Cue vibrates like a tuning fork.

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Have to ask this question.
Is it desirable to shoot with a cue that vibrates like a tuning fork.
Thinking not, I have installed rubber washers at select positions on the cue to deaden the vibrations.
Not only did the washers reduce the vibrations it also changed the sound of the tip hitting the cue ball.
The cue now feels like shooting with a cue off the wall.

Not trying to sound funny here just want to know from your experience what is desirable for play.

Personally, I don't mind the vibrations just don't want to start down the wrong path with a new cue.
This is the cue I bought and really like it.
Cynergy SVB GEN ONE Dakota Edition cue Black Starlight | Cuetec

Thanks
John
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Have to ask this question.
Is it desirable to shoot with a cue that vibrates like a tuning fork.
...
I assume you mean with the joint moving back and forth sideways like a violin string. That vibration doesn't really start until well after the cue ball has left the tip. The major effect is subjective in the shooter. If it bothers you, fix it or change cues.
 

One Pocket John

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No, not at all Bob.
What I mean, is when you hold the cue in your grip hand and slap it gently with your other hand the cue vibrates like a tuning fork. Also, the tip of the cue striking the cue ball sounds kind of tinny. Sorry for not being more clear with my post.

Thanks

John
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
No, not at all Bob.
What I mean, is when you hold the cue in your grip hand and slap it gently with your other hand the cue vibrates like a tuning fork. Also, the tip of the cue striking the cue ball sounds kind of tinny. Sorry for not being more clear with my post.

Thanks

John

Had a buddy who didn't like the sound of his cynergy shaft. He changed the tip and likes it now. Does it have the Sniper tip? (Gray with a black line and a red pad?) That's what his came with, I think.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
No, not at all Bob.
What I mean, is when you hold the cue in your grip hand and slap it gently with your other hand the cue vibrates like a tuning fork. Also, the tip of the cue striking the cue ball sounds kind of tinny. Sorry for not being more clear with my post.
I think that's actually the motion I was referring to. Typically the slapping is done to test for how much spine/stiffness the cue has. From high-speed videos, the frequency of the vibration is about 30 per second.

Some cue makers will scream at you if you test a cue that way in front of them. They feel it stresses the joint excessively.

Here is a high-speed video from Dr. Dave that shows the "shimmy" for an off-center hit:

Here is a Russian very-high-speed video that shows that the "shimmy" is more complicated than the simple "ringing" you get from slapping the joint.

The tinny is a different problem as Brian mentioned. I had a cue that sounded like breaking glass and sent chills up my spine. I had to change the tip twice to get it to go away. Maybe the tip had an air gap or maybe it was just too hard.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Oh boy John, you really hit home with that one. That tuning fork vibration thing used to drive me nuts and sent me on a journey of evolution that lasted 20 years. I started with a Palmer with a stainless steel joint with a long pro taper in the days of 14.1. I think that thing vibrated in B flat. It was brutal. I eventually discovered the flat-faced joint which helped a lot but there was still some vibration of certain shafts. Southwest cues came close to perfection but there was still a vibration. Then I tried a carom taper which got rid of the vibration but caused one hell of a cb squirt. The evolution for me ended at low-deflection shafts like Predator. I'm happy now.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Here is a Russian very-high-speed video that shows that the "shimmy" is more complicated than the simple "ringing" you get from slapping the joint.
Like two frequencies/wavelengths, one within the other. Cool.

Any relation to performance?

pj
chgo
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Like two frequencies/wavelengths, one within the other. Cool.

Any relation to performance?

pj
chgo
For vibrating objects the multiple frequencies are associated with "modes" of vibration. To me it looks like more than two are visible. I don't know of any physical change in performance but as Fran noted it can be very bothersome.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Have to ask this question.
Is it desirable to shoot with a cue that vibrates like a tuning fork.
Thinking not, I have installed rubber washers at select positions on the cue to deaden the vibrations.
Not only did the washers reduce the vibrations it also changed the sound of the tip hitting the cue ball.
The cue now feels like shooting with a cue off the wall.

