then the reason why you lost, probably.

Jumpshots can potentially win games, but often do not. I think the make percentage for most players, even at the highest level is pretty abysmal. Often, when people win with jumpshots, they miss and get a lucky return safe. Unless my opponent has a very easy shot to make, I fancy my chances to get back to the table, even against high levels of competitors. Even with relatively easy shots, unless the player is quite good at jumping, I'm probably a favourite to get back to the table. I do think that the make percentage for most players can be easily improved, though.
I’ve just recently learned how to use a jump cue thanks to the predator air 2, which I find easier to jump with than any other jump cue I’ve previously tried.

There are only two situations currently that I will consider using a jump cue. The first is if there are no easy one or two cushion kicking lanes available to hit the ball but it can be hit by jumping over an obstructing ball that is between no less than 6 inches or no more than 2-1/2 to 3 feet in front of the cue ball.

The second is if the object ball is close enough to the pocket to make it a relatively high percentage jump shot to pocket the ball, if a high percentage rail first kick is not available.

Otherwise, I feel good enough in my kicking ability to have the confidence by using the correct speed and spin to be able to separate the object ball and the cue ball far enough to have a better chance of leaving my opponent a tough shot.
 
Scratch was BIH in kitchen UNLESS it was a players 2nd consec. foul, then it was BIH anywhere. 9b was played a LONG time before one-foul showed up. It was to speed up tournament play. That's it. Not to make the game better. 2-shot rollout is a far better game, especially if you're gambling. Less luck, more strategy.
Is there a online source for those rules...?
 
I know that I’m the exception here, but I’d like to see the jump shot banned all together. And this comes from a person who owns a jump cue and has used it tournaments albeit a long time ago. Let‘s bring the game back to its purist form.
 
I know that I’m the exception here, but I’d like to see the jump shot banned all together. And this comes from a person who owns a jump cue and has used it tournaments albeit a long time ago. Let‘s bring the game back to its purist form.
I’m afraid you can’t go backwards - in its purest form, 9-ball would be a completely different game from today’s 9-ball game.

14.1 is the only game, other than possibly one pocket, that is still played in its purest form, for the few of us that still play it.
 
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