You know I was thinking the same thing. LOL.
A joint pin is a joint pin and has only one job.
UNI-LOC joint - the real story
- Thread starter pfd studios
- Start date
A joint pin is a joint pin and has only one job.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
For all the talk of some cues being better than others, quantifiable differences don't seem to be welcome.
What does this mean?
Do you think the style of pin makes much difference?
I'm not trying argue the point,just get your opinion.
FIRST - The text you have quoted involves the RADIAL pin - NOT the UNI-LOC . . . I do know since I had the "original" Radial pin cue that Bill assembled using the FIRST version of the Radial pin (which incidentally was smaller in diameter and threaded into barium/copper metal inserts in the shafts) that Paul sent to Bill, in my hands on multiple occasions. Yes, the second (current variation) Radial pin, which threads directly into the wood in the shaft, was created in response to Bill's request/suggestion. The UNI -LOC 'system' is an entirely different proposition and again Paul and his shop foreman Gary are the only names on that Patent.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
I know that the screw in the cue is there to hold two pieces together tightly. Excess friction in the thread reduces how much force is on the faces, which reduces their ability to pull the cue straight.
On that, if the pin is tight, then it becomes a defacto alignment device, which is a very basic misuse of a threaded member.
For all those reading this thread who either are or may be future uni-loc fans. Get your hands on a Mezz cue using the United joint. I'm sure it's exactly like how the uni-loc joint was meant to work.
I refused to buy a Predator P3 because of the uni-loc. After experiencing the United joint on my Mezz breaker. I wouldn't hesitate to advise anyone looking for a 'quick release' style pin to try it out. Worlds of difference....
I refused to buy a Predator P3 because of the uni-loc. After experiencing the United joint on my Mezz breaker. I wouldn't hesitate to advise anyone looking for a 'quick release' style pin to try it out. Worlds of difference....
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
They are at least using a locating feature as a locating feature. I hate the mezz wavy, but this has some possible promise.
My assumption is that Predators prices are high due to people paying it.
They've been around a long, long time.
Some companies succeed with premium prices and (potentially) lower but adequate volume, while others with lower prices and need higher volume.
There are many good options out there for people who want alternatives.
My still rather recent move to a new cue using a wavy was my first playing experience with something different than a steel piloted joint. I don't have a bad word to speak of it. Now that could be for a host of other reasons that separate my Exceed from my old Falcon/Z2 combo.
I've tried a Mezz cue with the United joint. played ok-- I'm shooting right now with a Revo uni-loc QR connected into a mid-extension which then connects to a 3/8x10 butt. It shoots beautifully and even better than my Mezz. I feel there's some type of great dampening on my hand which grips the cue that feels really soft as I shoot even the hardest shots. I don't know what exactly it is but it feels like there's something in that setup that feels very very nice. Maybe it is the Mike Gullyassy butt that I am using but yea, the Uni-loc QR Revo feels very nice even better than the united joint of mezz in my opinion.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
One of the big problems with proprietary threads is that I've never seen one that does a better job than simple 60deg. thread profile. So you limit your choices of off the shelf parts and who can work on it for no gain.
Oh boy, techno-geek!
The pin is often called on to do a job it was never intended to do. Typical machine threads are designed for one thing, to fasten two things together under some level of pressure. Notice there is nothing said about aligning anything or holding anything straight. Machine screw threads aren't designed to do these things. To illustrate just how sloppy and poorly fit together screw threads are, put your cue together but only turn it a couple threads deep. Shake it and the typical thread rattles and the tip will probably flop around several inches. The last screw thread is just as sloppy as the first so we see a flat faced joint on a pool cue with no alignment aid is basically flawed. A pilot, large or small, is needed for precise alignment. We get close enough with the pins because the joint is massively overengineered in a pool cue. Another reason is that most are using a higher quality thread with tighter tolerances than a piece of threaded rod from the hardware store. Years ago I had an order botched by Atlas, botched so badly that it seemed deliberate and I suspected an angry employee. I suppose a green hand could confuse how bins were labeled or something similar but among other things I got the cheap pins and inserts. Not worth shipping back, I threw them in my junk drawer. I think most cue builders would do the same.