Not trying to sound funny here just want to know from your experience what is desirable for play.

Personally, I don't mind the vibrations just don't want to start down the wrong path with a new cue.
This is the cue I bought and really like it.
Cynergy SVB GEN ONE Dakota Edition cue Black Starlight | Cuetec

Thanks
John
I like a stiff cue that gives a nice ping. This ping is often an indication of a perfectly hit ball with a good stroke. If you train yourself to listen for this perfect hit, you'll notice it much more often, even on soft hits. I'd imagine it's all personal preference, but I really love it and find it helps me get tuned in and focusing better. I know for some a ting/tonky sound drives them nuts, but a ting/tonk and the ping you get from a perfectly stroked shot are different. I'd equate it more to the sound of a wooden xylophone rather than a tuning fork. I also prefer a hard tip to make the noise more pronounced.
 
Before the 'new' fangled LD shafts a flexible shaft was a means of cutting done on the CB Deflection. Bob Meucci was probably the first or one or the first cue makers to extend the parallel taper well up toward the joint. That creates a vibrating shaft. Since I learned with conical taper house cues that were stiff, I hated the vibration.

Now as Ms. Crimi implied, one can get the Low Deflection with a more stiff shaft. Problem solved.
 

WilleeCue

The Barefoot Cuemaker
Silver Member
All cues have a natural resonance frequency. It is related to mass.
If it bothers you it is all in your head.
The cue ball is long gone when the cue starts to vibrate from a shot.
Try your hand slap with just the butt of the cue (no shaft) and you will hear its tone quite clearly.
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Before the 'new' fangled LD shafts a flexible shaft was a means of cutting done on the CB Deflection. Bob Meucci was probably the first or one or the first cue makers to extend the parallel taper well up toward the joint. That creates a vibrating shaft. Since I learned with conical taper house cues that were stiff, I hated the vibration.

Now as Ms. Crimi implied, one can get the Low Deflection with a more stiff shaft. Problem solved.

No it creates a Ducking low frequency cue, this moves the nodal points closer to the joint which makes each end of the cue undergo the highest amount of movement crests and troughs of the lateral wave and a slower longitudinal wave (compression) that propagates during impact.

Bob never spearheaded claims that straight Long pro taper was done and was intended to reduce Cue ball Squirt (what your calling deflection)

His taper was made for no reason and intention more than it felt more comfortable through the fingers especially for lower skilled players, and marketed that the parallel pro taper delivered the tip more accurately than a traditional taper that would make the tip rise its position as the shaft diameter increased. Even tho because a cue pivots in our grip and bridge any raise at the bridge sees an proportionate drop of the tip…..AFTER the ball is long gone a elbow drop and long follow through will have the tip raising in relation to the taper diameter growth.

Truth that it happens but a flat lie that it applies to accurate placement of the tip on the ball. It’s bullshit.

He used long ferrules that increased end mass, created higher CB squirt/deflection despite the shaft having a noodle for a spine as more flexibility is not the impetus of a low amount of squirt on cb.

The CB squirting out like a slippery bar of soap merely gave the illusion that more English and spin was being created. When because of the design more English was necessary to effectively combat the squirting cb, and resulting in more swerve occurring.

Same tip sizes same radius and speed and angle of acceleration and angle of velocity between any cue ever made…produces the same quantity of English and spin.

LD cues don’t jump and masse well because a low squirting CB makes it harder to attain high swerve. So instead of a masse being a gradual curve hooking, the cb will go sorta straight and then jerk off it to a new mostly straight vector….it becomes more a skid then rolls.

So now that we have those fables covered we can address the vibration.

It’s not the vibration you dislike it’s the large deformation of the cue overall….IT DUCKS AND CANT DO ANYTHING BUT DUCK. Thats how DPK would describe that.

Low deformation from nodes being close to around a 10” ish from the tip and buttcap make a tighter higher frequency and more resonate feel to the cue. It becomes more harmonious. It doesn’t Duck and fold in half during impact.

Bobs cues distinctly lack harmonics…harmonics do not just mean vibration to be clear .

