Cnc vs non Cnc cues other questions

[Chili Palmer]

You can't make sharp points using a CNC?


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That would depend on what direction you're trying to go with that. (Yes, I can read between the lines)

Can I take a CNC machine and put a router on it and cut the forearm to install traditional points - yes.

Can I take a CNC machine and put inlays in for points - yes, but without additional work those points will be round.

Your point?

 

[str8eight]

That would depend on what direction you're trying to go with that. (Yes, I can read between the lines)

Can I take a CNC machine and put a router on it and cut the forearm to install traditional points - yes.

Can I take a CNC machine and put inlays in for points - yes, but without additional work those points will be round.

Your point?

You said "I prefer nice sharp points to a round top" which is why you wouldn't buy a cue made with a CNC. Was just curious if you knew that it was possible to make sharp points using a CNC which would make your reasoning for not buying one just a matter of personal preference and not do to limitations of a CNC.


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[Chili Palmer]

You said "I prefer nice sharp points to a round top" which is why you wouldn't buy a cue made with a CNC. Was just curious if you knew that it was possible to make sharp points using a CNC which would make your reasoning for not buying one just a matter of personal preference and not do to limitations of a CNC.


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Nope, no limitations due to CNC, I love technology and I actually own a Hightower lathe AND a CNC machine, just prefer old school points versus new school

 

[JoeyInCali]

Nope, no limitations due to CNC, I love technology and I actually own a Hightower lathe AND a CNC machine, just prefer old school points versus new school

Iirc, Ned's Billiards band Digest cue had panto points/inlays

 

[Chili Palmer]

Iirc, Ned's Billiards band Digest cue had panto points/inlays

I'm not sure which cue you're referring to but yes, he uses a panto machine. (at least he did in 2018).

Someone earlier said something about he makes simple cues, here's a couple of examples of his more elaborate work.

Not a Morris nut hugger by the way. I picked up one of his cues back in 2018 when I got back into pool. I had purchased 5 or 6 cues to see what I liked and the Morris was the best player of them all. (Dzuricky, MVP, McDermott and Joss were some of the other names I tried).

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

Jimi Hendrix is a legend but if he were to come out today would he stand out from today's virtuosos? Probably not. Yes I realize there are tons of good cue makers who make nice cues without the use of a CNC.


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Jimi was almost as good as Eddie.

 

[Sheldon]

Nope, no limitations due to CNC, I love technology and I actually own a Hightower lathe AND a CNC machine, just prefer old school points versus new school

Where do you draw the line? You could take that concept all the way to hand tools only.
Or are you trying to say you only like V-pointed cues? (Which can also be made [better] with CNC.)

 

[cueman]

Thomas Wayne, himself, said he was very impressed by the cnc Samsara had in their shop.
I don't know when they got them though .

The most impressive cue that was done on manual machine ( to me , anyway ) was Judd's Dream Catcher cue .
His wife, Trudy, did all the panto work.
Used to see them in the 90's before they moved to Colorado .

Thomas wrote in 2001 that he and Samsara were the only ones to build certain designs and that he did it with cnc and they did it without cnc.

 

[cueman]

You can't make sharp points using a CNC?


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My son has built sharp points and full splice cues with cnc. And I have done both without cnc.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

CNC vs Non-cnc is a complicated issue in many cases. Neither is inherently always better than the other.

In any machine, there are a number of variables.

Using jigs and tooling, a manual machine may easily be as accurate and precise as a cnc machine.

A cnc will be easier to configure to new tasks and is likely more versatile than a manual setup.

A manual machine is likely simpler for a lower skilled person to use. A well set up manual machine can have a five minute learning curve. Turn on machine, move from point A to point B.

Neither machine will be accurate or precise if it is poorly set up, has sloppy components, has dull cutters, is poorly maintained, etc..

It is arguable that a manual machine with good components is better for many parts of cue building. Cutting tapers, cutting tenons, boring holes, cutting splices, etc. can all be set up to be extremely precise and accurate on a manual machine for a lot less cost than a CNC machine.

Cutting intricate inlays is hands-down more suited for a CNC machine.

Using the same machine to do multiple tasks is likely more suited to a CNC machine, but with the right jigs and tooling, a person can make a relatively inexpensive manual machine and turn out the same quality on many of the tasks. I designed and built a tapering machine that I could change out the guide, raise the spindle and cut short-splice forearms in a few minutes. I made the jig so I could easily and accurately adjust the length of the points. I could also cut butterfly short-splices. All told, about $800 in parts and hours of labor. I built it with hand tools and my first test forearm held ~10" points very evenly. If I set it up and zero'd the machine, I could have a highschool student make a dozen without supervision.

