Holding visual focus

[The_JV]

The top gun analogy is cool, but that's a computer system that is programmed to know 100% when the target is locked in. The human mind doesn't operate like that, not even with something as simple as 2+2=4.

Numbers are stored in the mind as explicit memories. Explicit memories are facts and figures and all the acquired knowledge we have, as well as memories of events and experiences we've had. It's stuff that can be recalled by conscious thought.

The actual task of performing math is done by use of implicit memories, the networks that we've developed which allow us to perform skills and talents.

When we see or hear "2+2=", the conscious mind pulls the numbers and the mathematical signs from explicit memory and into the working area of the brain (our short term memory).
This triggers the subconscious to fire up the required math skill, which resides in our implicit memory, and the calculation is done and the subconscious provides 4 as the answer.

The conscious mind then recalls (from explicit memory) it's knowledge of the number 4. And it can then accept or reject 4 as the correct answer. The conscious mind can easily perform the task of 2+2 on its own. After all, that's how the subconscious math skill was developed in the first place, through repetitive conscious effort.

So the conscious mind can doublecheck the solution provided by the subconscious, and whether or not this is done is a matter of how we consciously feel about the answer 4. Just because the subconscious came up with 4 doesn't mean it's correct.

Look at 2 + 3 × 3.... If you have poorly developed math skills, your subconscious might give 15 as the answer. And when your conscious mind pulls 15 into the working area it can accept or reject that answer, based on whether or not it feels like it's correct. Your knowledge of math and numbers and your logical thinking process kicks in. If you've acquired adequate mathematical knowledge, you'll realize 15 is wrong. If you lack adequate mathematical knowledge your conscious thought might be...."fifteen....yes. It's fifteen." You'll feel like you're correct, but the answer is really 11.

Feel is always being used, but it's only as accurate as your skills and knowledge make it. And when your skills and knowledge are excellent, it can seem like feel is no longer involved. But the conscious mind is always doublechecking the subconscious process, though if there's too much going on in the working area of the brain, the conscious might slip up occassionally and let the subconscious perform totally unchecked. Sometimes this works out well, and other times, like with 2 + 3 × 3, it doesn't turn out well.

Damn....this was long. Sorry.

No worries, I read every word...

The one thing that kept popping into my mind as I read the portions of your post was "That's HAMB". Explicit memories of countless shots already performed.

I cannot argue, nor would I bother, against our (my) use of the subconcious was playing pool. We could simply drill down to simple motor skills and prove it's use. That's not the point... The point is "my" state of mind when I'm playing at "my" best. I do not play by 'feel' as those who use the word here on AZB do. Yes, I understand and like to think that we are having a slightly more advanced conversation and as such 'feel' is carrying a different definition for those active in this thread. (This is why I prefer to stick to actual definitions)

I will yield to the notion that I'm using my subconcious during play. I'd have to be an idiot to claim that it's not pulling the strings behind the curtain. Where I'll dig my heels in is the concept of playing by "feel". Sorry, there's that literal definition thing again. I'm willing to wager it does not mean to the majority of AZB users the same as it does to the few using it within this thread. Come up with a literal term to describe a fully manual style of concious play, and I may jump on board.

 

[Poolmanis]

Yes I understand, and once again on this forum I forced to point out that I choose to use the actual definition of words when either using or reading them. I don't have the AZB decoder ring. I'm not trying to be difficult, just concise.

As far as your figure of speech goes. Yes I also agree that that's most likely what people think of on AZB when considering feel. When I'm playing at my best (which is what we are discusssing at the moment), I do not actively rely on the subconcious recognition of a successful shot. Now seeing as this is a subconcious activity it could easily be said that I'm simply not aware of it, and I wouldn't be able to argue against that point. What I can tell you, is when I am playing my best, every step is called, calculated, performed. There's no grey area in which some task just happens.

