Some days on, some days off . . . .

[FranCrimi]

Being in a rhythm is similar to a dance, like the Whirling Dervishes.

The overall dance is the performance…it is made up of a variety of things…some slower and some faster…some smooth and some flashier.

It is the mind dictating the tempo and choreography from the unconscious and having the body act it out.

Great description. That's why finding and falling into your rhythm as quickly as possible during a match will give you optimal results. Also, a player's rhythm can start to break down if they start to hesitate or become nervous and start second-guessing themselves. When that happens, focusing on getting back into rhythm will set things right again. Finding my rhythm when I've started to fail during an important match has saved me many times from falling into an abyss.

 

[FranCrimi]

If my response was received as disrespectful, my bad.
No confrontation was intended.
Your explanation was clear and I felt I understood your perspective.
Your version of rhythm closely parallels what I call flow.
Rhythm involves an ebb and flow when applied to movement, rather than music.
As I stated a bias towards the musical analogy exists in my version.
Language is description, usually of personal experiences.
Our individual histories differ and shared understanding, the intent of the communication, may not exist, so we try to make sense within our own limited world.
I swung and missed, strike one.

You bet it was disrespectful. Are you even an instructor? This is the ask the instructor forum. If you want to correct me, then make it a relevant correction --- not some arbitrary post that serves only yourself. If you're trying to say that you don't approve of my use of the word 'rhythm' then say it up front and quit pussy-footing around by sneaking in a different definition for your own benefit.

 

[Dan White]

You bet it was disrespectful. Are you even an instructor? This is the ask the instructor forum. If you want to correct me, then make it a relevant correction --- not some arbitrary post that serves only yourself. If you're trying to say that you don't approve of my use of the word 'rhythm' then say it up front and quit pussy-footing around by sneaking in a different definition for your own benefit.

I think the problem is that Wikipedia is not set up for discussing pool. You can't cut and paste something that is not there.

 

[Dan White]

Great description. That's why finding and falling into your rhythm as quickly as possible during a match will give you optimal results. Also, a player's rhythm can start to break down if they start to hesitate or become nervous and start second-guessing themselves. When that happens, focusing on getting back into rhythm will set things right again. Finding my rhythm when I've started to fail during an important match has saved me many times from falling into an abyss.

I've never really understood the talk about rhythm although I think I do practice it. I am guessing that if you are playing comfortably then you are probably in rhythm. I don't recall which pool book it was that said the following, but I thought it was interesting. Pleasures of Small Motions maybe? Anyway what it said is that everything at the pool table should be done in increments of a certain time measure. Let's say increments of 10 seconds. If you are in rhythm you will do everything at let's say 10 second intervals. For instance, Line up the next shot at 0, grab the chalk at 10 or 20 seconds, get down on the shot at 30, execute the shot at 40, and so on. It has been a long time since I read that so I may not have it quite right, but is this kind of thing you are talking about?

 

[Imac007]

You bet it was disrespectful. Are you even an instructor? This is the ask the instructor forum. If you want to correct me, then make it a relevant correction --- not some arbitrary post that serves only yourself. If you're trying to say that you don't approve of my use of the word 'rhythm' then say it up front and quit pussy-footing around by sneaking in a different definition for your own benefit.

There was no intent to correct.
I think we each might experience a situation differently due to which sense is dominant in the consciousness description.
I don’t apologize for my sensory experience being different as a result of my past history, leading to an understanding difference.
There was no judgement on my part, I just noted mine was different and acknowledged that yours fit better when looking at physical movement, since this is not a musical context.
I respect your posts here.
The intent of my post was different than how you interpreted it and when my communication fails to arrive at a shared understanding, I own that.
I loved your point about rhythm being such a key element, and liked accordingly.
Some interpretations of the word involve an exactly timed repetitive process.
I just wanted to point out that it isn’t like the rhythm timing of a metronome.

