A Few CTE Questions

Stan and his followers believe that CTE is objective and requires NO understanding of when a shot "looks" on. In other words, there is no subjectivity in aiming when the CTE steps are learned and applied precisely. Generally speaking, shallow angle shots are "A" perceptions, larger angles near half ball hits are "B" perceptions and shots near 45 degrees are "C" perceptions. Stan often labeled these as 15, 30 and 45 degree perceptions as a quick way to reference them. CTE people think that all A shots can be pocketed with the exact same instructions and every shot will go CENTER POCKET until that perception doesn't work any more and you have to go to the B perceptions. So, to be clear, when you can't get a center pocket result with the A perception you can switch over to B and start getting that center pocket again. Inside and outside pivots make this possible, so that a 15 degree outside pivot is the same as a 30 degree inside pivot.

The above flies in the face of physics, geometry and plain common sense. You can't get different results unless you pivot differently or set up to the shot differently. But, not to have a closed mind, many of us were eager to understand how this could possibly work. The answer is a garbled, confused mish mash of terms like visual intelligence, stepping the cue ball, round barns and so on. The question cannot be answered because it doesn't really happen. What does happen, most likely, is that the player, over months and months of practice, finds a way to make the shots go even when they are lined up wrong. Some probably pivot different amounts depending on the shot (like mohrt in his videos) and others might simply set up a little different each time depending on the shot. In other words, and I've said this before, I think the more precisely you follow the CTE steps the worse your results will be because you will be getting the results you should get: Sometimes the balls will match up with the different perceptions and the ball will go in, and other times it won't. If you allow yourself a little breathing room, such as doing away with the rigid manual pivot in favor of more subjective methods like visual sweeps or stepping, then you will give your subconscious the ability to make the shot go.

You yourself have said many times that you "don't give a shit" how it works. It just does. Well, respectfully speaking, if you have that attitude then in my book you forfeit the right to have these kinds of discussions. The fact that it works for you is meaningless. That does not prove that the system is objective or that it works in any way close to what Stan says. It simply means that you shoot well with CTE as a pre-shot routine for whatever reason. Maybe it forces you to slow down or pay more attention or keeps you out of some other bad habit that lowers your pocketing percentage. Whatever it is, I'm quite sure that it isn't some phenomena that "was never meant to be" and that has never been identified in 20 years.

This is why I invented the jelly bean method "JBM" TRADEMARK (just kidding) to illustrate these fallacies. The method instructs you to put two jellybeans in your left pocket and tap on the pocket before you get into shooting position. You set up a series of 1/4 ball, 1/2 ball and full ball shots at various places on the table and then you put in some serious table time. Put in a minimum of 20 hours per week for 3 months and the JBM will have you shooting lights out. Just make sure you tap those jelly beans and, oh, one other thing. You MUST have a straight stroke in order for this to work. I contend that this method has improved my game immensely. It's like stealing. I don't really give a shit how the jelly beans are able to transfer their mojo to my cue but they do. The proof is that I play so much better using JBM. It has nothing to do with the fact that I put in many hours of structured practice. It all has to do with the jelly bean mojo even though I don't care what that is.

Do you understand the argument now?
Do you understand what I asked you to do which is a lot more simple than trying to decipher all of the above which is meaningless bullshit. If you do what I asked below and previously, your own arguments and questions will be answered.

Here you go once again:

Here's a question for you. OB is on the foot spot. CB is away from the side rail diamond closest to the side pocket10 3/4" from rail to back of the CB. (the side closest to you) on the head side of the table. How do you align the CB to the OB with CTE to pocket the OB in the right corner pocket? IOW, what do you see and how do you do it? It's a cut to the right. (actually doesn't
matter if it was a cut to the left with the same distance instructions on CB from opposite side rail)

Next: Same setup EXCEPT the CB is 14 3/4" from side rail to back of OB. What do you see and how do you do it?

