Are professionals supposed to call fouls on themselves?

[boogieman]

If I mess up, I need to "fess up" and pay the price for my mistake. Honestly not calling fouls would be disrespectful to the game. "Pool is a beautiful game played by ugly people." It really is for the good of your game (great statement!!!) and it's good to not be ugly if you can help it.

Last night while playing a friend, he left me in a really dicey situation on either a safe or a two way shot (still trying to figure that one out ). It was hard to do anything, I had to curve around a partial ball to get a 1 rail kick, no involved balls too far from the rail. I couldn't see daylight on any other routes. I ended up using a slow masse follow to cause the CB to deflect a bit before the spin grabbed. It was a touchy shot that required slow speed to get the CB to bite enough on the rail to get the kick. I chalked the hell out of my stick as it was well in the miscue zone. "Just focus on hitting it pure and keep the tip glued to the ball." I kicked it, got a legal hit and a ball actually found a pocket. The trouble was, I double hit the cue ball, something that might happen once every 2-3 months of heavy playtime. He didn't see it. He was congratulating me on the hit, I said "yeah it was pretty good but I double hit the cue ball." It stung a bit to sit down, but I did mess up, knowing what you did is half the battle. If you take responsibility for your error, you admit you made the error, which is the first step in correcting it and making your game more solid.

 

[ShootingArts]

If I mess up, I need to "fess up" and pay the price for my mistake. Honestly not calling fouls would be disrespectful to the game. "Pool is a beautiful game played by ugly people." It really is for the good of your game (great statement!!!) and it's good to not be ugly if you can help it.

Last night while playing a friend, he left me in a really dicey situation on either a safe or a two way shot (still trying to figure that one out ). It was hard to do anything, I had to curve around a partial ball to get a 1 rail kick, no involved balls too far from the rail. I couldn't see daylight on any other routes. I ended up using a slow masse follow to cause the CB to deflect a bit before the spin grabbed. It was a touchy shot that required slow speed to get the CB to bite enough on the rail to get the kick. I chalked the hell out of my stick as it was well in the miscue zone. "Just focus on hitting it pure and keep the tip glued to the ball." I kicked it, got a legal hit and a ball actually found a pocket. The trouble was, I double hit the cue ball, something that might happen once every 2-3 months of heavy playtime. He didn't see it. He was congratulating me on the hit, I said "yeah it was pretty good but I double hit the cue ball." It stung a bit to sit down, but I did mess up, knowing what you did is half the battle. If you take responsibility for your error, you admit you made the error, which is the first step in correcting it and making your game more solid.

A man 'fesses up. Good for you! One thing about CF, either I double hit a lot more or more likely I feel double hits a lot more.

Hu

 

[DynoDan]

A man 'fesses up. Good for you! One thing about CF, either I double hit a lot more or more likely I feel double hits a lot more.

Hu

When confronted with a shot where a ‘double hit’ is likely, I generally look for an alternative shot (while the rules may specify the allowable distance between OB & CB, no one ever pulls out a ruler). It saves friction between your opponent AND your consience.

 

[KissedOut]

Only the honest ethical ones.

 

[maha]

i call them on myself against other players that will do the same. against those that i know wont, i wont either.

and if you believe in karma and its real then you must believe in ghosts and hokus pokus. and who knows what else.

 

[Bob Jewett]

When confronted with a shot where a ‘double hit’ is likely, I generally look for an alternative shot (while the rules may specify the allowable distance between OB & CB, no one ever pulls out a ruler). It saves friction between your opponent AND your conscious.

An alternative to this is to shoot the shot and immediately call a foul on yourself if one happens. This lets you figure out where your opponent is on the shot and sets a precedent. It's best to do this when the shot is not critical so you're ready for when it is.

 

[hotelyorba]

i call them on myself against other players that will do the same. against those that i know wont, i wont either.

and if you believe in karma and its real then you must believe in ghosts and hokus pokus. and who knows what else.

And what about an opponent you're playing against for the first time ever? You can't know if he'll call his fouls (supposing he hasn't made any yet). What would you do then?

You don't have to believe in karma to want to play the game in a sportsman like fashion.

As an aside, I don't think I often have a problem with opponents not calling their fouls. And when they don't call their fouls, I don't believe that one moment in the whole match ever determines the outcome of the match. I do often have a problem with opponents behaving unsportsmanlike in another fashion, namely 'sharking'.

 

[boogieman]

And what about an opponent you're playing against for the first time ever? You can't know if he'll call his fouls (supposing he hasn't made any yet). What would you do then?

You don't have to believe in karma to want to play the game in a sportsman like fashion.

As an aside, I don't think I often have a problem with opponents not calling their fouls. And when they don't call their fouls, I don't believe that one moment in the whole match ever determines the outcome of the match. I do often have a problem with opponents behaving unsportsmanlike in another fashion, namely 'sharking'.

If I catch them deliberately not calling a foul, it's bad for them, that stuff gets me into monster mode. They might consider giving up pool if I'm on and they get me going like this. I hope they know how to kick because they aren't seeing an easy shot anymore! Now if only I could turn on monster mode without having to rely on a shady opponent...

 

[KissedOut]

i call them on myself against other players that will do the same. against those that i know wont, i wont either.

and if you believe in karma and its real then you must believe in ghosts and hokus pokus. and who knows what else.

Personally, if someone is being dishonest I think it is better to just stop playing with them than to compromise my own honesty.

 

[DynoDan]

When confronted with a shot where a ‘double hit’ is likely, I generally look for an alternative shot (while the rules may specify the allowable distance between OB & CB, no one ever pulls out a ruler). It saves friction between your opponent AND your consience.

