Need a Ruling on Is this Unsportsmanlike Conduct during BCA Rules 8-Ball Game

docgpmiller

docgpmiller

Active member
A group of us were playing 8-Ball at our Club. We use BCA Rules while playing 8-Ball Called Ball and Pocket. A shooter states that he is going to hit the 8 Ball First into his Object Ball AND he isn't going to call a Pocket because he just wants to give the Guy Cue Ball In Hand and hope the guy can't run it out. (Note: he has 1 object ball and the 8-Ball for an out). The opponent has 4 balls on the Table. We stated to him Yes it is Cue Ball in Hand after the Shot - But some at the Club state that it should be Unsportsmanlike Conduct because he refused to call the POCKET. Also some feel because he deliberately shot at the 8-Ball first into his object Ball it should be Unsportsmanlike Conduct. First is it Unsportsmanlike Conduct and for what reason and second what should the reprimand be if it is. Verbal Warning, Lost of Rack, etc.
 
docgpmiller said:
A group of us were playing 8-Ball at our Club. We use BCA Rules while playing 8-Ball Called Ball and Pocket. A shooter states that he is going to hit the 8 Ball First into his Object Ball AND he isn't going to call a Pocket because he just wants to give the Guy Cue Ball In Hand and hope the guy can't run it out. (Note: he has 1 object ball and the 8-Ball for an out). The opponent has 4 balls on the Table. We stated to him Yes it is Cue Ball in Hand after the Shot - But some at the Club state that it should be Unsportsmanlike Conduct because he refused to call the POCKET. Also some feel because he deliberately shot at the 8-Ball first into his object Ball it should be Unsportsmanlike Conduct. First is it Unsportsmanlike Conduct and for what reason and second what should the reprimand be if it is. Verbal Warning, Lost of Rack, etc.
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When you say he hit the 8-ball first do you mean with the cue ball or directly with his cue tip? The former is just a ball-in-hand foul, the latter is loss of game for unsportsmanlike. Unless you clarify this, you won’t have a definitive answer to your question.
 
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Unsportsmanlike conduct would be picking up your opponent's balls and lining them all up against the rail and then saying "you get ball in hand." Hitting a legal shot, even if it's the wrong ball or you don't call a pocket, is not unsportsmanlike conduct in my opinion.
 
Hitting a cue ball into the wrong ball to make a safe. Foul, ball in hand.

Hitting an object ball to make a safe. Unsportsmanlike conduct. Loss of game.
 
One point the opponent stated that he wanted to know which pocket he was aiming for... The Shooter refused to give him an answer. Would that really matter? Or if the answer is no pocket. Just trying to frame this the way the questions came up. What should the Shooter state in this instance of the call shot.

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We called in Cue Ball in Hand. We just had others thinking that it should be more than that. Just trying to get some additional advice what to look for in the future.

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docgpmiller said:
One point the opponent stated that he wanted to know which pocket he was aiming for... The Shooter refused to give him an answer. Would that really matter? Or if the answer is no pocket. Just trying to frame this the way the questions came up. What should the Shooter state in this instance of the call shot.

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Safety.
 
docgpmiller said:
A group of us were playing 8-Ball at our Club. We use BCA Rules while playing 8-Ball Called Ball and Pocket. A shooter states that he is going to hit the 8 Ball First into his Object Ball AND he isn't going to call a Pocket because he just wants to give the Guy Cue Ball In Hand and hope the guy can't run it out. (Note: he has 1 object ball and the 8-Ball for an out). The opponent has 4 balls on the Table. We stated to him Yes it is Cue Ball in Hand after the Shot - But some at the Club state that it should be Unsportsmanlike Conduct because he refused to call the POCKET. Also some feel because he deliberately shot at the 8-Ball first into his object Ball it should be Unsportsmanlike Conduct. First is it Unsportsmanlike Conduct and for what reason and second what should the reprimand be if it is. Verbal Warning, Lost of Rack, etc.
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Justin, Jaime, is that you?
 
We often call safety and deliberately give up ball in hand to tie up or pot a hanger of the opponent's ball. or call safety and pot our own ball but we know there is no shot after so safety them and get ball in hand. Pot one ball, call saftey, get bjh repeat. People might consider it cheap, but it wins the match. I wouldn't recommend doing it every game ..

Bca allows these strategies. We encourage people to think about how they can stay at the table even if it means bih for your opponent.
 
docgpmiller said:
A group of us were playing 8-Ball at our Club. We use BCA Rules while playing 8-Ball Called Ball and Pocket. ...
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I assume you mean BCAPL rules, which are the rules used by the BCA Pool League. There is a separate organization called the BCA which uses the World Standardized Rules and has no league players.

The BCAPL/CSI rules are available for free online. It would be good if at least one person in your group had read them. I think you will find a lot of surprises in there. Just knowing the rules won't show you standard strategies, though. It could take you a while to figure out that "safety" is a perfectly valid call under those rules and a reasonable way to play and in no way cheating.
 
docgpmiller said:
One point the opponent stated that he wanted to know which pocket he was aiming for... The Shooter refused to give him an answer. Would that really matter? Or if the answer is no pocket. Just trying to frame this the way the questions came up. What should the Shooter state in this instance of the call shot.

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Don't see how calling a pocket matters at all in this situation, in fact the player does not need to say anything at all. Soon as he hits the 8 ball before his ball it's a foul and anything that happens after that is moot. If he called the ball or not. Also if you are calling a safe, in most rules you can still pocket a ball in 8 ball and just give up your turn. Which again does not require a pocket to be called.

Playing a deliberate safe is perfectly fine as long as you are still within the game rules, meaning not grabbing the balls with your hands, smacking things around the table with the cue, etc..
 
Bob Jewett said:
I assume you mean BCAPL rules, which are the rules used by the BCA Pool League. There is a separate organization called the BCA which uses the World Standardized Rules and has no league players.

The BCAPL/CSI rules are available for free online. It would be good if at least one person in your group had read them. I think you will find a lot of surprises in there. Just knowing the rules won't show you standard strategies, though. It could take you a while to figure out that "safety" is a perfectly valid call under those rules and a reasonable way to play and in no way cheating.
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Just for Clarity - I was asked about this two (2) days after the fact. I stated it was Cue Ball In Hand. We have the Billiards 2021-22 BCA Book right by the Pool Tables. The Call about the Shot was Ball in Hand. Which two days later I said the same thing. About a dozen other Members of the Club tried to argue that it was a little more than Cue Ball in Hand. I didn't find anything different in the Book. I thought I would get some expert advice, as I was only able to get this Club to start going by BCA Rules during a slow transition of Home Spun Rules and Bars rules and anything else someone could throw into the Mix during the last year and a half.

The Not (Refusing) Calling a Pocket or Calling Safety became the contention. I will let everyone know at the Club today what was ultimately decided. They thought it was NOT proper or Sporting to Not say what you were doing (Not Gentlemanly). Thanks for all your input. Any additional comments are welcome.
 
I did downloaded Official Rules CueSports International Used by BCAPL and USAPL Book.

It was interesting to note on Page 5 and 6 about Sportsmanship and Pockets must be called and it is stated there are no exceptions under any circumstances. Attached are the photos of the pages that I am referring to in this comment. So what are the consequences of this as I think I may know but I don't want to assume anything right now. Looking for your input about it. Just for reference to also note that we do have a copy of the other book on Billiards from the BCA
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