Be explicit in your written instructions. (it's not complicated in the least and doesn't need much wording) I can do it in 10 words.

After finishing your post, did you take the shots? What happened? Go in or miss?

Unlike what I was trying to get you to do on something else, this will require no pivot. What are the visuals and setup using
CTE Pro1?
 
Stan and his followers believe that CTE is objective and requires NO understanding of when a shot "looks" on. In other words, there is no subjectivity in aiming when the CTE steps are learned and applied precisely. Generally speaking, shallow angle shots are "A" perceptions, larger angles near half ball hits are "B" perceptions and shots near 45 degrees are "C" perceptions. Stan often labeled these as 15, 30 and 45 degree perceptions as a quick way to reference them. CTE people think that all A shots can be pocketed with the exact same instructions and every shot will go CENTER POCKET until that perception doesn't work any more and you have to go to the B perceptions. So, to be clear, when you can't get a center pocket result with the A perception you can switch over to B and start getting that center pocket again. Inside and outside pivots make this possible, so that a 15 degree outside pivot is the same as a 30 degree inside pivot.

The above flies in the face of physics, geometry and plain common sense. You can't get different results unless you pivot differently or set up to the shot differently. But, not to have a closed mind, many of us were eager to understand how this could possibly work. The answer is a garbled, confused mish mash of terms like visual intelligence, stepping the cue ball, round barns and so on. The question cannot be answered because it doesn't really happen. What does happen, most likely, is that the player, over months and months of practice, finds a way to make the shots go even when they are lined up wrong. Some probably pivot different amounts depending on the shot (like mohrt in his videos) and others might simply set up a little different each time depending on the shot. In other words, and I've said this before, I think the more precisely you follow the CTE steps the worse your results will be because you will be getting the results you should get: Sometimes the balls will match up with the different perceptions and the ball will go in, and other times it won't. If you allow yourself a little breathing room, such as doing away with the rigid manual pivot in favor of more subjective methods like visual sweeps or stepping, then you will give your subconscious the ability to make the shot go.

You yourself have said many times that you "don't give a shit" how it works. It just does. Well, respectfully speaking, if you have that attitude then in my book you forfeit the right to have these kinds of discussions. The fact that it works for you is meaningless. That does not prove that the system is objective or that it works in any way close to what Stan says. It simply means that you shoot well with CTE as a pre-shot routine for whatever reason. Maybe it forces you to slow down or pay more attention or keeps you out of some other bad habit that lowers your pocketing percentage. Whatever it is, I'm quite sure that it isn't some phenomena that "was never meant to be" and that has never been identified in 20 years.

This is why I invented the jelly bean method "JBM" TRADEMARK (just kidding) to illustrate these fallacies. The method instructs you to put two jellybeans in your left pocket and tap on the pocket before you get into shooting position. You set up a series of 1/4 ball, 1/2 ball and full ball shots at various places on the table and then you put in some serious table time. Put in a minimum of 20 hours per week for 3 months and the JBM will have you shooting lights out. Just make sure you tap those jelly beans and, oh, one other thing. You MUST have a straight stroke in order for this to work. I contend that this method has improved my game immensely. It's like stealing. I don't really give a shit how the jelly beans are able to transfer their mojo to my cue but they do. The proof is that I play so much better using JBM. It has nothing to do with the fact that I put in many hours of structured practice. It all has to do with the jelly bean mojo even though I don't care what that is.

Do you understand the argument now?
Damn, I've been putting them in my right pocket this whole time. :cry:
 
Stan and his followers believe that CTE is objective and requires NO understanding of when a shot "looks" on. In other words, there is no subjectivity in aiming when the CTE steps are learned and applied precisely. Generally speaking, shallow angle shots are "A" perceptions, larger angles near half ball hits are "B" perceptions and shots near 45 degrees are "C" perceptions. Stan often labeled these as 15, 30 and 45 degree perceptions as a quick way to reference them. CTE people think that all A shots can be pocketed with the exact same instructions and every shot will go CENTER POCKET until that perception doesn't work any more and you have to go to the B perceptions. So, to be clear, when you can't get a center pocket result with the A perception you can switch over to B and start getting that center pocket again. Inside and outside pivots make this possible, so that a 15 degree outside pivot is the same as a 30 degree inside pivot.

