skill level re: equipment

[FranCrimi]

Sounds like it's mostly speed-related, alright...


If there's one thing we know about pool, it's that physics doesn't explain everything that affects a player's performance - and how the cue feels to the player can be an important factor in the equation.

pj
chgo

Yes, but then what's left? Psychological? If it's not psychological, then it must be physical.

One other item during the 14.1 yrs was the cue ball.
Almost every pool room used Brunswick Centennials ball sets.

The Centennial sets had the Blue circle cue ball standard.
In the 70's when 9 ball became the game of choice, the red circle/Belguim? cue ball came into play, a little lighter than the obj. balls.
This cue ball created a new dimension for the good players, when on the wrong side of the ball.
They now had the ability to utilize DRAW to get back into position when off angle, when the heavier blue circle cue ball (same weight as the obj. balls) would NOT allow this cueball/object ball reaction/movement.
I remember when Bob Osborne/aka Black Bart visited Grady Matthews pool room in Colorado Springs in the early 70's and offered em a game on the wire in a race to 11 in 9 ball.
Grady ''gurgled'' with his banter/laughter/smile and did not ''bite''.

I remember that era. It changed the game for decades. I think it was the early 80's when Allen Hopkins showed up at the Eastern States tournament at Sy and Dolly's in New London, Ct, with a red circle cue ball. Allen was the president of whatever the men's organization was at that time. He said it was a better cue ball. But the truth was that it was a sponsorship deal.

The men and eventually the women, started carrying their own red circles and that was the beginning of end of matched sets. It would stay that way for a couple of decades. It was maddening, actually. I couldn't understand how anyone would want that. I spoke out against it, but it was futile. The decision had been made. Then came the imitation red and blue circles. They were so bad that the circles actually wore off the balls. More madness. I have to say that our sport does have a fair amount of dumb decisions along the way.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

If it's not psychological, then it must be physical.

Yes, and vice verse - the tricky part is knowing which is which. I'm pretty sure cue balance is on the psychological side.

pj
chgo

 

[Island Drive]

Yes, and vice verse - the tricky part is knowing which is which. I'm pretty sure cue balance is on the psychological side.

pj
chgo

I can just see Judd Trumps snooker coach saying....I'm pretty sure it's the right shot.

If you've ever hit balls with a ''fat butt'' Willie Hoppe cue of the 60's, I think the handle was nearly 1.75 inches in diameter.
And I'm sure, no top pros in the 60's EVER used this cue to win the US Open.

One thing is ''for sure'' in the game of pool, the cue ball NEVER lies.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

One thing is ''for sure'' in the game of pool, the cue ball NEVER lies.

But what's it saying? Is it saying your cue's balance caused you to miss, or is it saying your discomfort with your cue's balance caused you to miss?

I can't think of a physical reason why the balance itself (not your discomfort with it) should be the culprit. Can you?

pj
chgo

 

[FranCrimi]

But what's it saying? Is it saying your cue's balance caused you to miss, or is it saying your discomfort with your cue's balance caused you to miss?

I can't think of a physical reason why the balance itself (not your discomfort with it) should be the culprit. Can you?

pj
chgo

Here's why I think weight distribution would affect a player. The back of the cue is where the player is gripping the cue and controlling the movement of the cue. I know this is true for me and I've seen it with other players I've worked with. If you add a little weight to the back end, sometimes it helps keep the player's arm from deviating slightly during the arm swing. It also helps keeps the speed consistent. But it's harder to control the speed for finesse shots.

So is it simply a matter of the overall weight of the cue rather than distribution? I'm sure overall wieight is a factor, but I think distribution can physically influence performance as well. The effect on the player's arm swing seems to be more dramatic when the change is on the back end.

 

[BC21]

Just speaking for myself, and I guess full disclosure -- I know more about playing with different tennis racquets than different cues. I think the "new racquet" syndrome is probably universal across various sports. Maybe it has to do with playing more relaxed because you're not expecting much while playing with an unfamiliar racquet or cue. I think that takes time to wear off. Maybe a couple of days but certainly after couple of weeks you should know if it is a permanent improvement.

Yep...same thing happens with pool cues. It's that good ol placebo effect. A player gets a new cue and plays great for a while because he believes the new cue will make him better. Then reality comes crashing back in and the player finds himself making all the same mistakes he used to make with his old cue.

Changing to a revo or other carbon fiber shaft, however, can actually provide real improvement when it comes to consistency. I've witnessed this with several players. Basically, if the player's missed shots are typically due to poor or inconsistent aiming adjustments when accounting for spin/english, a cf shaft can really make a difference. The only other option would be more table time, because that's traditionally how we develop a good sense of adjusting for spin.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

If you add a little weight to the back end, sometimes it helps keep the player's arm from deviating slightly during the arm swing.

Yes, that's one reason players add extensions at the butt. I didn't mention it because I don't associate it with "balance" (maybe I should).

It also helps keeps the speed consistent. But it's harder to control the speed for finesse shots.

I see this as a function of overall weight rather than "balance".

I know... picky, picky!

pj
chgo

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Some Pool player, are like some Golfers. Think the next great Cue, or Club will fix all problems.

This is imho not true.