 

[FranCrimi]

I've never really understood the talk about rhythm although I think I do practice it. I am guessing that if you are playing comfortably then you are probably in rhythm. I don't recall which pool book it was that said the following, but I thought it was interesting. Pleasures of Small Motions maybe? Anyway what it said is that everything at the pool table should be done in increments of a certain time measure. Let's say increments of 10 seconds. If you are in rhythm you will do everything at let's say 10 second intervals. For instance, Line up the next shot at 0, grab the chalk at 10 or 20 seconds, get down on the shot at 30, execute the shot at 40, and so on. It has been a long time since I read that so I may not have it quite right, but is this kind of thing you are talking about?

The intervals vary, depending on what the player is facing. But the key is that they will react pretty much the same way each time they face something similar. If suddenly they're taking a lot longer to make a decision than they did 20 minutes before in a similar situation, they may be in trouble. Another example is if they suddenly start moving and shooting faster than normal. That's a warning sign as well. But usually, slowing down is the big warning signal that the player is starting to second guess himself or herself. That's when it's important for the player to find their rhythm again or they will start to spiral downwards into the abyss of insecurity.

 

[FranCrimi]

There was no intent to correct.
I think we each might experience a situation differently due to which sense is dominant in the consciousness description.
I don’t apologize for my sensory experience being different as a result of my past history, leading to an understanding difference.
There was no judgement on my part, I just noted mine was different and acknowledged that yours fit better when looking at physical movement, since this is not a musical context.
I respect your posts here.
The intent of my post was different than how you interpreted it and when my communication fails to arrive at a shared understanding, I own that.
I loved your point about rhythm being such a key element, and liked accordingly.
Some interpretations of the word involve an exactly timed repetitive process.
I just wanted to point out that it isn’t like the rhythm timing of a metronome.

I don't understand why you keep using music as your excuse. I'm a musician too. I started music school at 7 years old and was a music major in college. If you can't see rhythm in the way a player moves around the table, then I don't know what kind of musician you are.

 

[evergruven]

I think there are polyrhythms happening here
in this thread, in pool, in life
conflicts are natural- in fact, they're appreciated
without conflict, we can't have resolution
fine music, some would say the *only* music
has both

 

[Pin]

OP sounds a lot like I used to be: Overthinking (in the form of constant conscious assessment), background concern about outcome creating a mildly anxious disposition. All of which subtly gets in the way of performance.

I got a lot better after I stepped off that carousel.

Unfortunately, heaping advice upon advice, more and more new things to try, might make the problem worse, not better.

And I'm not an instructor. (But I might have been through what OP is talking about.)

I'll leave it to OP to say whether he wants my 2c.

 

[FranCrimi]

OP sounds a lot like I used to be: Overthinking (in the form of constant conscious assessment), background concern about outcome creating a mildly anxious disposition. All of which subtly gets in the way of performance.

I got a lot better after I stepped off that carousel.

Unfortunately, heaping advice upon advice, more and more new things to try, might make the problem worse, not better.

And I'm not an instructor. (But I might have been through what OP is talking about.)

I'll leave it to OP to say whether he wants my 2c.

Good point, and it's pretty much the same for everyone working on their game. I went through it too, and what I finally settled on was making notes of my errors after a match and then taking it to the practice table. It worked much better for me when I was fixing specific errors rather than constant awareness of approach, stance, stroke, etc.

 

[dquarasr]

Good point, and it's pretty much the same for everyone working on their game. I went through it too, and what I finally settled on was making notes of my errors after a match and then taking it to the practice table. It worked much better for me when I was fixing specific errors rather than constant awareness of approach, stance, stroke, etc.

Pin, I am open to all suggestions. I can cull through it all and decide which works for me as I seem to have discovered pool technique is not one-size-fits-all.

Fran, good suggestion.

I tried for a few days being completely “see it, walk to the shot, get down, shoot it” and invariably I consistently missed CB left. After analyzing a bit, I noticed my right foot was a few inches too far right. So I did pay attention to my right foot placement, methodically, ensuring my toes were on the shot line, and almost like magic, the MOAD shots started going pocket dead center. So a small concession to methodical during alignment, then a more free-flowing shot execution has been a pretty good approach for me at this stage of my development.