The above flies in the face of physics, geometry and plain common sense. You can't get different results unless you pivot differently or set up to the shot differently. But, not to have a closed mind, many of us were eager to understand how this could possibly work. The answer is a garbled, confused mish mash of terms like visual intelligence, stepping the cue ball, round barns and so on. The question cannot be answered because it doesn't really happen. What does happen, most likely, is that the player, over months and months of practice, finds a way to make the shots go even when they are lined up wrong. Some probably pivot different amounts depending on the shot (like mohrt in his videos) and others might simply set up a little different each time depending on the shot. In other words, and I've said this before, I think the more precisely you follow the CTE steps the worse your results will be because you will be getting the results you should get: Sometimes the balls will match up with the different perceptions and the ball will go in, and other times it won't. If you allow yourself a little breathing room, such as doing away with the rigid manual pivot in favor of more subjective methods like visual sweeps or stepping, then you will give your subconscious the ability to make the shot go.

You yourself have said many times that you "don't give a shit" how it works. It just does. Well, respectfully speaking, if you have that attitude then in my book you forfeit the right to have these kinds of discussions. The fact that it works for you is meaningless. That does not prove that the system is objective or that it works in any way close to what Stan says. It simply means that you shoot well with CTE as a pre-shot routine for whatever reason. Maybe it forces you to slow down or pay more attention or keeps you out of some other bad habit that lowers your pocketing percentage. Whatever it is, I'm quite sure that it isn't some phenomena that "was never meant to be" and that has never been identified in 20 years.

This is why I invented the jelly bean method "JBM" TRADEMARK (just kidding) to illustrate these fallacies. The method instructs you to put two jellybeans in your left pocket and tap on the pocket before you get into shooting position. You set up a series of 1/4 ball, 1/2 ball and full ball shots at various places on the table and then you put in some serious table time. Put in a minimum of 20 hours per week for 3 months and the JBM will have you shooting lights out. Just make sure you tap those jelly beans and, oh, one other thing. You MUST have a straight stroke in order for this to work. I contend that this method has improved my game immensely. It's like stealing. I don't really give a shit how the jelly beans are able to transfer their mojo to my cue but they do. The proof is that I play so much better using JBM. It has nothing to do with the fact that I put in many hours of structured practice. It all has to do with the jelly bean mojo even though I don't care what that is.

Do you understand the argument now?
If you think you are stealing with the JBM method then please please let’s play some.
 
Do you understand what I asked you to do which is a lot more simple than trying to decipher all of the above which is meaningless bullshit. If you do what I asked below and previously, your own arguments and questions will be answered.

Here you go once again:

Here's a question for you. OB is on the foot spot. CB is away from the side rail diamond closest to the side pocket10 3/4" from rail to back of the CB. (the side closest to you) on the head side of the table. How do you align the CB to the OB with CTE to pocket the OB in the right corner pocket? IOW, what do you see and how do you do it? It's a cut to the right. (actually doesn't
matter if it was a cut to the left with the same distance instructions on CB from opposite side rail)

Next: Same setup EXCEPT the CB is 14 3/4" from side rail to back of OB. What do you see and how do you do it?

Be explicit in your written instructions. (it's not complicated in the least and doesn't need much wording) I can do it in 10 words.

After finishing your post, did you take the shots? What happened? Go in or miss?

Unlike what I was trying to get you to do on something else, this will require no pivot. What are the visuals and setup using
CTE Pro1?
In Fractionese (if I understand your description) that's between a 3/4 and 1/2 ball overlap, closer to 1/2 ball - so center-to-edge thickened a little.