What I am comparing it to, is my game when I'm simply free wheeling. I, like I would assume people on this forum, have a mode of game wherein I just walk around the table drop down to the next shot and fire everything in the pocket. This auto-pilot is what I would consider playing by "feel". No real effort put into PSR, aim, variable adjustments, etc....

i am nowadays also doing a lot of calculating and stuff when i practice and play even. Sometimes i force myself practice just fast and loose and still think but trying to make fast decisions to sum up calculated stuff to feel department. I also try fix shots that i feel or see "wrong" doing them slow and trying to calculate all effects that come to play and replace bad one with proper one and then making repeats.

Anyways here is my best "zone" drill i made where i just go and fire everything in (317 balls in 1h 8min and i use about 20 min of that picking up balls and putting them up)while i need really good cueball also due restriction of drill.

 

[The_JV]

i am nowadays also doing a lot of calculating and stuff when i practice and play even. Sometimes i force myself practice just fast and loose and still think but trying to make fast decisions to sum up calculated stuff to feel department. I also try fix shots that i feel or see "wrong" doing them slow and trying to calculate all effects that come to play and replace bad one with proper one and then making repeats.

Anyways here is my best "zone" drill i made where i just go and fire everything in (317 balls in 1h 8min and i use about 20 min of that picking up balls and putting them up)while i need really good cueball also due restriction of drill.

I've watched that video before. I'm not a drill kind of guy, so I haven't tried it myself.

What you did do with your post is shed some light on an aspect of my game that most closely resembles "feel". Although it doesn't happen too often there are times that everything for a giving shot seems right, but I just don't feel (literal) comfortable with what's going on. That results in a full reset of shot. Not just a stand up, but a whole mind clearing excercise.

 

[duckie]

My game went up greatly when I stopped looking at others for answers and started doing things my way.

The answers you seek are not outside of yourself.

Are you someone that plays at pool or are you a pool player?

If you think there is no difference, then you are just someone that just plays at pool. In motorcycling, we call them posers......got the look and talk, but cant do the walk.

 

[The_JV]

The answers you seek are not outside of yourself.

Are you someone that plays at pool or are you a pool player?

I'm sure it's was meant to be rhetorical, but if not, then the answer to your question can be found in this thread.

 

[chefjeff]

So, what I'm saying is, look at the cueball, not the object ball, when moving down into your stance.


Jeff Livingston

 

[BC21]

I've watched that video before. I'm not a drill kind of guy, so I haven't tried it myself.

What you did do with your post is shed some light on an aspect of my game that most closely resembles "feel". Although it doesn't happen too often there are times that everything for a giving shot seems right, but I just don't feel (literal) comfortable with what's going on. That results in a full reset of shot. Not just a stand up, but a whole mind clearing excercise.

In bold, that is the "feel" that most of us are describing when it comes to playing pool.

Like anything else life, the good things often occur and pass by with 100% acceptance, meaning we don't really think about how something feels (as far as whether or not we "feel" comfortable during a situation) unless we don't feel comfortable. That's when we consciously step back and think, "Something is wrong here."

When everything is going along smoothly, we have no reason question or pay attention to how comfortable we feel. This is because our conscious and subconscious thought processes are working in perfect harmony.

It's like when you purchase a new car, and you are satisfied with your purchase. You feel very good and comfortable with your purchase -- you love your new car. Despite this feeling of satisfaction, you likely won't go out of your way to call the dealership and tell them how you feel. You will just accept it, internally, maybe tell a few friends how great the car is, and move on with your life. But if the car turns out to be a lemon, you'll feel dissatisfied, not comfortable with your purchase, and you will most certainly contact the dealership to let them know how you feel about the car.

This same type of response to how we feel applies to everything we do, including playing pool. When a shot feels good and comfortable, there is no stopping to acknowledge that feeling. The conscious mind simply nods to the subconscious, as if to say, "Oh yeah, that looks good...do it." And then you move on. But when you don't feel comfortable with a shot, for whatever reason, the conscious mind brings everything to a hault, stopping the subconscious from performing until whatever feels wrong or uncomfortable is resolved.

That is operating by "feel" as far as performance is concerned, from music to golf to pool to whatever.

 

[chefjeff]

My wife used to joke she uses the feel method to do her checkbook (ok boomer):

"I feel like I have money in my account so I wrote the check."