I know that as I progress something else will come up. But for now I’m on a happy path.

Thanks all for your input. Keep it coming!

 

[Ratta]

At the Thread-Opener:
"Thinking body- Dancing mind"

Still a "must read"- not *pool only*- imo one of he best books i ve ever read.

 

[Fatboy]

Walk the walk
Talk the talk
Dance the dance
Play pool fool<——terry stoners slogan at his room the jointed cue.

I just made up the first 3 lines.

Best
Fatboy

 

[Ratta]

Rythm is something, which is so underrated- and imo from my expirience also something which haven t been reached by an extremley big amount of players. Of course everyone "trying" to emulate at the very beginning someone. But you have to find YOUR own rythm- what works for you. If you re not able to find your rythm, you ll have a problem with "just letting things go". Then the famous "Zone" will be unreachable.

 

[Pin]

Pin, I am open to all suggestions. I can cull through it all and decide which works for me as I seem to have discovered pool technique is not one-size-fits-all.

Okay, I'll run you through how I used to play and what I did about it.

So the way I played the game in the old days, nothing felt 'wrong', there was no obvious cause of problems in my performance, and it's only with hindsight that I can diagnose it. After all, if you feel how you normally feel, by definition that's your normal.

My natural disposition is very analytical, thinking about things consciously, and quite goal-oriented. In pool, this became background low-level anxiety about the outcome of each shot (not strong enough to *feel* like a problem at the time) and conscious thinking about various parts of the process of shooting.

My results were very inconsistent. When I'd get into stroke I could play really well, but other times I'd struggle to string many balls together.
Interestingly, I'd play much better in places I was familiar with, which I now attribute to feeling more comfortable.

From your original post, the inconsistency, your analytical disposition, and the concern with results and parts of the shooting process resonated with me.

Advice about relaxing and playing naturally are good, but don't necessarily give you the tools to make that psychological change. Also, there is a place for conscious analysis of what you're doing. But that isn't the same place as where you're trying to perform. I think the place for conscious analysis is in working out the technique you want, and then remembering to do it while you make it a habit- ideally not for too long.

I've read a lot about sports psychology. The majority of it didn't result in dramatic improvements, but did lay the groundwork.

What worked for me was a combination of the following:
- The objective of playing by instinct
- An attention tool modified from one of the Inner Game books

Having an objective of playing by instinct is the decision to let my subconscious do the aiming etc. So I don't deliberately get in my own way with conscious thought.

The attention tool directs my conscious thought to something helpful instead. I focus on the swing of the cue, and marking the exact moments it reaches the end of each forward swing and backswing, in my practice strokes and actual stroke. You might say 'bah' as the cue reaches each point. (Tim Gallwey described a similar tennis exercise called 'Back-Hit', which students used to go crazy over, but potentially at the cost of ignoring the wider 'Inner Game' approach.)

I also make a point of relaxing before playing, and for me, when I'm between shots, briefly recalling the feel and weight of a ball in my hand warms up the feel-based part of the brain that plays my best pool. When you activate part of the brain, it stays active for a little while, even when your conscious mind moves on to something else.

When I'm getting into my stance, I'm trying to hang my cueing arm from my elbow, so that it feels relaxed and loose. You said you play better when your arm feels loose and something like this might help you. As well as the mechanical advantage of a relaxed arm that can swing freely, tuning your brain in to your body's feedback, and bringing in the physical and mental patterns of times you've played well, are great things to do.

Also, having a plan for how I'll handle playing badly or excessive conscious thought while playing is a big help.
The plan is that when I find myself in conscious thought, I'll accept that my mental game isn't perfect, and so far as is possible, let the conscious thought go and tune in to my awareness tools.
When I'm playing badly, I again accept it, and proceed with my gameplan (playing by instinct, using the awareness tools) and see if my play improves. (The rational basis is that my objective is to produce the best standard of pool I can, and see what results follow (which is all that's within my control), and I know what to do to produce my best play, so I follow the plan.)

Honestly, working through a bad patch and letting my play come good again, in a long match, feels more rewarding than just playing well all the way through!