CTE seems built on the same framework. The Devil, as always, is in the thickening.

Personally I visualize the OB contact point and hit it with the CB, so what do I know?

pj
chgo
 
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Stan and his followers believe that CTE is objective and requires NO understanding of when a shot "looks" on. In other words, there is no subjectivity in aiming when the CTE steps are learned and applied precisely. Generally speaking, shallow angle shots are "A" perceptions, larger angles near half ball hits are "B" perceptions and shots near 45 degrees are "C" perceptions. Stan often labeled these as 15, 30 and 45 degree perceptions as a quick way to reference them. CTE people think that all A shots can be pocketed with the exact same instructions and every shot will go CENTER POCKET until that perception doesn't work any more and you have to go to the B perceptions. So, to be clear, when you can't get a center pocket result with the A perception you can switch over to B and start getting that center pocket again. Inside and outside pivots make this possible, so that a 15 degree outside pivot is the same as a 30 degree inside pivot.

The above flies in the face of physics, geometry and plain common sense. You can't get different results unless you pivot differently or set up to the shot differently. But, not to have a closed mind, many of us were eager to understand how this could possibly work. The answer is a garbled, confused mish mash of terms like visual intelligence, stepping the cue ball, round barns and so on. The question cannot be answered because it doesn't really happen. What does happen, most likely, is that the player, over months and months of practice, finds a way to make the shots go even when they are lined up wrong. Some probably pivot different amounts depending on the shot (like mohrt in his videos) and others might simply set up a little different each time depending on the shot. In other words, and I've said this before, I think the more precisely you follow the CTE steps the worse your results will be because you will be getting the results you should get: Sometimes the balls will match up with the different perceptions and the ball will go in, and other times it won't. If you allow yourself a little breathing room, such as doing away with the rigid manual pivot in favor of more subjective methods like visual sweeps or stepping, then you will give your subconscious the ability to make the shot go.

You yourself have said many times that you "don't give a shit" how it works. It just does. Well, respectfully speaking, if you have that attitude then in my book you forfeit the right to have these kinds of discussions. The fact that it works for you is meaningless. That does not prove that the system is objective or that it works in any way close to what Stan says. It simply means that you shoot well with CTE as a pre-shot routine for whatever reason. Maybe it forces you to slow down or pay more attention or keeps you out of some other bad habit that lowers your pocketing percentage. Whatever it is, I'm quite sure that it isn't some phenomena that "was never meant to be" and that has never been identified in 20 years.

This is why I invented the jelly bean method "JBM" TRADEMARK (just kidding) to illustrate these fallacies. The method instructs you to put two jellybeans in your left pocket and tap on the pocket before you get into shooting position. You set up a series of 1/4 ball, 1/2 ball and full ball shots at various places on the table and then you put in some serious table time. Put in a minimum of 20 hours per week for 3 months and the JBM will have you shooting lights out. Just make sure you tap those jelly beans and, oh, one other thing. You MUST have a straight stroke in order for this to work. I contend that this method has improved my game immensely. It's like stealing. I don't really give a shit how the jelly beans are able to transfer their mojo to my cue but they do. The proof is that I play so much better using JBM. It has nothing to do with the fact that I put in many hours of structured practice. It all has to do with the jelly bean mojo even though I don't care what that is.

Do you understand the argument now?
dan
I have to say
that is the most eloquent explanation of your position regarding cte
regardless if i agree or not as i try to be non committal
 
Yet you do waste your time hear so why not enter into a discussion? Is it more fun to just cause trouble?
 
Yet you do waste your time hear so why not enter into a discussion? Is it more fun to just cause trouble?
Why enter? I've been waiting for @Renegade_56 CAD and math equations that he said he can easily do to prove CTE works as advertised.

But then again, I'm just waiting for the next excuse he has why he won't back his claims up.
 
