Mike Webb: Revo radial does not fit question

[iusedtoberich]

(Ps I tried to PM Mike directly but he has PM's turned off, hopefully he will see, or if anyone else has experience feel free to reply)

I just ordered a 30" Revo radial thread shaft to try. I have a radial thread Mike Webb cue about 15 years old. The shaft does not screw in far enough to reach the butt joint collar. There is a 0.125" gap. Is this an issue with the shaft or the butt? Is Mike's pin protrusion longer than most radial cues? Or did the Revo shaft not get threaded deep enough? Will I have the same problem if I order a radial pin butt from elsewhere? I just bought the shaft today, and if the shaft is the issue, I will return it.

I do have radial taps and held it agains the pin to verify it was a uni-loc radial, and not one of the knockoffs. To my eye the pitch matches exactly.

I don't have another radial thread butt to compare.

Thanks for any comments. Specs and pics below.


Pin protrusion: 1.274"
Shaft hole depth: 1.412"
Shaft thread depth: unable to measure.

 

[pip9ball]

The pin length looks fine to me. I would say the shaft wasn't threaded deep enough.



Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[kling&allen]

How tight is the shaft when you are screwing it in?

 

[iusedtoberich]

How tight is the shaft when you are screwing it in?

It's snug. Tighter than the original shaft, but not so tight it feels wrong. When it gets about a turn from the furthest it can screw on, it gets really tight.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Hand tap the hole .
The hole should be at least 2" deep.
Uniloc recommends 2.3" deep. https://uni-loc.com/install/Radial_Pin_Installation.pdf
That's an old radial with a short pilot . 2" should be plenty .
There are two kinds of radial taps . One is tighter( labeled undersized ) . They should not use that on Revo b/c it has an insert .
The tighter one is for wood .

 

[iusedtoberich]

Hand tap the hole .
The hole should be at least 2" deep.
Uniloc recommends 2.3" deep. https://uni-loc.com/install/Radial_Pin_Installation.pdf
That's an old radial with a short pilot . 2" should be plenty .
There are two kinds of radial taps . One is tighter( labeled undersized ) . They should not use that on Revo b/c it has an insert .
The tighter one is for wood .

I have both taps. The hole in the shaft is 1.4" deep. The undersized tap screws in completely freely, and it bottoms out on the bottom of the hole without cutting anything. The pilot of the tap is in the unthreaded region of the hole.

I see the radial installation drawing, and the shaft is clearly wrong to that. However, maybe predator thread mill the shafts instead of using a tap? In that case, the hole would not need to be as deep.

Can anyone tell me with certainty if the 1.274 pin protrusion on the butt is typical, or longer than normal. I'm not modifying the shaft if the shaft is bad, I will send it back.

I'm 0 for 2 on the revo. The first one I ordered last week and the butt was not concentric to the shaft. I ordered both butt and shaft from Predator, and they were the uni-loc quick release joint. I returned it right away, and ordered just the shaft this time to fit a radial butt I had. Now this one doesn't fit.

 

[JoeyInCali]

I have both taps. The hole in the shaft is 1.4" deep. The undersized tap screws in completely freely, and it bottoms out on the bottom of the hole without cutting anything. The pilot of the tap is in the unthreaded region of the hole.

I see the radial installation drawing, and the shaft is clearly wrong to that. However, maybe predator thread mill the shafts instead of using a tap? In that case, the hole would not need to be as deep.

Can anyone tell me with certainty if the 1.274 pin protrusion on the butt is typical, or longer than normal. I'm not modifying the shaft if the shaft is bad, I will send it back.

I'm 0 for 2 on the revo. The first one I ordered last week and the butt was not concentric to the shaft. I ordered both butt and shaft from Predator, and they were the uni-loc quick release joint. I returned it right away, and ordered just the shaft this time to fit a radial butt I had. Now this one doesn't fit.

You can't live thread radial threads.
1.275" is on the short side of radial screws.
That's like the usual 3/8 10 modified or 3/8 11.

If you look at the tap, you can clearly see the firs full thread is way past the pilot .
Predator need to get their act together . They need to setup a drill with a stopper so the holes are never too shallow .
Same with the tap .

 

[Sheldon]

Newer pins have just over an inch of threads. The shaft is not "bad", it just needs tapped about another turn and a half. Unless you have a bottoming tap, you might need the hole just a bit deeper too.

 

[Michael Webb]

It's actually a more common situation than you think on all cues with the radial and 3/8x10 too. Some of the carbon fiber shaft inserts are tight. I have 3 taps for the radial, I know, they only offer 2. I got one special that was plated. I also have two bottoming radial taps.
Haha
but sometimes the insert fit is so tight, I have to use the 5/16 reamer and run the full size tap in.

 

[Michael Webb]

I have both taps. The hole in the shaft is 1.4" deep. The undersized tap screws in completely freely, and it bottoms out on the bottom of the hole without cutting anything. The pilot of the tap is in the unthreaded region of the hole.

I see the radial installation drawing, and the shaft is clearly wrong to that. However, maybe predator thread mill the shafts instead of using a tap? In that case, the hole would not need to be as deep.

Can anyone tell me with certainty if the 1.274 pin protrusion on the butt is typical, or longer than normal. I'm not modifying the shaft if the shaft is bad, I will send it back.

