Process/Results

L

lastdimetaker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
my performance in battle is a reflection of how I train.
I work very hard on the practice table, no one has ever suggested that I need to work harder..
best advice I received was from randy, he said practice should not be a form of punishment. This is when I stopped dreading practice and began craving it. I worked even harder because I got pleasure from the repetition and consumed the feedback with an addiction.
Fast forward several years about 5 im a stronger player and I'm stuck. I need to do more or do something different except I can't create more time in my life. So I fall for the be more productive at the practice table trap. Work smarter not harder hustle. This year I have tried to do so much bull shit that it has become torture and I'm going through withdrawals without the feedback.
Form follows function and I need to trust that I am doing what I need to do in training based on what I see when I'm in competition.
training is the process and my performance in competition is the results.. results is pure feedback.
I must have a direct connection between the process and the results so I keep a notebook and record my training and document the results.
I have certain drills and shots that produce positive results.
these drills are very basic and repetitious. This leads to the desire for something new and opens me up to a false belief of mastery.
I've spent last 2 months with other people in my head and I am now lost.
I have no training process and get no feedback from competition other than score. My practice is chaotic form of this and that and to a certain extent not even practice.
I'm going back to what works, I'm going back to the process so I can reconnect with the feedback.
I do this I get that.
I've decided the word results needs to be replaced with the word feedback. I hear people say be process minded not result oriented.
I say be feedback minded and because I believe form follows function the process naturally becomes more productive.
I am going back to my training.
There is no easy path no short cuts you can suffer from the effort required to get better or you can find pleasure in the effort.
Hike your own hike...
 
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lastdimetaker said:
my performance in battle is a reflection of how I train.
I work very hard on the practice table, no one has ever suggested that I need to work harder..
best advice I received was from randy, he said practice should not be a form of punishment. This is when I stopped dreading practice and began craving it. I worked even harder because I got pleasure from the repetition and consumed the feedback with an addiction.
Fast forward several years about 5 im a stronger player and I'm stuck. I need to do more or do something different except I can't create more time in my life. So I fall for the be more productive at the practice table trap. Work smarter not harder hustle. This year I have tried to do so much bull shit that it has become torture and I'm going through withdrawals without the feedback.
Form follows function and I need to trust that I am doing what I need to do in training based on what I see when I'm in competition.
training is the process and my performance in competition is the results.. results is pure feedback.
I must have a direct connection between the process and the results so I keep a notebook and record my training and document the results.
I have certain drills and shots that produce positive results.
these drills are very basic and repetitious. This leads to the desire for something new and opens me up to a false belief of mastery.
I've spent last 2 months with other people in my head and I am now lost.
I have no training process and get no feedback from competition other than score. My practice is chaotic form of this and that and to a certain extent not even practice.
I'm going back to what works, I'm going back to the process so I can reconnect with the feedback.
I do this I get that.
I've decided the word results needs to be replaced with the word feedback. I hear people say be process minded not result oriented.
I say be feedback minded and because I believe form follows function the process naturally becomes more productive.
I am going back to my training.
There is no easy path no short cuts you can suffer from the effort required to get better or you can find pleasure in the effort.
Hike your own hike...
Fuck your negative comments in advance...
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How many screen names do you have here on AZB? :sleep:
 
couldnthinkof01 said:
Video your sessions(game and practice) when you can. It helps me criticize my game
in a more honest way and find what is lacking.
I wish you well.
Click to expand...

Good point. Had a friend tell me I raise up on a certain shots every now and then. I thanked him for the constructive criticism, but thought to myself....bullshit, I don't raise up. Lol

So after recording and watching 30 minutes of hitting balls, about 100 shots, I discovered that I was intermittently raising up on certain shots. Usually it was a simple shot, and I halfassed it, rushed through it, taking the shot for granted.

The raising up didn't always cause a miss, but it was a bad habit, a wrinkle of inconsistency that needed ironed out.
 
BC21 said:
Good point. Had a friend tell me I raise up on a certain shots every now and then. I thanked him for the constructive criticism, but thought to myself....bullshit, I don't raise up. Lol

So after recording and watching 30 minutes of hitting balls, about 100 shots, I discovered that I was intermittently raising up on certain shots. Usually it was a simple shot, and I halfassed it, rushed through it, taking the shot for granted.

The raising up didn't always cause a miss, but it was a bad habit, a wrinkle of inconsistency that needed ironed out.
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You are not alone.
I would have those shots and the ones where you get funny position but just get down and shoot anyways, ugh.
Like a fresh batch of jiffy pop.
So many things you don't think are happening
are revealed. Humbling to say the least.
 
I don't know what kind of level you are on, playing wise. So maybe this applies to you and maybe it doesn't. I'm in the mid 600 fargo area myself. Not great, but ok. Haven't been able to train for a long time, can only train maybe once a week now. My focus is on maintaining some semblance of a stroke.