Ultimately i planned to go to my own pin for several reasons. One being the same as most that have a unique pin and female thread, I wanted to stand out a little bit and I also wanted to prevent other components from fitting mine. A Hubilt butt and a shaft I didn't make is not a Hubilt cue. Neither is my cue shaft on a different butt. Experience has taught me that most aren't going to mention it is a hybrid and the person trying the cue is going to go away with the thought that is how a Hubilt cue hits. So there are good reasons for the development of a lot of different joints. One is that the builder probably thinks they are building a little better cue, two is to standout a little bit, and three is to prevent the mismatched hybrids I mentioned.
I heard about a master pistolsmith for years. Never got to fondle one of his pistols. When a magazine had a large article and a centerfold of the pistol I scored it instantly! Damn, all these years, and people waiting six or eight years to get one and the gun had a very nasty looking misfit! After a minute's thought I realized that with the gun passing from hand to hand after leaving the builder the fault was probably in somebody else's assembly. I had to think it was a bitter pill for the builder to swallow, the gun featured in an international magazine, looking like a man that just came out of the outhouse with his polka dot drawers showing!
Lots of reasons for the various threads and joint designs used in pool cues, best engineering rarely one of them!
Hu
The pin is often called on to do a job it was never intended to do. Typical machine threads are designed for one thing, to fasten two things together under some level of pressure. Notice there is nothing said about aligning anything or holding anything straight. Machine screw threads aren't designed to do these things. To illustrate just how sloppy and poorly fit together screw threads are, put your cue together but only turn it a couple threads deep. Shake it and the typical thread rattles and the tip will probably flop around several inches. The last screw thread is just as sloppy as the first so we see a flat faced joint on a pool cue with no alignment aid is basically flawed. A pilot, large or small, is needed for precise alignment. We get close enough with the pins because the joint is massively overengineered in a pool cue. Another reason is that most are using a higher quality thread with tighter tolerances than a piece of threaded rod from the hardware store. Years ago I had an order botched by Atlas, botched so badly that it seemed deliberate and I suspected an angry employee. I suppose a green hand could confuse how bins were labeled or something similar but among other things I got the cheap pins and inserts. Not worth shipping back, I threw them in my junk drawer. I think most cue builders would do the same.
Ultimately i planned to go to my own pin for several reasons. One being the same as most that have a unique pin and female thread, I wanted to stand out a little bit and I also wanted to prevent other components from fitting mine. A Hubilt butt and a shaft I didn't make is not a Hubilt cue. Neither is my cue shaft on a different butt. Experience has taught me that most aren't going to mention it is a hybrid and the person trying the cue is going to go away with the thought that is how a Hubilt cue hits. So there are good reasons for the development of a lot of different joints. One is that the builder probably thinks they are building a little better cue, two is to standout a little bit, and three is to prevent the mismatched hybrids I mentioned.
I heard about a master pistolsmith for years. Never got to fondle one of his pistols. When a magazine had a large article and a centerfold of the pistol I scored it instantly! Damn, all these years, and people waiting six or eight years to get one and the gun had a very nasty looking misfit! After a minute's thought I realized that with the gun passing from hand to hand after leaving the builder the fault was probably in somebody else's assembly. I had to think it was a bitter pill for the builder to swallow, the gun featured in an international magazine, looking like a man that just came out of the outhouse with his polka dot drawers showing!
Lots of reasons for the various threads and joint designs used in pool cues, best engineering rarely one of them!
Hu
To be clear, I'm only speaking of the fit/finish of the United joint vs the Uni-loc. In the end both joint pins squeeze the faces of two parts together. Way more factors that play into the hit of a cue. I believe specifically the pin type to be one of the least improtant.
Moot if you don't care about such things.
I personally am not an equipment junkie, so I'm really indifferent to whether or not I'm limiting my potential reckless abandon purchases.
That said, I agree with your stance on the matter completely.
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
I like for people to have access to information. What they do with it is up to them.
word....
100%.