Another One Bites The Dust…………But This Time It’s A Long Standing Pool Room.

Patrick Johnson said:
There's also the cost of building out and equipping the space. A friend of mine owns three pool halls in Chicago - he rented the first space and bought the next two buildings. The cost of renting is about the same as owning, but all in all it's better business to own the real estate - for long term gain, current balance sheet improvement, and, maybe most importantly, for having complete control.

My friend was fortunate to find two perfectly-sized buildings in good locations to buy for his owned pool halls - avoiding being in the landlord business too.

pj
chgo
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You are right, owning is better. You are in control. It's hard to find a building for something like a pool room though. You need a free-standing building and in many cities the parking requirements alone are what sink you.

You can never find a building that has enough parking. The parking requirements for something like a retail store a very different than they are for like a restaurant or a bar or a pool room.

I looked at a building one time that was ideal and that particular city required three parking spaces per table. They had actually designed a parking requirement that made it impossible to open a pool room. The same building when it was a furniture store required five parking spaces. I would have needed 60.
 
garczar said:
A lot of these big rooms opened during the post-COM pool boom. There are some that are still alive and well and almost are in non-lockdown states. The states like Cali with their ridiculous policies and nutjob governor have fared the worst. Big rooms in Texas, Iowa, Ks., Mo., and Ok. are still open and doing pretty well. Its still tough to run a big spot these days with rent/ins./food/bev costs going thru the roof.
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Well said
 
middleofnowhere said:
You are right, owning is better. You are in control. It's hard to find a building for something like a pool room though. You need a free-standing building and in many cities the parking requirements alone are what sink you.

You can never find a building that has enough parking. The parking requirements for something like a retail store a very different than they are for like a restaurant or a bar or a pool room.
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Yep, parking is a problem - my friend had to negotiate shared parking rights in neighboring lots to get the permits he needed for his owned rooms. That's usually less of a problem with rented space (fewer permit requirements). And it's not just a bureaucratic problem - parking is necessary for business too, especially in a big city.

middleofnowhere said:
I looked at a building one time that was ideal and that particular city required three parking spaces per table. They had actually designed a parking requirement that made it impossible to open a pool room. The same building when it was a furniture store required five parking spaces. I would have needed 60.
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Sounds like they expect trouble in River City... it starts with T and that rhymes with P and that stands for... well, you get my drift.

pj
chgo
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
Yep, parking is a problem - my friend had to negotiate shared parking rights in neighboring lots to get the permits he needed for his owned rooms. That's usually less of a problem with rented space (fewer permit requirements). And it's not just a bureaucratic problem - parking is necessary for business too, especially in a big city.


Sounds like they expect trouble in River City... it starts with T and that rhymes with P and that stands for... well, you get my drift.

pj
chgo
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I thought about trying to get a varience. My lawyer talked me out of it, not that I would have gotten one anyway. Basically, why be where you are not wanted. They can make your life miserable. Kind of like condo living.
 
middleofnowhere said:
Not sure what you mean but a city can make life horrible. I have had problems with code guys before. I was once threatened with $100.00 a day fines because I didn't have proper numbers on my building.
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Fun of bing in business, cities, counties, state, and federal government are your business partners. When no investment in your biz.

Good reason to not have business.
 
Here in my neck of the woods it seems the new model for semi serious pool players is private rooms with 3-4 tables with invitation only events.

No commercial property type of worries.

Small private gatherings without involving the local government.

I feel this may be the future of pool for the more serious than casual players.
 
easy-e said:
I've seen lots of books, I even read one once! I also happen to know management and ownership. Nice work, detective.
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Well a pool room, or pool bar looks likes a gold mine, when you get the real story of ownership, you find out truth that is is now a gold mine, no better then working as Wal-Mart greeter.

Ox Bar in Phoenix was busy, hosted Tournaments with good number of player, looked like a gold mine?

Closed, and locked up. Never say you there, in good old days.🙄
 
JC said:
Here in my neck of the woods it seems the new model for semi serious pool players is private rooms with 3-4 tables with invitation only events.

No commercial property type of worries.

Small private gatherings without involving the local government.

I feel this may be the future of pool for the more serious than casual players.
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Hope you local city do figure out your private Club, they will want some fees for some reason?

That is what city’s do, a fee for this, s fee for that, 💵
 
pool is doomed if it goes to small places with just fun players meeting to hit balls around. there is no long term future for those kind of places.
many bars have a table or more for the fun players to hit balls around for kicks. most times the table is empty.
 
maha said:
pool is doomed if it goes to small places with just fun players meeting to hit balls around. there is no long term future for those kind of places.
many bars have a table or more for the fun players to hit balls around for kicks. most times the table is empty.
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But the flip side of coin is cost of operation big room Is sky high. List all expense, and it is eye opener.🤥

Largest place in Valley is a dirty hell hole, could it be no money to keep up?

