So What Does One Do When They Don't Have a Decent Local Mechanic...?

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
Honestly, in this particular case, I just accepted the opinion of some more versed in such matters without digging into it. Not table mechanics mind you, but supply vendors that stated it was what I should be using on this specific table.

So there was no hidden personal reasoning behind the Tour Edition purchase. Simply what I was told to buy.

That said, I don't enjoy pinball machine like tables, and I don't make a habit of playing banks, so maybe slower cushions won't be such a concern for me...? Won't know till I try I suppose. I do know I could stretch some rubber bands across my rails and get more action then what I was experiencing with my old dead ones....lol

If it ends up being too slow for my liking then the worst case is I end up redo'ing the rails again at some point. I did get a great price on the Tour Edition cushions so the pain will be in time lost not so much $$.
RKC taught me to use these on older red label diamonds. Thats how I recognized the off color nose of the cushion!
They do not play as fast as a Superspeed or comparable. They however IMO, they will more than do the job for a home table. I have installed a dozen or so sets of them. ONE customer says they dont like them, not too bad of a %.

TFT
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
They do not play as fast as a Superspeed or comparable. They however IMO, they will more than do the job for a home table.
Damn it... I just looked at the old cushions and they were indeed Superspeeds. Now I'm stuck debating on whether I should replace the Tour Editions with Superspeed.

Damn online forums...lol
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
Damn it... I just looked at the old cushions and they were indeed Superspeeds. Now I'm stuck debating on whether I should replace the Tour Editions with Superspeed.

Damn online forums...lol
NOOOO, I really doubt it is gonna ruin your day. You are already knee deep in, my post was not to try to sway you from your path. I think you will be just fine and looking forward to seeing your total outcome!

TFT

p.s. i like the part where you said you can replace next recover if you dont like, all of this will teach you stuff :)
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
NOOOO, I really doubt it is gonna ruin your day. You are already knee deep in, my post was not to try to sway you from your path. I think you will be just fine and looking forward to seeing your total outcome!

TFT

p.s. i like the part where you said you can replace next recover if you dont like, all of this will teach you stuff :)
Ok... I'll run down and mark up these Tour Editions to help push me through this waffling...lol

I have already checked pricing and availability on SuperSpeeds. They're available but I rather not endure the cost with the TE already installed and ready to go.
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
Honestly, in this particular case, I just accepted the opinion of some more versed in such matters without digging into it. Not table mechanics mind you, but supply vendors that stated it was what I should be using on this specific table.

So there was no hidden personal reasoning behind the Tour Edition purchase. Simply what I was told to buy.

That said, I don't enjoy pinball machine like tables, and I don't make a habit of playing banks, so maybe slower cushions won't be such a concern for me...? Won't know till I try I suppose. I do know I could stretch some rubber bands across my rails and get more action then what I was experiencing with my old dead ones....lol

If it ends up being too slow for my liking then the worst case is I end up redo'ing the rails again at some point. I did get a great price on the Tour Edition cushions so the pain will be in time lost not so much $$.
You could always install the cushions with no cloth. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
It seems as though I managed to avoid a mistake in laying out my new miters.

When I was doing the math, I calculated/converted my desired pocket opening (4.5) and then added 2x the facing material's nominal thickness, (.200"). Most of my layout tools are in metric so my measurement ended up being 124.3mm.
pocket2.png

Here's where the mistake comes in. Although I knew that the facings would be cut at the 39 degrees (141), so the value of .2" wasn't going to be accurate. I didn't actually do the math to determine how much more the resulting hypotenuse would shrink my pocket. I just knew it was going to smaller and I was purposely erring to that smaller dimension anyway. It wasn't until I started to script an update to this thread, that I did run the numbers and determined that I was going to shrink my pocket nearly 6mm. That's .236" or .118 a side :oops:. Lets call that a quarter inch, and a near miss.

On the upside, I haven't cut anything and I get to post a potential pitfall on the forum so maybe someone else can avoid the mistake. ..oh and I think I've managed to convince myself to buy a new mitersaw
 

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
It seems as though I managed to avoid a mistake in laying out my new miters.

When I was doing the math, I calculated/converted my desired pocket opening (4.5) and then added 2x the facing material's nominal thickness, (.200"). Most of my layout tools are in metric so my measurement ended up being 124.3mm.
View attachment 620970
Here's where the mistake comes in. Although I knew that the facings would be cut at the 39 degrees (141), so the value of .2" wasn't going to be accurate. I didn't actually do the math to determine how much more the resulting hypotenuse would shrink my pocket. I just knew it was going to smaller and I was purposely erring to that smaller dimension anyway. It wasn't until I started to script an update to this thread, that I did run the numbers and determined that I was going to shrink my pocket nearly 6mm. That's .236" or .118 a side :oops:. Lets call that a quarter inch, and a near miss.

On the upside, I haven't cut anything and I get to post a potential pitfall on the forum so maybe someone else can avoid the mistake. ..oh and I think I've managed to convince myself to buy a new mitersaw
I appreciate the detail you are going into and the commitment to doing it right, hats off sir!