Long and short, both take a different, but overlapping set of skills. One of the most important aspects that is rarely mentioned here is having the ability and tooling to accurately measure. Just because your calipers read 12.50mm doesn't actually mean that your part is 12.50mm. Inspection of parts is a skill set unto itself and not one to be taken lightly when people are talking about less than 0.08mm.

 

[Murray Tucker]

This shit makes my head hurt. A panto and a CNC inlay machine use the EXACT same cutter and produce the EXACT same pocket. Both will be round (cutter diameter) unless they are sharpened. There is no magic bullet that makes a panto cut a sharp pocket. Razor sharp diamonds into light wood with no huge glue pockets at the tip. Cut with CNC.

 

[str8eight]

This shit makes my head hurt. A panto and a CNC inlay machine use the EXACT same cutter and produce the EXACT same pocket. Both will be round (cutter diameter) unless they are sharpened. There is no magic bullet that makes a panto cut a sharp pocket. Razor sharp diamonds into light wood with no huge glue pockets at the tip. Cut with CNC.

BUT BUT BUT with a pantograph you have to use your hand to trace the desired design!! It's WAY more involved than CNC.


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[Floyd_M]

Thinking & comparing outside this conversation... Which is more desirable &/or higher priced, 'hand painted one of a kind' or 'exact reproduceable machine' painting?
One can be priceless the other priced less.

 

[thoffen]

As a matter of style I don't like rounded points or inlays whose natural line would come to a point. Probably that kind of design is the sort of thing OP was cautioned against. But none of that inherently has a thing to do with CNC except for facilitating the use and repetition of many inlays for someone who has made the monetary and time investment required to learn to do so. It seems impractical to make a flat bottom point using a pantograph compared to splicing, so maybe that signifies use of CNC, it still only signifies a stylistic preference.

But that's just personal taste. A good quality playing cue has nothing to do with its inlays. If I like the artistry, materials, construction, and play of a cue it doesn't matter if and how CNC was used for its construction.

 

[str8eight]

Thinking & comparing outside this conversation... Which is more desirable &/or higher priced, 'hand painted one of a kind' or 'exact reproduceable machine' painting?
One can be priceless the other priced less.

Not even close to being comparable. Paintings have no defined constraints. Inlays do.


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[str8eight]

I’m guessing you’ve never actually seen the operation…

And yes, it’s significantly different than letting a computer do it for you.

Please tell me what I'm missing? I have no idea why I'm debating with someone who doesn't make cues.


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[Murray Tucker]

BUT BUT BUT with a pantograph you have to use your hand to trace the desired design!! It's WAY more involved than CNC.


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Sure it is but I was addressing the sharp vs round. Panto's just don't magically make a sharp inlay. Plus most of the templates used are made on a CNC. I know, I've made the templates for some pretty famous cues.

 

[David in FL]

Please tell me what I'm missing? I have no idea why I'm debating with someone who doesn't make cues.


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Because early on you made a ridiculous assertion that no quality cue maker didn’t use a CNC machine. I simply demonstrated that that was wrong.

What you are missing, is the difference between a computer controlling an operation and someone doing so manually.

But, for one final time, neither one is inherently better or worse than the other. But to claim that they are no different from each other is disingenuous

 

[str8eight]

Because early on you made a ridiculous assertion that no quality cue maker didn’t use a CNC machine. I simply demonstrated that that was wrong.

What you are missing, is the difference between a computer controlling and operation and someone doing so manually.

But, for one final time, neither one is inherently better or worse than the other. But to claim that they are no different from each other is disingenuous

Ok David.


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[Chili Palmer]

Where do you draw the line? You could take that concept all the way to hand tools only.
Or are you trying to say you only like V-pointed cues? (Which can also be made [better] with CNC.)

I like v pointed cues and have zero issue if they are done via CNC.

The funny thing about this whole thread is that I guarantee the original statement is based on sharp points but the person/people who said it don’t quite understand how it all works.

In all honesty, I couldn’t care less about if a CNC machine was used for every step of the build but most people don’t understand how it all works and they get this bad taste in their mouth thinking people are cheating by using CNC. To me, it’s the smart way to do business if you’re new to the game and quite honestly, you’d be a fool if you started building cues in todays world without a CNC machine simply based on cost. That being said, if someone has been building cues without CNC and they are happy with their profits, income, etc. then there’s no reason to change a thing

BUT BUT BUT with a pantograph you have to use your hand to trace the desired design!! It's WAY more involved than CNC.


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Funny thing is, a panto used to be much cheaper than CNC but that's not the case anymore.