That's pretty much all I've got for you. I'm not an exceptional player, but I'd consider myself a very good one, and I can do things on the table, consistently, that impress myself, which is a happy position to be in. If the new me played the old me, I'd give the old me nightmares.

 

[dquarasr]

Okay, I'll run you through how I used to play and what I did about it.

So the way I played the game in the old days, nothing felt 'wrong', there was no obvious cause of problems in my performance, and it's only with hindsight that I can diagnose it. After all, if you feel how you normally feel, by definition that's your normal.

My natural disposition is very analytical, thinking about things consciously, and quite goal-oriented. In pool, this became background low-level anxiety about the outcome of each shot (not strong enough to *feel* like a problem at the time) and conscious thinking about various parts of the process of shooting.

My results were very inconsistent. When I'd get into stroke I could play really well, but other times I'd struggle to string many balls together.
Interestingly, I'd play much better in places I was familiar with, which I now attribute to feeling more comfortable.

From your original post, the inconsistency, your analytical disposition, and the concern with results and parts of the shooting process resonated with me.

Advice about relaxing and playing naturally are good, but don't necessarily give you the tools to make that psychological change. Also, there is a place for conscious analysis of what you're doing. But that isn't the same place as where you're trying to perform. I think the place for conscious analysis is in working out the technique you want, and then remembering to do it while you make it a habit- ideally not for too long.

I've read a lot about sports psychology. The majority of it didn't result in dramatic improvements, but did lay the groundwork.

What worked for me was a combination of the following:
- The objective of playing by instinct
- An attention tool modified from one of the Inner Game books

Having an objective of playing by instinct is the decision to let my subconscious do the aiming etc. So I don't deliberately get in my own way with conscious thought.

The attention tool directs my conscious thought to something helpful instead. I focus on the swing of the cue, and marking the exact moments it reaches the end of each forward swing and backswing, in my practice strokes and actual stroke. You might say 'bah' as the cue reaches each point. (Tim Gallwey described a similar tennis exercise called 'Back-Hit', which students used to go crazy over, but potentially at the cost of ignoring the wider 'Inner Game' approach.)

I also make a point of relaxing before playing, and for me, when I'm between shots, briefly recalling the feel and weight of a ball in my hand warms up the feel-based part of the brain that plays my best pool. When you activate part of the brain, it stays active for a little while, even when your conscious mind moves on to something else.

When I'm getting into my stance, I'm trying to hang my cueing arm from my elbow, so that it feels relaxed and loose. You said you play better when your arm feels loose and something like this might help you. As well as the mechanical advantage of a relaxed arm that can swing freely, tuning your brain in to your body's feedback, and bringing in the physical and mental patterns of times you've played well, are great things to do.

Also, having a plan for how I'll handle playing badly or excessive conscious thought while playing is a big help.
The plan is that when I find myself in conscious thought, I'll accept that my mental game isn't perfect, and so far as is possible, let the conscious thought go and tune in to my awareness tools.
When I'm playing badly, I again accept it, and proceed with my gameplan (playing by instinct, using the awareness tools) and see if my play improves. (The rational basis is that my objective is to produce the best standard of pool I can, and see what results follow (which is all that's within my control), and I know what to do to produce my best play, so I follow the plan.)

Honestly, working through a bad patch and letting my play come good again, in a long match, feels more rewarding than just playing well all the way through!

That's pretty much all I've got for you. I'm not an exceptional player, but I'd consider myself a very good one, and I can do things on the table, consistently, that impress myself, which is a happy position to be in. If the new me played the old me, I'd give the old me nightmares.

Thanks for the very thoughtful and personal response. Still digesting it. I’ll apply what you are conveying over the next few weeks and see where it takes me.

 

[cutnedge]

I always loved the section about RHYTHM in the late, great George Fels book "Mastering pool". In his first two sentences, I quote: " Eyesight is the first prerequisite of the game of pool. But rhythm comes second, and few players realize how close of a second it runs" It's a very interesting section, and book to those who have not had the fortune to have read it....