In Fractionese (if I understand your description) that's between a 3/4 and 1/2 ball overlap, closer to 1/2 ball - so center-to-edge thickened a little.

CTE seems built on the same framework. The Devil, as always, is in the thickening.

Personally I visualize the OB contact point and hit it with the CB, so what do I know?

pj
chgo
You've always been completely clueless and it never ends. You are the ORIGINATOR of clueless going back 25 years. There is no thickening or thinning in the visual. It is as specific and sharp as looking at the huge "E" on an optometrist eye chart. You either see it or you don't.

Finding the contact point on the OB is simple. What part of the CB contact point do you hit it with and how do you get them to match up? Does it jump out at you? How many lizard head bobs do you have to do along with an Ali foot shuffle to try homing in on it before missing the shot? It's like clown corner when you're at the table.
 
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If you think you are stealing with the JBM method then please please let’s play some.
Haha! They're WORD WARRIORS, not real-life head to head pool players especially when it comes to a nice hefty little chunk of change at the end of it. It's "Oh, lets just play for fun and knock some balls around. Can't we just be friends?"
 
dan
I have to say
that is the most eloquent explanation of your position regarding cte
regardless if i agree or not as i try to be non committal
You've been dazzled by the expert wordsmithing of obfuscation. Nothing more...nothing less.
 
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Believing that is the most important part of CTE.

pj
chgo
Not believing it as well as not KNOWING how to align it is what keeps you clueless and in business for others who
fall for your crap.
Can a very intelligent person also be an idiot? You prove that question out every day on this forum and others for two decades.
 
Haha! They're WORD WARRIORS, not real-life head to head pool players especially when it comes to a nice hefty little chunk of change at the end of it. It's "Oh, lets just play for fun and knock some balls around. Can't we just be friends?"
But obviously he would be stealing. I’d pay to get robbed by the JBM.
 
Believing that is the most important part of CTE.
Not believing it as well as not KNOWING how to align it is what keeps you clueless and in business for others who fall for your crap.
Can a very intelligent person also be an idiot? You prove that question out every day on this forum and others for two decades.
And pointing that out triggers you.

Hmm…

pj
chgo
 
And pointing that out triggers you.

Hmm…

pj
chgo
It's the other way around. Pointing out to what I said triggers you. You've been outta control for over two decades.
Glad to see it has eaten into your brain and life for so long and has made it your life on forums.
 
Do you understand what I asked you to do which is a lot more simple than trying to decipher all of the above which is meaningless bullshit.
Do you really not understand what I wrote? Should I ask bbb to explain it to you? You read a perfectly reasonable post that I wrote because you said you didn't know what the debate is about. Your reply in bold does nothing to bring us closer to a common understanding.

If you do what I asked below and previously, your own arguments and questions will be answered.
As you would say, bullshit.

Here you go once again:

Here's a question for you. OB is on the foot spot. CB is away from the side rail diamond closest to the side pocket10 3/4" from rail to back of the CB. (the side closest to you) on the head side of the table. How do you align the CB to the OB with CTE to pocket the OB in the right corner pocket? IOW, what do you see and how do you do it? It's a cut to the right. (actually doesn't
matter if it was a cut to the left with the same distance instructions on CB from opposite side rail)

Next: Same setup EXCEPT the CB is 14 3/4" from side rail to back of OB. What do you see and how do you do it?

Be explicit in your written instructions. (it's not complicated in the least and doesn't need much wording) I can do it in 10 words.

After finishing your post, did you take the shots? What happened? Go in or miss?

Unlike what I was trying to get you to do on something else, this will require no pivot. What are the visuals and setup using
CTE Pro1?
This is all meaningless bullshit.
 
aside from the JBM part, none of it is true or really relevent to CTE or common CTE users, but he has a good imagination.
More worthless blather. Please back up your comments with line by line examples, if you would.

I just remembered you're the guy who said he could prove CTE works on CAD if you wanted to... you just don't want to.
 
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