Could it be outgo, I’d equally to income.

That is a hobby business.
 
maha said:
pool is doomed if it goes to small places with just fun players meeting to hit balls around. there is no long term future for those kind of places.
many bars have a table or more for the fun players to hit balls around for kicks. most times the table is empty.
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Just like the old saying "Everything that's old is New again", pool rooms could in fact make a comeback. I read people on here all the time talking about driving for an hour or two to go play in a real pool room with big tables. There must be some amount of demand for this. All it really takes is the right formula.

What matters in the end is the bottom line. I don't like to mention Archer's place but I have to. The first thing that jumps out to me is the fact that it's a partnership. So right off the top no matter what you're only in for half. Whatever the place turns out to be capable of producing you're a 50% partner.

Those gambling machines those are a partnership as well they're in partners with the vendor. The coin op tables I don't really know they may be a vendor also. The place is too big, it's overhead no matter how you look at it with a number of employees it'll take the run that place is probably going to be more staggering then they actually anticipated in the beginning.

No matter how you look at it, there's only so many profitable hours in a given day week or month. You have to squeeze whatever money you're going to make out of those hours. It's not like you're in the manufacturing business, the amount of money that can be produced by a business like Archer's place is governed, it's finite.

So back to my original comment about bottom line. It's highly conceivable that Johnny Archer could have opened himself a 15 table pool room with a small sit-down service bar and some food service. A place that could be run by just a couple of employees at any given time and a manageable overhead and when all is said and done he makes more money then he may end up making with his giant potential headache with partners.

I don't at all think the small mom and pop run pool room is dead. In fact they are still alive and well all over the country if you look around.

You can take almost any business and you'll find some that survives some do very well and some fail. I don't care if you've decided you want to own a charter fishing boat, a bed and breakfast, or a corner coffee shop it's all doable with the right formula.
 
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My homeroom is struggling and the owner is never there. I told one of the employees that they should run a Friday night tournament or create some kind of list like a private Facebook Group where people could post that they are looking for someone to play against. The person thought I was crazy to give them more work to do. Turns out that I only go there 1 day a week to play now instead of at least 3 days per week I used to do just to support them by playing and buying food. I have my own table at home so it's their loss.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
But the flip side of coin is cost of operation big room Is sky high. List all expense, and it is eye opener.🤥

Largest place in Valley is a dirty hell hole, could it be no money to keep up?

Could it be outgo, I’d equally to income.

That is a hobby business.
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Are Main Street, Bullshooter's and Kolby's all still open?
 
VVP said:
My homeroom is struggling and the owner is never there. I told one of the employees that they should run a Friday night tournament or create some kind of list like a private Facebook Group where people could post that they are looking for someone to play against. The person thought I was crazy to give them more work to do. Turns out that I only go there 1 day a week to play now instead of at least 3 days per week I used to do just to support them by playing and buying food. I have my own table at home so it's their loss.
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People who do not look after business, and own it I’d not smart.

It’s very heard to find honest employee who do not steal you blind if your not there.

If you business is most cash, there are so many way for a employee to steal from you.

Bars are alway loosing money in over pouring, people who do not know how to pour a draft beer.

Then you got bartender who give friends free drinks, etc.
 
garczar said:
Are Main Street, Bullshooter's and Kolby's all still open?
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Understand Main Street in Mass is still there, friend brother plays there frequently.

Kolby in Tempe by ASU, is I believe is still open, Jimmy sold it to Chinese Exchange Student, who I understand returned home, selling it to third owner.

BullShooters on 35th., and Peoria is still open I understand.

All those place are way east of me, so I seldom go that Far East.

Mike Howerton use to have ads in his old Newspaper, but that is no longer published.

When the paper was published all three places had monthly ads.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Understand Main Street in Mass is still there, friend brother plays there frequently.

Kolby in Tempe by ASU, is I believe is still open, Jimmy sold it to Chinese Exchange Student, who I understand returned home, selling it to third owner.

BullShooters on 35th., and Peoria is still open I understand.

All those place are way east of me, so I seldom go that Far East.

Mike Howerton use to have ads in his old Newspaper, but that is no longer published.

When the paper was published all three places had monthly ads.
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What other real rooms are out there? Thought those three were it.
 
garczar said:
What other real rooms are out there? Thought those three were it.
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Do not know any more, been years since I went out to play a Saturday or Sunday Tournment.

Clicks is closed, Golden 8 Ball Closed, Uncle Charlie’s Closed, lots of the Bars with more then 4 Bar Boxes closed, or went in different directions.

Seem like many of Mikes papers advertisers went under.
 
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