Jeff Livingston

 

[Patrick Johnson]

... once again on this forum I forced to point out that I choose to use the actual definition of words when either using or reading them.
... As far as your figure of speech goes. Yes I also agree that that's most likely what people think of on AZB when considering feel.

You choose to be misunderstood...?

pj
chgo

 

[The_JV]

You choose to be misunderstood...?

pj
chgo

Sure if that's what you want to hear. I now could not care less about anyone's definition of "feel". Use it as you like.

 

[Imac007]

The point is "my" state of mind when I'm playing at "my" best. I do not play by 'feel' as those who use the word here on AZB do. Yes, I understand and like to think that we are having a slightly more advanced conversation and as such 'feel' is carrying a different definition for those active in this thread. (This is why I prefer to stick to actual definitions)

At best conversation is description.
It is a linear model lacking the timing and synchronicity of what it is trying to portray.
Those of us with a kinesthetic unconscious can use conscious word triggers to access unconscious resources.
Many dancers and gymnasts have that profile.
Because of being basically unaware of movement dynamics some K’s can appear awkward, not in touch with what they are doing.
Conversely, they have unconscious empathy, and mimicry comes easy.

Although it doesn't happen too often there are times that everything for a giving shot seems right, but I just don't feel (literal) comfortable with what's going on. That results in a full reset of shot. Not just a stand up, but a whole mind clearing excercise.

This is the other side of the feel dimension in the unconscious.
Once feel elements reach a threshold they insinuate themselves into consciousness.
It can be a flood of feeling stuff, needing a walk away, waiting for sensation to dissipate and return to the unconscious, starting over in “normal“ mode.
Awareness of the visual dominance in my subconscious allows a performance mode filled with visual details to transport me into patterns and information chunks my mind puts together into a somewhat trancing reality.

 

[The_JV]

The intent of the thread was to discuss focus on a ball while performing a shot. Not to focus on the use of the word "feel". To that I end I will not be wasting anymore of my time discussing a misused word. You all can 'feel' free to use "feel" at with reckless abandon without direct response from me....lol. I'm all for off topic tangents, but this is just grown tiresome.

If some need a "feeling" of closure, please 'feel' free to consider this post my admittance of being wrong regarding the word "feel" and how it applies to the way I play my game.

 

[Imac007]

The intent of the thread was to discuss focus on a ball while performing a shot. Not to focus on the use of the word "feel". To that I end I will not be wasting anymore of my time discussing a misused word. You all can 'feel' free to use "feel" at with reckless abandon without direct response from me....lol. I'm all for off topic tangents, but this is just grown tiresome.

If some need a "feeling" of closure, please 'feel' free to consider this post my admittance of being wrong regarding the word "feel" and how it applies to the way I play my game.

Focusing on a ball is a visual act.
Depending on what level of consciousness is dominant in visuals determines the efficacy of the act.
For me focusing on visuals is not so selective but part of a bigger process; an assembled pattern of visual behaviors functioning to control two balls.
In that dynamic, information transitions through stages that though separate when subjected to language description are coordinated, with some simultaneous processing, at the level of execution.
You are searching for the dynamic that fits and suits your profile and I’m giving you mine, thinking it may match yours.

 

[The_JV]

Focusing on a ball is a visual act.
Depending on what level of consciousness is dominant in visuals determines the efficacy of the act.
For me focusing on visuals is not so selective but part of a bigger process; an assembled pattern of visual behaviors functioning to control two balls.
In that dynamic, information transitions through stages that though separate when subjected to language description are coordinated, with some simultaneous processing, at the level of execution.
You are searching for the dynamic that fits and suits your profile and I’m giving you mine, thinking it may match yours.

Thanks Imac. I respect everyone's efforts within this thread. I'm just tired with arguing over something I really don't care about.

I'm guessing the bolded above is another way to describe what you mean by "feel"...lol.

I'm not searching for any dynamic that describes my style/profile. I wanted to discuss the visual focus I've been playing with before shooting and how it compares to others on the forum. The discussion regarding feel was an entertaining tangent, but for me it's run it course.

 

[Imac007]

I'm guessing the bolded above is another way to describe what you mean by "feel"...lol.