Many people fall into the trap of expecting professional results from their playing. Professional results require a lot of dedication and talent. Measuring yourself against others risk getting severely discouraged. In my area I have a snooker pro, former Eurotour contenders and all sorts of talented people. I'm not going to beat them and even coming close would require many, many hours a day of focused practise. Measuring outcomes against these people would probably say very little about any progress I'm making as it would be too dependent on coincidence. Maybe I got some good layouts and managed losing only 5-8 against a good player. The next time he might beat me 8-0. Does that make me a much worse player that day, compared to earlier? Probably not, as a single bad roll could easily cost me 3-4 games and the other time we played he maybe got some bad rolls. Even counting run-outs, position errors, kicking percentage and break success will not tell you much, unless it's over long periods of time. You need a lot of data to form any sort of conclusion and most people are too singularly focused on what happened the last time they played.

Working hard on the table can mean many things. Ok, you may put a lot of effort in, but are you maximizing your efficiency? Are you practising the shots that will win you games, like jump shots, banks and kicks? Are you working on the single most important shot in rotation games and 8 ball, the break, for the amount of time that is required (which is a lot)? Are you taking notes on your weaknesses and working on them, as opposed to drills, where 98% of the shots are easy? These are not criticisms, you may be a lot better than me, for all I know, but they are important questions for you to be asking yourself, if you haven't allready. You mentioned this kind of thinking as a "trap". I disagree. I think a lot of people, even those who work hard on their game, work on the wrong things. I know I've done that myself. They practise things they are allready good at, because it makes them feel good. That's the "feedback" they crave. Beating an average player may give you the same kind of feedback. But did you really improve?
 
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Straightpool_99 said:
I don't know what kind of level you are on, playing wise. So maybe this applies to you and maybe it doesn't. I'm in the mid 600 fargo area myself. Not great, but ok. Haven't been able to train for a long time, can only train maybe once a week now. My focus is on maintaining some semblance of a stroke.

Many people fall into the trap of expecting professional results from their playing. Professional results require a lot of dedication and talent. Measuring yourself against others risk getting severely discouraged. In my area I have a snooker pro, former Eurotour contenders and all sorts of talented people. I'm not going to beat them and even coming close would require many, many hours a day of focused practise. Measuring outcomes against these people would probably say very little about any progress I'm making as it would be too dependent on coincidence. Maybe I got some good layouts and managed losing only 5-8 against a good player. The next time he might beat me 8-0. Does that make me a much worse player that day, compared to earlier? Probably not, as a single bad roll could easily cost me 3-4 games and the other time we played he maybe got some bad rolls. Even counting run-outs, position errors, kicking percentage and break success will not tell you much, unless it's over long periods of time. You need a lot of data to form any sort of conclusion and most people are too singularly focused on what happened the last time they played.

Working hard on the table can mean many things. Ok, you may put a lot of effort in, but are you maximizing your efficiency? Are you practising the shots that will win you games, like jump shots, banks and kicks? Are you working on the single most important shot in rotation games and 8 ball, the break, for the amount of time that is required (which is a lot)? Are you taking notes on your weaknesses and working on them, as opposed to drills, where 98% of the shots are easy? These are not criticisms, you may be a lot better than me, for all I know, but they are important questions for you to be asking yourself, if you haven't allready. You mentioned this kind of thinking as a "trap". I disagree. I think a lot of people, even those who work hard on their game, work on the wrong things. I know I've done that myself. They practise things they are allready good at, because it makes them feel good. That's the "feedback" they crave. Beating an average player may give you the same kind of feedback. But did you really improve?
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Good post. And mid 600's is actually a damn good player, at least in my area, capable of running 3 packs in 8ball or 9ball quite often. Any player near 600 or higher is considered a very good player, considering that the average fargo score is around 450 to 480.
 
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It is said that improvement feels like a sequence of long plateaus followed by apparent leaps of progress.

If you aren't content to carry on along the plateaus, you get frustrated and this interferes with your progress.

On the other hand, if you're genuinely not improving, that would feel like a plateau too. But if you're genuinely practicing things that stretch your abilities, you're probably doing alright.
 
Here's what my instructor told me...The great Willie mosconi would only shoot 20 practice shots at a time. Then he would take a break, stretch, get something to drink. His reasoning was the human mind can only fully concentrate 100% for that length of time. After a short break of 10 minutes or so, he could come back to the table and concentrate one hundred percent on what he was trying to do for another 20 shots. He would do this procedure over and over again.
 
buckshotshoey said:
Here's what my instructor told me...The great Willie mosconi would only shoot 20 practice shots at a time. Then he would take a break, stretch, get something to drink. His reasoning was the human mind can only fully concentrate 100% for that length of time. After a short break of 10 minutes or so, he could come back to the table and concentrate one hundred percent on what he was trying to do for another 20 shots. He would do this procedure over and over again.
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That’s pretty much what Mark Wilson says as well. I think he says practice sessions should be in 15 min increments, with breaks in between.
 
Lawnboy77 said:
That’s pretty much what Mark Wilson says as well. I think he says practice sessions should be in 15 min increments, with breaks in between.
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Niels Feijens YouTube channel has some of his practice sessions on there uncut. He tends to do his routines in 20 minute increments. Sometimes a bit longer. Though he takes mini breaks on the hour and not in between. Those uncut sessions are a great resource to see how a champion approaches practice.
 
Cameron Smith said:
Niels Feijens YouTube channel has some of his practice sessions on there uncut. He tends to do his routines in 20 minute increments. Sometimes a bit longer. Though he takes mini breaks on the hour and not in between. Those uncut sessions are a great resource to see how a champion approaches practice.
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Yep! He, and a few others, on my subscription list.
 
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