How to fix the "yips"

J

johnnysd

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am having an issue where sometimes I completely lost the ability to play. I will get completely out of sequence, and I will do a quick jabby stroke or just start the forward stroke before I mean to and just sort of just lamely slap at the ball. Everything I have tried to stop it when it starts has failed. When It happens I miss my aiming point by like a 1/4" and hit things with literally no stroke at all.

One days when I don't do it I can play quite well. Not pro or anything but like Fargo 600 or so but when I lose it I play super bad so my Fargo has dipped below 500 which is very embarrasing.

20 years ago I was probably close to 700.

I am not really able to practice much which is not ideal, so just play league on Sunday APA, APA Masters and BCA 10 ball.

Would appreciate any thoughts

Johnny
 
What if you focused solely on shot timing where your cue acceleration is spot-on? (I AM NOT AN INSTRUCTOR.)
 
dquarasr said:
What if you focused solely on shot timing where your cue acceleration is spot-on? (I AM NOT AN INSTRUCTOR.)
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Close to what I have been trying. Obviously it matches when it happens I start thinking all this technical stuff to try and diagnose and fix and that makes it worse
 
Maybe you can try counting your strokes --- For example: One and two and three and SHOOT. I've suggested that to clients of mine who have had issues with erratic stroking and it seems to help.
 
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johnnysd said:
I am having an issue where sometimes I completely lost the ability to play. I will get completely out of sequence, and I will do a quick jabby stroke or just start the forward stroke before I mean to and just sort of just lamely slap at the ball. Everything I have tried to stop it when it starts has failed. When It happens I miss my aiming point by like a 1/4" and hit things with literally no stroke at all.

One days when I don't do it I can play quite well. Not pro or anything but like Fargo 600 or so but when I lose it I play super bad so my Fargo has dipped below 500 which is very embarrasing.

20 years ago I was probably close to 700.

I am not really able to practice much which is not ideal, so just play league on Sunday APA, APA Masters and BCA 10 ball.

Would appreciate any thoughts

Johnny
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Without seeing your stroke, my assumption is you don't take long enough backstrokes. Stroke back all the way to your bridge hand, smoothly, slowly, "like butta". This will reduce forward pokes greatly.
 
BilliardsAbout said:
Without seeing your stroke, my assumption is you don't take long enough backstrokes. Stroke back all the way to your bridge hand, smoothly, slowly, "like butta". This will reduce forward pokes greatly.
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Definitely a possibility. I will try it.
 
johnnysd said:
I am having an issue where sometimes I completely lost the ability to play. I will get completely out of sequence, and I will do a quick jabby stroke or just start the forward stroke before I mean to and just sort of just lamely slap at the ball. Everything I have tried to stop it when it starts has failed. When It happens I miss my aiming point by like a 1/4" and hit things with literally no stroke at all.
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I'm not an instructor. Have you tried just taking a break when this happens? For me personally sometimes it seems like it's caused by my focus going out the window. Sometimes a bathroom break can change how things look when you get back to the table, sometimes a wild change in the genre of music on the jukebox, wiping your face with a damp paper towel in the restroom, doing a few jumping jacks (people may think you're insane though). I don't really know what causes it for me, but if I kind of distract myself for a couple minutes I find when I get back to the table sometimes I settle in comfortably and actually start stroking the ball correctly and making shots again. Jabby poke strokes for me are almost a sure sign I've either lost interest in the game at hand, not confident in the shot (maybe it's an oddball that I don't usually see) are playing a bit scared or have lost focus.
 
Acquaintance from the Great Pool Hall era had nerve damage from house building. All the hammering killed his stroke. Right in the zone, it would start to tremble and often rattle the cue on the rail. Not much he could do. Expensive neuro treatment maybe if there is such a thing.
 
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johnnysd said:
I am having an issue where sometimes I completely lost the ability to play. I will get completely out of sequence, and I will do a quick jabby stroke or just start the forward stroke before I mean to and just sort of just lamely slap at the ball. Everything I have tried to stop it when it starts has failed. When It happens I miss my aiming point by like a 1/4" and hit things with literally no stroke at all.

One days when I don't do it I can play quite well. Not pro or anything but like Fargo 600 or so but when I lose it I play super bad so my Fargo has dipped below 500 which is very embarrasing.

20 years ago I was probably close to 700.

I am not really able to practice much which is not ideal, so just play league on Sunday APA, APA Masters and BCA 10 ball.

Would appreciate any thoughts

Johnny
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Hey Johnny
I'm not an instructor but I would like to offer you something to think about.

Would you get the yips throwing a ball, throwing a dart or tossing a horse shoe? Of course not.
So why in the world would you get the yips throwing a cue stick at a cue ball. :)

My guess is that you may be muscling the cue action thinking that you have to muscle the cue thru the cue ball.
Keep something in mind, the cue stick weighs a lot more than the cue ball.
All you have to do is provide a straight stroke and let the cue do its job.