TFT
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
I appreciate the detail you are going into and the commitment to doing it right, hats off sir!

TFT
Thanks... Full disclosure on forums does two things. First, it allows others to experience what it takes to perform a task. Providing them a means to guage if it's something that want to take on themselves. Second, it's a virtual 'rubber duck' so one can vet their thoughts/practices before getting in too deep.

This mis-step in laying out my miters is a perfect example of catching your own mistake by walking through the process you followed.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
So, I have a table, new 860, and replacement K55 rails. What I don't have is a mechanic even remotely close to me that can do anything more than haphazardly wrap new cloth on existing equipment.

My 4.5x9 table currently has dead rails, >5" pockets, and >15yr old cloth that I flipped upside down so the kids could be entertained during covid lockdowns. Fast forward 1 year and this thing is destroying my game. So since I can't have a table in my home and not hit balls on it. I decided to invest in reconditioning the table, and hopefully tweak it to a competitive level play wise.

There are a couple of guys locally that can stretch cloth, but that's about it, and based on the work I've seen of theirs I'd still be disappointed even if I got done for free.

If time wasn't an issue. Can someone that's pretty darn handy, with an arsenal of tools, rework their table from 'loose family fun' condition, to something more akin to pro difficulty...?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Good table mechanics are contracted out, often to redo rooms once a yr.
If your along or close to an interstate, find out which table mechanic passes by once or twice a yr and have em look at it
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
It seems as though I managed to avoid a mistake in laying out my new miters.
Okee dokee... So I had a run at the math again and it works out as follows...:

************************************************
Corner Pockets:
  • 4.5" (114.3mm)
  • Facing material thickness: 0.200" (5.08mm)
  • Facing material thickness at 39 degrees (180 minus 141): 0.3178" (8.07mm) <--Note:he remaining angle is used to calc facing cross section
Pocket Miter Calc (mm):
2x(8.07)= 16.14 <-double facing at mitered thickness​
114.3+16.14= 130.44 <-pocket opening plus facing thickness​
130.4mm (5.13") <-total width of opening to cut​

************************************************
Side Pockets:
  • 5" (127mm)
  • Facing material thickness: 0.200" (5.08mm)
  • Facing material thickness at 77 degrees (180 minus 103): 0.205" (5.207mm) <--Note: The remaining angle is used to calc facing cross section
Pocket Miter Calc (mm):
2x(5.207)= 10.41 <-double facing at mitered thickness
127+10.41= 137.41 <-pocket opening plus facing thickness
137.41mm (5.41") <-total width of opening to cut


So I took a rough stab at measuring the pocket shelf before I wiped clean my old markings. I think I'll end up just over 1" when it's all said and done. Of course I won't know for sure until I lay out the correct miters. The WPA regs state that the downward angle can not be lesset than 12 degrees, so I think I'll end up somewhere near that number.

I also picked up a decent mitersaw this morning so I now have some reliable equipment to slice and dice my rails.
 
Last edited:

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I also picked up a decent mitersaw this morning so I now have some reliable equipment to slice and dice my rails.
Ah shit. This guy with a decent mitersaw? Hide your women folk, there's gonna be one helluva table out of this effort!

In all seriousness, this thread and your progress frickin rocks. Keep up the good work, looking forward to updates!:cool:🤘
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Ah shit. This guy with a decent mitersaw? Hide your women folk, there's gonna be one helluva table out of this effort!
You wanna talk about effort.... You wouldn't believe the crap I put my league team through while debating over what saw to buy. In my mind, one the key uses for the new saw is my pool table reno. They play pool, and for some odd reason speak to me, so it makes sense that they should really care what saw I end up using to mod my table..lol. Endless group chat messages about mitersaws and comparable functionality. Poor bastards...

The decision boiled down to two saws. A bosch glider or a Makita, (both 10"ers). Long story short, unless someone wants to read the reasoning, I ended up with the Makita
saw.jpg

In all seriousness, this thread and your progress frickin rocks. Keep up the good work, looking forward to updates!:cool:🤘
Thanks... I enjoy roughly documenting efforts. The next little bit of work is going to be a tad off the usual rails (see what I did there), but it's an itch I need to stratch so hopefully it won't make everyone's minds melt while it's ongoing...lol

Stay tuned
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
You wanna talk about effort.... You wouldn't believe the crap I put my league team through while debating over what saw to buy. In my mind, one the key uses for the new saw is my pool table reno. They play pool, and for some odd reason speak to me, so it makes sense that they should really care what saw I end up using to mod my table..lol. Endless group chat messages about mitersaws and comparable functionality. Poor bastards...