 

[FranCrimi]

Yes, that's one reason players add extensions at the butt. I didn't mention it because I don't associate it with "balance" (maybe I should).


I see this as a function of overall weight rather than "balance".

I know... picky, picky!

pj
chgo

Hey, you could be right but it's all speculation at this point without proof, even on your end. But yes, I was referring to a shifting of balance when additional back weight is added or removed.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I was referring to a shifting of balance when additional back weight is added or removed.

Of course the balance shifts with any change in weight (unless evenly distributed or right at the balance point) - but the resulting effect isn't necessarily because of the balance change; it might be the overall weight change.

A distinction that probably doesn't matter to anybody else...

pj
chgo

 

[evergruven]

So is it simply a matter of the overall weight of the cue rather than distribution? I'm sure overall wieight is a factor, but I think distribution can physically influence performance as well. The effect on the player's arm swing seems to be more dramatic when the change is on the back end.

Of course the balance shifts with any change in weight (unless evenly distributed or right at the balance point) - but the resulting effect isn't necessarily because of the balance change; it might be the overall weight change.

speaking for myself
my arm is short and can't grip the buttcap like a lot of players
and I think I've had to grip the cue further back than I like, because of that backwards-leaning bp
I say this to say that I think without being real conscious of it, the way I delivered the cue was affected by the cue's balance
so instead of me guiding the cue, the cue was guiding me, and I wasn't able to take full advantage of my instinct
my arms have been further apart than I like, because I don't want to use a super-long bridge
that's a physical consequence of having a less-than-ideal balance on the cue

 

[bbb]

speaking for myself
my arm is short and can't grip the buttcap like a lot of players
and I think I've had to grip the cue further back than I like, because of that backwards-leaning bp
I say this to say that I think without being real conscious of it, the way I delivered the cue was affected by the cue's balance
so instead of me guiding the cue, the cue was guiding me, and I wasn't able to take full advantage of my instinct
my arms have been further apart than I like, because I don't want to use a super-long bridge
that's a physical consequence of having a less-than-ideal balance on the cue

The distance from where the V on your bridge hand is to where your forearm is perpendicular to the floor is a fixed distance
it has nothing to do with the length of the Q or balance of the Q
you should not be gripping the buttcap on most shots /most players dont
jmho
i am not an instructor

 

[evergruven]

The distance from where the V on your bridge hand is to where your forearm is perpendicular to the floor is a fixed distance
it has nothing to do with the length of the Q or balance of the Q
you should not be gripping the buttcap on most shots /most players dont
jmho
i am not an instructor

hey larry
I'm talking about the distance between my bridge, and where my grip hand lives
that distance is fixed, but also somewhat flexible- which I think is the point
I actually don't know if it's my arm(s) length, or just the way I want to hold them on the cue
but the net result is the same-
"holding the buttcap" is a way to say that I can't keep so much weight in front of my grip hand
so, if that weight lives behind my grip hand, then I physically have to deal with that-
that's the cue balance

 

[bbb]

hey larry
I'm talking about the distance between my bridge, and where my grip hand lives
that distance is fixed, but also somewhat flexible- which I think is the point
I actually don't know if it's my arm(s) length, or just the way I want to hold them on the cue
but the net result is the same-
"holding the buttcap" is a way to say that I can't keep so much weight in front of my grip hand
so, if that weight lives behind my grip hand, then I physically have to deal with that-
that's the cue balance

sean
i am confused
you say you like the forward balance of your cue but then you say above
I can't keep so much weight in front of my grip hand

 

[evergruven]

sean
i am confused
you say you like the forward balance of your cue but then you say above
I can't keep so much weight in front of my grip hand

right..I could see where that would be confusing
I mean that literally, I can't keep the weight in front
I want to, but I can't, because of what I said above
hope that makes more sense

 

[bbb]

i am still confused but as long as it is helping you thats great...

 

[garczar]

right..I could see where that would be confusing
I mean that literally, I can't keep the weight in front
I want to, but I can't, because of what I said above
hope that makes more sense

You posts would make more sense if you used common punctuation. I'm assuming you post from a phone but still your posts often make little to no sense. Just sayin.

 

[evergruven]

i am still confused but as long as it is helping you thats great...

thanks larry. gonna try again since you made the effort to reach out
historically, I think there's been too much weight behind both my grip, and bridge hands
I could move my hands to compensate, and I have before, but I don't like to
so, I've put more weight forward in front of the joint, to make it more comfortable for me
it's of a bootleg way of doing things- having a custom made to spec would be better
but I like it so far- I'm learning, and it's helping me focus more on the actual pool

 

[evergruven]

You posts would make more sense if you used common punctuation. I'm assuming you post from a phone but still your posts often make little to no sense. Just sayin.

it takes two to tango, but I hear you. I think subject matter has to do with it..I'm still feeling my way through this pool stuff, so thanks for bearing with me

 

[bbb]

thanks larry. gonna try again since you made the effort to reach out
historically, I think there's been too much weight behind both my grip, and bridge hands
I could move my hands to compensate, and I have before, but I don't like to
so, I've put more weight forward in front of the joint, to make it more comfortable for me
it's of a bootleg way of doing things- having a custom made to spec would be better
but I like it so far- I'm learning, and it's helping me focus more on the actual pool

that is a better explanation
if its working for you
great