Problem is, too many players are just confused/ignorant when it comes to ‘double-hits’. Too many league/tournament rules allow legal ‘close’ shots by merely jacking up 45 degrees. I can’t assume someone who takes that shot and continues to shoot is necessarily ‘dishonest’. I would rather play the game correctly and accept the disadvantage, than go through the hassle/argument of ‘re-education’.

 

[smoooothstroke]

I agree Jason is the type that would call it on himself if he was aware. I have even seen pros override the ref when a foul was incorrectly called on his opponent.

Some will not call a foul on themselves in a refereed match and I cannot say this is wrong. One factor is that the sitting player should be paying attention.

 

[3kushn]

This is the correct answer, assuming the ref is assigned to that single table. I remember Earl not calling a very blatant foul on himself pointing out it wasn't his job. I also remember a match with Keith, I think Efren was the other player. Bad call, the ref called a foul on the other player and picked up the cue ball. At this point about all Keith could do was say "I don't think so but I'll take it!" Like most pro's he has had enough bad calls go his way and against him to not let it get in his head. Most of us would subconsciously want to even things up, that karma thing.

One of my progressions was when I recognized that sometimes bad calls would cost you, sometimes you would gain by them. Your job to recognize it balances out over time and ignore the mental affects. I try to let bad calls inspire me to tighten down another notch and play better to reduce the chance of future bad calls. Other than that, like a mistake on my part, got to put it behind me and move on.

Hu

Black-Balled said: If a ref is assigned to the table neither participant should have input on the matter.

Ya, I don't know if there's a Rule that Players should keep their mouth shut when there's a referee. Kinda doubt it.

Some fouls, like the one mentioned aren't seen by anyone, at the time. We have the luxury of replay and slo mo.

IMO, All players should find their seat when they know they fouled.
That's likely not a rule either. How do I know, as a Referee, he knows he fouled?

If you know you fouled .... Take a Seat.

 

[pt109]

i call them on myself against other players that will do the same. against those that i know wont, i wont either.

Situational ethics aren’t really ethics...someone or something is determining your morals.

 

[maha]

your morals will change with the situation. and that is for everyone.

 

[The_JV]

Yes pros should call fouls on themselves. If they want to stop pretending to be a professional and actually be one, well this is 'professional ethics' 101.

That said, everyone should call fouls on themselves. The view from my moral high ground built on years of honesty is fantasic. Come join me...

 

[ShootingArts]

Situational ethics aren’t really ethics...someone or something is determining your morals.

your morals will change with the situation. and that is for everyone.

I played one way for years, strictly by the rules regardless of what my opponent did. Then I went with the "when in Rome" theory for probably three or four years. If I saw my opponent commit obvious fouls and never call them I would do the same, although admittedly with much less obvious fouls. I would also teach sharkers some new things about sharking! I didn't particularly enjoy not calling my fouls, sharking on the other hand I thought was great fun! None of it bothered me enough I didn't sleep just fine. I still played purely a gentleman's game with gentlemen, and the occasional lady.

I made a living playing pool including paying mortgages on two properties for months at a time here and there when things got too lean in the oil patch. It wasn't nearly as much fun playing pool when I knew I had to meet a daily, weekly, and monthly nut. Fortunately I didn't have any hostages to fortune at the time. I couldn't help overhearing a road player on the phone when he made his nightly check-in call to speak to his wife and two children. He told his wife where he was at and that things were fine. He didn't mention he was busted over a thousand miles from home!

My ethics didn't change according to my finances, something that was very tempting at times. Of course it was fairly easy to stay within my ethics which were much more old testament than new. I sometimes ran into some pretty outrageous cheaters who would move balls slightly to tie them up when I wasn't looking, unaware I had the table well mapped in my mind. People that would cheat to that extent were in for some no holds barred games on the table. I generally left pretty quickly, people that would cheat to that extent were wasting time complaining I quit while ahead. I quit before trouble started because one way or another things were gonna get ugly. I usually claimed I would be back in a couple hours if necessary to smooth a departure.

Hu

 

[DynoDan]

A bit off-topic, but I recall reading about a road player who’s secret to success was his incredibly likable personality (a new twist re: hustling). By ingratiating himself beforehand with everyone in the room, few low-lifes then had the nerve to start trouble.

 

[ShootingArts]

A bit off-topic, but I recall reading about a road player who’s secret to success was his incredibly likable personality (a new twist re: hustling). By ingratiating himself beforehand with everyone in the room, few low-lifes then had the nerve to start trouble.

Scotty Townsend usually was a STAR prowling around the smaller events and gambling matches he played in. He was more than welcome to stay or come back anytime.

Not on that level but after a couple years of leading a parade to my vehicle as often as not I learned to smooth out my act. I was never a star, not my personality, but I was usually welcome back anytime. Silly to make enemies everywhere you go. I did sit with my back to the wall for many years but it was more habit than need.

It paid to leave people thinking you were a good guy and that they could have won had things went just a little differently.

Hu

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...everyone should call fouls on themselves. The view from my moral high ground built on years of honesty is fantasic. Come join me...

I always do, but not entirely on principle - I do it because if I happen to win some day I don't want it to be with an asterisk.

pj
chgo

 

[Fatboy]

I’m far from being a pro, but I’ve always called fouls on myself. Even if I don’t like who I’m playing or it’s gonna cost me $-that’s ok. I always call them on myself without exception.

Edit: even if I lied to get into a soft game, I can’t lie about a foul. Funny how that works……