I'm 0 for 2 on the revo. The first one I ordered last week and the butt was not concentric to the shaft. I ordered both butt and shaft from Predator, and they were the uni-loc quick release joint. I returned it right away, and ordered just the shaft this time to fit a radial butt I had. Now this one doesn't fit.

Back then, it's an old cue. The length of the pin was normal for me. Today I have the joint screw stick out less. That length was overkill.

 

[Michael Webb]

Hand tap the hole .
The hole should be at least 2" deep.
Uniloc recommends 2.3" deep. https://uni-loc.com/install/Radial_Pin_Installation.pdf
That's an old radial with a short pilot . 2" should be plenty .
There are two kinds of radial taps . One is tighter( labeled undersized ) . They should not use that on Revo b/c it has an insert .
The tighter one is for wood .

Thus the reason for my bottoming taps. I would never drill a hole that deep today.

 

[iusedtoberich]

You can't live thread radial threads.
1.275" is on the short side of radial screws.
That's like the usual 3/8 10 modified or 3/8 11.

If you look at the tap, you can clearly see the firs full thread is way past the pilot .
Predator need to get their act together . They need to setup a drill with a stopper so the holes are never too shallow .
Same with the tap .

Off topic but why do you say you can't thread mill an internal radial thread?

 

[iusedtoberich]

Thanks all. I did local cue repair years ago for a few years, that's why I have all the equipment still. But my Hightower lathe has been in pieces since I moved from PA to GA 10 years ago, I haven't turned it on once. I'm not in a position to modify the shaft at this time even though I have the taps. I also don't want to cut off the end of a tap with a cutoff wheel to make it a bottoming tap. I do recall those taps were quite expense when I bought them it must be 15 or more years ago now. I'll probably return the shaft and order another complete cue. Its so funny I had about 5 cues and none of them would work with the Revo. I want a 30" one, and they only come in unliloc and radial. Life goes on

 

[GoldCrown]

Does a spacer seem too Mickey Mouse. Can you fabricated something. Get that Hightower set up.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Does a spacer seem too Mickey Mouse. Can you fabricated something. Get that Hightower set up.

I have so many projects I want to make. And then I end up wasting my free time watching people on YouTube make stuff.

just yesterday I sketched up a CNC taper machine idea I was daydreaming about the day before.

actually the spacer is not a bad idea. I can use mic 6 jig plate and make it on my CNC mill. I have 5 lathes but none are setup where I live now. Ha ha.

I’m just gunshy because the first predator revo I ordered was not concentric. If I make a spacer for this one, I won’t be able to tell if it is. Then when I get a butt that fits it would be too late to return. My ultimate goal is a 30” butt and a 30” shaft. That’s my setup now made with a partial 314-2 and I love it. But almost none of the current butts look aesthetically good with a Revo, imo. The joint is all wrong with the rings. It doesn’t balance visually.

 

[GoldCrown]

I have 5 lathes but none are setup where I live now. Ha ha.

A lathe is a terrible thing to waste

 

[Michael Webb]

History of the uni loc radial.
First ones I used were threaded all the way. No shank.
Then the alignment barrel was added.
Then the short bull nose was made longer. I'm guessing for the guys that have thier names laser engraved.
NOW THE FUNNY PART.
Lmfao
Raial joint screw taps.
When I bought mine, they were 39 or 45 each. Then went to 90 or 95
NOW.....
They are 175.00 each.
HOLY SHEEP SHIT BATMAN!
Take care of your tools!!!!!

 

[RickLafayette]

I have a similar problem with a predator butt and radial pin. The pin was changed from Uniloc Quick to Uniloc Radial. All my radial shafts fit flush (Revo, Z3, 314) but the Predator JP doesn't. I have several Predator Radial JP's and none fit flush. (?) I think the installer (won't say who) needed to seat the pin a little deeper. It's not a major factor for me unless I decide to sell it, then I'm going to need to have it corrected either by having it reseated (heat might hurt the ebony) or by having the tip turned down a bit.

 

[Michael Webb]

I have a similar problem with a predator butt and radial pin. The pin was changed from Uniloc Quick to Uniloc Radial. All my radial shafts fit flush (Revo, Z3, 314) but the Predator JP doesn't. I have several Predator Radial JP's and none fit flush. (?) I think the installer (won't say who) needed to seat the pin a little deeper. It's not a major factor for me unless I decide to sell it, then I'm going to need to have it corrected either by having it reseated (heat might hurt the ebony) or by having the tip turned down a bit.

View attachment 612498
View attachment 612499
View attachment 612500

The problem is the lead on the tap. If you don't want to invest in another tap and cut the lead off. Convert a joint screw to a tap and cut the front pilot off so it bottoms.
Mr. Scruggs and Mr. Cochran disagreed with the long pilot in the joint screw and started cutting them down. Very simple to do.

 

[JoeyInCali]

The problem is the lead on the tap. If you don't want to invest in another tap and cut the lead off. Convert a joint screw to a tap and cut the front pilot off so it bottoms.
Mr. Scruggs and Mr. Cochran disagreed with the long pilot in the joint screw and started cutting them down. Very simple to do.

Problem with radial screws is they can create new threads. Cutting the pilot increases that chance .
It's just not a great screw anymore.