Have fun and stay with it.
John
 
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Bob Jewett said:
I understand that yips are a known problem, and I have never heard of a solution. You may want to talk to your doctor. Here is what the Mayo Clinic has to say: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/yips/symptoms-causes/syc-20379021
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That's interesting, I didn't know there was a medical perspective on 'yips' that's distinct from performance anxiety.
Then in the article's causes section, they seem to slip back into performance anxiety and choking. I wonder if there are two distinct underlying problems (the 'writer's cramp' causes and the anxiety causes) that result in similar effects, or if the 'writers cramp' and anxiety overlap/merge in causing the muscle contractions. Or if it could be either case, depending on the person.

I guess the symptoms don't lend themselves to neatly ringfencing a single cause.
 
not an instructor
but how about loosening your butt grip?
relaxing your grip might help relax your mind
it also seems more difficult to "poke" with a light grip
and if you happen to shake, I think the shaking would show up less when the grip isn't as tight
good luck!
 
Why is everybody begging off on the instructor word? My shingle doesn't say instructor. That ventured, advice is advice. New ideas are ideas and often good food.
 
straightline said:
Why is everybody begging off on the instructor word? My shingle doesn't say instructor. That ventured, advice is advice. New ideas are ideas and often good food.
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Because the name of this forum is 'Ask the Instructor,' so posters who are giving advice who aren't instructors are being courteous and considerate by making it clear that they're not instructors. If it was the main forum it would be different.
 
Some things are neurological and you can't beat Father Time. Look into CoQ-10 supplements. I know a neurologist who says it does help these kinds of things. I'm sure some of the changes recommended here will help as well.
 
FranCrimi said:
Because the name of this forum is 'Ask the Instructor,' so posters who are giving advice who aren't instructors are being courteous and considerate by making it clear that they're not instructors. If it was the main forum it would be different.
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The guy wants help. Enough non instructors responded with "I'm not an instructor". Did the BCA curriculum help any?
 
straightline said:
The guy wants help. Enough non instructors responded with "I'm not an instructor". Did the BCA curriculum help any?
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What curriculum? When I train instructors, I train them my way, based on what I have learned by being both a touring pro and observing and teaching for the last 30 years. All you know is yourself. That's fine, but instructors have the unique perspective of seeing and working with hundreds, and in my case and some other teachers --- thousands of players. You don't think that's something helpful and different than your personal perspective? Anyone stopping you from answering questions here? You're being a grouch because you think teachers don't deserve to be put into a higher category than someone like you. Well in this forum they do and if you don't like it, go answer questions in the main forum. From what I can tell, they're a lot more polite here than the main forum. That's probably why you escaped to here.
 
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One of the best bits of knowledge on the yips I ever came across came from Gravity Golf's David Lee. He explains that slack in joints can often lead to spasams in muscles to compensate for a broken kinetic chain. While there def seems to be a mental component, it would be wise to address any physical reasons for the appearance of yips in your game. David Lee's examples are obv highly geared towards golf but the principle of removing slack can be easily applied to pool. Esp if you're the type not to be really down on the cue, you can develop an inconsistent relationship between the arm and body. Being all the way down like snooker players sets the shoulder rotation near if not full max which takes out all slack and leaves no wiggle room. If, however, you have your chin a few inches off the cue and a high shoulder you can achieve the same look to your stance and setup while carrying varying levels of tension in your shoulder and an inconsistent feel to your stroke. Any time that shoulder tension is too low you lose connection and can snatch at the shot. A fix for this would be to be mindful of your posture through your back in your setup or to preset your arm position in your preshot routine by either forcing your elbow back or bringing it up as high as it goes when getting down, or simply trying to keep the longest stress free distance from your head to your elbow... any of these three will keep the relationship between your body and your cue arm consistent and remove slack from the shoulder joint which should at least make the yips less likely and eliminate a physical cause of them.
Here is the David Lee clip on yips :
 
FranCrimi said:
What curriculum? When I train instructors, I train them my way, based on what I have learned by being both a touring pro and observing and teaching for the last 30 years. All you know is yourself. That's fine, but instructors have the unique perspective of seeing and working with hundreds, and in my case and some other teachers --- thousands of players. You don't think that's something helpful and different than your personal perspective? Anyone stopping you from answering questions here? You're being a grouch because you think teachers don't deserve to be put into a higher category than someone like you. Well in this forum they do and if you don't like it, go answer questions in the main forum. From what I can tell, they're a lot more polite here than the main forum. That's probably why you escaped to here.
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This has what to do with players needing medical advice?
 
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