Smaller tips and ferrules shafts were around long before fat 13s and ferrules as the standard we know. So technically LD existed first. Ivory and buckhorn ferrules came secondly, then black plastic then finally white plastic.



Class adjourned,
Greyghost


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greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
For vibrating objects the multiple frequencies are associated with "modes" of vibration. To me it looks like more than two are visible. I don't know of any physical change in performance but as Fran noted it can be very bothersome.

Higher the movement /deformation the less efficient and shorter/negligible/no sustain and suffer much energy wasted and lost


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3kushn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Higher the vibe/deformation the less efficient and more energy lost


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Trying to follow you on this and your longer post above.
When you say Higher Vibe are you talking higher pitch? I'm thinking not since in my mind a higher pitch would give Lower Deformation.
DD told me more than once he would "ring" his cues. He liked a longer duration. Was he.... well... just being Dennis in your opinion?

Several months ago I accidentally put on a Kamui Hard brown tip. Rather than just take it off I played with it and ended up liking it. Why? I liked the feel. The cue had more feedback/ring/whatever the word would be. Maybe it just brought me back to the old days feeling when my mentor kept me in Water Buffalo tips.

Oh and why are "Tone Woods" used?
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Trying to follow you on this and your longer post above.
When you say Higher Vibe are you talking higher pitch? I'm thinking not since in my mind a higher pitch would give Lower Deformation.
DD told me more than once he would "ring" his cues. He liked a longer duration. Was he.... well... just being Dennis in your opinion?

Several months ago I accidentally put on a Kamui Hard brown tip. Rather than just take it off I played with it and ended up liking it. Why? I liked the feel. The cue had more feedback/ring/whatever the word would be. Maybe it just brought me back to the old days feeling when my mentor kept me in Water Buffalo tips.

Oh and why are "Tone Woods" used?

No don’t mean higher pitch. I substituted movement for vibration could have been more clear in explanation there.

The rat fooker known as Dieck a mon Keep in mind had responsibilities not just including what we call “earth”. Having jurisdiction over 15 more....where he rode with the Golden Horde for almost 250 planetary revolutions as a sergeant major of many horsemen.

HIS WORDS RING WITH TRUTH

When he said the tone would ring with longer duration….the musical/sound term for that would be SUSTAIN.

Tone woods are used and named as such because they provide good tone and have a penchant for good sustain of such.

In the language spoken by David Kershenbrok
The cells of those tone woods don’t/minimally “DUCK” the impact.


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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
In the language spoken by David Kershenbrok
The cells of those tone woods don’t/minimally “DUCK” the impact.
Ed Young, who made my shafts for me many years ago, was Dave's shopmate then - maybe still is. From what I heard about Dave, I believe he might have had his own language (maybe two by now). :oops: :) Creativity and eccentricity are often found together.

pj
chgo
 
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3kushn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No don’t mean higher pitch. I substituted movement for vibration could have been more clear in explanation there.

The rat fooker known as Dieck a mon Keep in mind had responsibilities not just including what we call “earth”. Having jurisdiction over 15 more....where he rode with the Golden Horde for almost 250 planetary revolutions as a sergeant major of many horsemen.

HIS WORDS RING WITH TRUTH

When he said the tone would ring with longer duration….the musical/sound term for that would be SUSTAIN.

Tone woods are used and named as such because they provide good tone and have a penchant for good sustain of such.

In the language spoken by David Kershenbrok
The cells of those tone woods don’t/minimally “DUCK” the impact.


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Since I Don't Know Sh$* About Cues, I had to get clarification.
THX
tp

Oh and thanks for the memory!
 

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Since I Don't Know Sh$* About Cues, I had to get clarification.
THX
tp

Oh and thanks for the memory!

Your all too welcome, I figured you would get a sustained kick out of it.

Peace ooot and tool on my friend


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WilleeCue

The Barefoot Cuemaker
Silver Member
Anyone know the reason for the dot on Bob Meucci's cues?
Something to do with spline as I recall.
 
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