What I’m saying is in response to your question of the visual act of focusing on one ball or the other.
Since ball focus is a visual act, it aids me in accessing subconscious action, where peak performance occurs.
However, I’m telling you that trying to pull a single visual focus into everyday waking awareness would disrupt my flow of performance and act as a disruptor, is my answer, even if you don’t like the response.
The very act of pulling something from a subconscious state into conscious awareness, pulls me from the desired subconscious state.

 

[The_JV]

However, I’m telling you that trying to pull a single visual focus into everyday waking awareness would disrupt my flow of performance and act as a disruptor, is my answer, even if you don’t like the response.

I'm fine with the response... Please forgive me if I lose track of exactly what you're attempting to say. Sometimes the comments get a little wordy and seem to dance around without specifically conveying the point.

I write machine code for a living and tend to fall victim to scripting something that makes perfect sense to me but looks confusing as hell to someone else.

 

[The_JV]

Since ball focus is a visual act, it aids me in accessing subconscious action, where peak performance occurs.

The very act of pulling something from a subconscious state into conscious awareness, pulls me from the desired subconscious state.

Interesting... see I don't connect the visual focus on a ball to a subconcious action, unless you want to consider calling on memory a subconcious action. Which I guess it most certainly could be. I don't understand how the calling of memory works.

My goal is to not be in a subconcious state when I play the game. Not sure if that's even possible, and I'm fairly sure you consider that the opposite of what anyone should want. However I would greatly prefer to hold complete concious control over my actions. Case in point, and back to the original post. My eyes would dart rapidly back and forth from CB to OB. I considered that a subconcious effort to continually update shot/alignment data. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right. I won't pretend to have a firm handly on the subconcious. However when I became aware of that process I began to doubt my aim. Since then I have taken the steps mentioned in the first post to pull that subconcious darting of my eyes into concious control wherein a force focus on the OB.

If I understand the relationship correctly. Eventually my forced focus, will just become 'normal' focus and my subconcious will simply adopt the methodology.

There are countless activities that benefit from subconcious control over processes. Most of which I would consider anything that relies on reaction time. I can't think of a single aspect of pool that I would prefer to relinquish concious control over.

 

[Imac007]

I can't think of a single aspect of pool that I would prefer to relinquish concious control over.

If your conscious mind were in charge of nearly anything physical, it would take days to even move around the table.
Each muscle that needs to be contracted or released is usually done outside conscious control.
Every sport scientist who talks about the zone will tell you that the flow of peak performance occurs through subconscious effort.
When I speak of subconscious dominance I refer to what is either center focus or foreground sensory processing.
The other sense can be there in varying degrees but occupying the background or periphery.
Though we are dominant with eyedness or handedness doesn’t mean we don’t use the other hand/eye.
By knowing my subconscious dominance I know what serves me best as the content of my mind.

 

[chefjeff]

I had an old golf cassette tape where the guy explained it as:

"Consciously playing subconscious (pool)."

To do it, overlearn a skill consciously then consciously overlearn how to do that subconsciously.

Then consciously overlearn how to integrate that new skill with the rest of your shot and then overlearn how to do that subconsciously. whew!

It sounded easier when I heard it than it does when I type it.


Jeff Livingston

 

[The_JV]

If your conscious mind were in charge of nearly anything physical, it would take days to even move around the table.
Each muscle that needs to be contracted or released is usually done outside conscious control.
Every sport scientist who talks about the zone will tell you that the flow of peak performance occurs through subconscious effort.

Of course... This goes without saying, and I mentioned earlier if we wanted to we could drill down to basic motor functions to prove the roll the subconcious plays. However the discussion, or at least the one I'm still hoping to have revolves around how we aim and what we do on the concious level to increase perfomance.

I am curious how many sport scientists studied the zone and how it relates to pool. I'm not a scientist on any level, but I would equate aiming in pool more to chess than say sprinting or tennis. Granted hand/eye and motor functions are at a considerably higher level in pool (as compared to chess), but the decision making process on what we shoot and how we shoot it I think should live in the concious realm, at least for me.