The decision boiled down to two saws. A bosch glider or a Makita, (both 10"ers). Long story short, unless someone wants to read the reasoning, I ended up with the Makita
View attachment 621903

Thanks... I enjoy roughly documenting efforts. The next little bit of work is going to be a tad off the usual rails (see what I did there), but it's an itch I need to stratch so hopefully it won't make everyone's minds melt while it's ongoing...lol

Stay tuned
Smart choice, same saw i use as well. Now you need a 10" sanding disk for doing pocket work.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Smart choice, same saw i use as well. Now you need a 10" sanding disk for doing pocket work.
Sanding disk for the saw specifically...?..., or do you mean a stand alone machine such as pic'd below...?
njnnkknkn.png

If you meant for the saw, then that would be a first for me. I guess feeding along the fence line would be a great way to sand to a specific miter/bevel. ...but I'd have to worry about deflecting the disk with the side loading. Mitersaws struggle to hold their settings as it is.

If you meant a stand alone machine, then yes, one of those disk sanders is on a wish list. However I'm more of a vintage machinery guy when applicable. Almost managed a General disk/belt sander at auction some years ago. These types of machines grab top dollar when on the block though.
,l,l,l,,pkpkpk.png


Either way, are you using the sanding disk to creep up on the final dimension for your pocket miters...? I had planned to get real close with the mitersaw and then touch up by hand.

Of course, if I should get myself another new tool, I'd be ok with that as well...lol
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
10"
Sanding disk for the saw specifically...?..., or do you mean a stand alone machine such as pic'd below...?
View attachment 621912
If you meant for the saw, then that would be a first for me. I guess feeding along the fence line would be a great way to sand to a specific miter/bevel. ...but I'd have to worry about deflecting the disk with the side loading. Mitersaws struggle to hold their settings as it is.

If you meant a stand alone machine, then yes, one of those disk sanders is on a wish list. However I'm more of a vintage machinery guy when applicable. Almost managed a General disk/belt sander at auction some years ago. These types of machines grab top dollar when on the block though.
View attachment 621913

Either way, are you using the sanding disk to creep up on the final dimension for your pocket miters...? I had planned to get real close with the mitersaw and then touch up by hand.

Of course, if I should get myself another new tool, I'd be ok with that as well...lol
10" sanding disk from a table saw with 50 grit sandpaper works beautifully for the compound miter in the pockets. And you bought the only saw that has virtually no deflection. 50grit means easy removal of wood and rubber at the same time with almost no pressure applied.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
It seems as though I managed to avoid a mistake in laying out my new miters.

When I was doing the math, I calculated/converted my desired pocket opening (4.5) and then added 2x the facing material's nominal thickness, (.200"). Most of my layout tools are in metric so my measurement ended up being 124.3mm.
View attachment 620970
Here's where the mistake comes in. Although I knew that the facings would be cut at the 39 degrees (141), so the value of .2" wasn't going to be accurate. I didn't actually do the math to determine how much more the resulting hypotenuse would shrink my pocket. I just knew it was going to smaller and I was purposely erring to that smaller dimension anyway. It wasn't until I started to script an update to this thread, that I did run the numbers and determined that I was going to shrink my pocket nearly 6mm. That's .236" or .118 a side :oops:. Lets call that a quarter inch, and a near miss.

On the upside, I haven't cut anything and I get to post a potential pitfall on the forum so maybe someone else can avoid the mistake. ..oh and I think I've managed to convince myself to buy a new mitersaw
A 141 miter on a pocket is a 51 degree reading on a chio saw, not 39.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Sanding disk for the saw specifically...?..., or do you mean a stand alone machine such as pic'd below...?
View attachment 621912
If you meant for the saw, then that would be a first for me. I guess feeding along the fence line would be a great way to sand to a specific miter/bevel. ...but I'd have to worry about deflecting the disk with the side loading. Mitersaws struggle to hold their settings as it is.

If you meant a stand alone machine, then yes, one of those disk sanders is on a wish list. However I'm more of a vintage machinery guy when applicable. Almost managed a General disk/belt sander at auction some years ago. These types of machines grab top dollar when on the block though.
View attachment 621913

Either way, are you using the sanding disk to creep up on the final dimension for your pocket miters...? I had planned to get real close with the mitersaw and then touch up by hand.

Of course, if I should get myself another new tool, I'd be ok with that as well...lol
If thats what in your mind for making the compound miter angles, good luck, have at it😅🤣🤣
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Sanding disk for the saw specifically...?..., or do you mean a stand alone machine such as pic'd below...?
View attachment 621912
If you meant for the saw, then that would be a first for me. I guess feeding along the fence line would be a great way to sand to a specific miter/bevel. ...but I'd have to worry about deflecting the disk with the side loading. Mitersaws struggle to hold their settings as it is.

If you meant a stand alone machine, then yes, one of those disk sanders is on a wish list. However I'm more of a vintage machinery guy when applicable. Almost managed a General disk/belt sander at auction some years ago. These types of machines grab top dollar when on the block though.
View attachment 621913

Either way, are you using the sanding disk to creep up on the final dimension for your pocket miters...? I had planned to get real close with the mitersaw and then touch up by hand.

Of course, if I should get myself another new tool, I'd be ok with that as well...lol
There is no better machine on this planet for doing the pocket miters than the right chop saw, used with a 10" sanding disk and 50grit sandpaper😉
 
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