The 9ball championships and winner break excitement.

S

smoochie

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Hey guys, listen I've said this before and I'm going to say it again. 9ball is an offensive game and it should ALWAYS be a winner break game. The alternative break nonsense must go immediately, we are in trouble as is with the peeps saying that pool is boring, adding an alternative break to it makes it even ultra-boring. So please, in rotation games let's always keep them a winner break matches!

We saw today that even if a guy is down 9-1 he still could come back due to winner break which adds a lot of excitement into the game... i.e. you don't give up ever!!! which is nice. Even as a gambler you'd still be excited about watching your horse even if he's down a few or even lots of games!! rotation games like 9ball should always be winner break because of this simple fact, ppl never give up and always feel they could do some damage when they're at the table... 5 pack, 6 pack, etc.

Listen I do understand the alternative break but it should be ONLY for 1pocket and maybe 8ball....but don't let the rotation games be boring by making an alternative break, if you do this and one player is 7-2 ahead in a race to 9, you could literally forget it! the guy with some bad rolls who has a score of 2 will instantly give up, it's so boring and unfair.

I just wanted to emphasize here to whoever is responsible for the tournament play!! keep this in your mind! 9ball is an offensive game and always will be. The alternative break doesn't work in offensive games and only makes them boring...well unless it's for Mosconi because it's a race of 5,, maybe a race of 5 is fine? I dunno it's debatable. Maybe even a race to 5 a winner break would still be better? I'm gonna have to think about it.

You could lose 5 to zero in a winner break 9ball match, but yea maybe it's still exciting? I don't know maybe it is. Yea the hell with alternative break is all what I'm trying to say :)
 
In every other sport the opposing team/player gets a chance to respond after a score. Imagine in football Mahomes got to stay on the field when he scored a touchdown or you had to break Federer's serve for a chance to serve yourself.

It doesn't make sense to me. You could literally lose the lag and then not shoot again. How is that an exciting match? Sure its great when a guy runs a bunch of packages but there are just as many great matches in alternate break formats.
 
nicksaint26 said:
In every other sport the opposing team/player gets a chance to respond after a score. Imagine in football Mahomes got to stay on the field when he scored a touchdown or you had to break Federer's serve for a chance to serve yourself.

It doesn't make sense to me. You could literally lose the lag and then not shoot again. How is that an exciting match? Sure its great when a guy runs a bunch of packages but there are just as many great matches in alternate break formats.
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You're looking at it in the wrong way. Comparing tennis to 9ball is just a big mistake. I've heard this argument before and its how you got stuck into this mindset. You tell yourself oh imagine he runs out on me every time and I lose without shooting. Well in pool it could happen but not that many times, you'll still get your chance and if the pool-gods are with you then you can do damage as much as your opponent could do damage to you.

You ask any pro player if they prefer a winner-break on 9ball or alternative, everybody will tell you that winner break is the way to go because they know that if they get rolling they could put packs in.

Here's what I will ask you. Obviously, I don't know your skill/level in the game but if you were behind a pro player say 8-2 in a game of 9ball a race to 9. Would you ever make a come-back in an alternative break or a winner break, do you feel that you got a glimpse of hope of getting back if it was an alternative break? the answer is NEVER, however, if its a winner break you'd be sitting on the edge of your chair waiting hungry to get to the table.

I know players who were behind 7-3 on a race to 9 on alternative break and they look already defeated. They have no drive to get back to the table because they know that they already lost.

Tennis is different than pool and pls don't compare apples to oranges. If you keep looking at other sports then you'll be stuck in the same rabbit hole forever. just look at it from a billiards perspective and how dominant the break is on pool. Always consider how rolls & luck in layouts play a huge part in the game. Having luck & break factor in pool is not like how tennis & serve is. The luck factor in the game of 9ball break is huge which is why in an alternative break if your opponent is ahead by 3 you're already lost unless you get super super super lucky because SKILL will not help you in an alternative break, its pointless to play 9ball alternative break I laugh when I see people do it.
 
smoochie said:
You're looking at it in the wrong way. Comparing tennis to 9ball is just a big mistake. I've heard this argument before and its how you got stuck into this mindset. You tell yourself oh imagine he runs out on me every time and I lose without shooting. Well in pool it could happen but not that many times, you'll still get your chance and if the pool-gods are with you then you can do damage as much as your opponent could do damage to you.

You ask any pro player if they prefer a winner-break on 9ball or alternative, everybody will tell you that winner break is the way to go because they know that if they get rolling they could put packs in.

Here's what I will ask you. Obviously, I don't know your skill/level in the game but if you were behind a pro player say 8-2 in a game of 9ball a race to 9. Would you ever make a come-back in an alternative break or a winner break, do you feel that you got a glimpse of hope of getting back if it was an alternative break? the answer is NEVER, however, if its a winner break you'd be sitting on the edge of your chair waiting hungry to get to the table.

I know players who were behind 7-3 on a race to 9 on alternative break and they look already defeated. They have no drive to get back to the table because they know that they already lost.

Tennis is different than pool and pls don't compare apples to oranges. If you keep looking at other sports then you'll be stuck in the same rabbit hole forever. just look at it from a billiards perspective and how dominant the break is on pool. Always consider how rolls & luck in layouts play a huge part in the game. Having luck & break factor in pool is not like how tennis & serve is. The luck factor in the game of 9ball break is huge which is why in an alternative break if your opponent is ahead by 3 you're already lost unless you get super super super lucky because SKILL will not help you in an alternative break, its pointless to play 9ball alternative break I laugh when I see people do it.
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There were a bunch of matches in the recent 10 ball event here in Vegas where a player was down multiple games (4-5) and they either came back and tied it or won so it happens all the time in alternate break
 
smoochie said:
Hey guys, listen I've said this before and I'm going to say it again. 9ball is an offensive game and it should ALWAYS be a winner break game. The alternative break nonsense must go immediately, we are in trouble as is with the peeps saying that pool is boring, adding an alternative break to it makes it even ultra-boring. So please, in rotation games let's always keep them a winner break matches!

We saw today that even if a guy is down 9-1 he still could come back due to winner break which adds a lot of excitement into the game... i.e. you don't give up ever!!! which is nice. Even as a gambler you'd still be excited about watching your horse even if he's down a few or even lots of games!! rotation games like 9ball should always be winner break because of this simple fact, ppl never give up and always feel they could do some damage when they're at the table... 5 pack, 6 pack, etc.

Listen I do understand the alternative break but it should be ONLY for 1pocket and maybe 8ball....but don't let the rotation games be boring by making an alternative break, if you do this and one player is 7-2 ahead in a race to 9, you could literally forget it! the guy with some bad rolls who has a score of 2 will instantly give up, it's so boring and unfair.

I just wanted to emphasize here to whoever is responsible for the tournament play!! keep this in your mind! 9ball is an offensive game and always will be. The alternative break doesn't work in offensive games and only makes them boring...well unless it's for Mosconi because it's a race of 5,, maybe a race of 5 is fine? I dunno it's debatable. Maybe even a race to 5 a winner break would still be better? I'm gonna have to think about it.

You could lose 5 to zero in a winner break 9ball match, but yea maybe it's still exciting? I don't know maybe it is. Yea the hell with alternative break is all what I'm trying to say :)
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9 ball is also most exciting when a player gets on a roll..It is a momentum game..
I like to see a player put together packs...alternate break shuts down momentum
 
Nice thread. I like winner breaks unless players rack their own or for each other, in which case I think there is a strong case for alternate break. Anytime a referee is racking the balls, the rack mechanic issue goes away.

I really don't see any parallel to tennis, in which a good server may regularly win five out of every six service games against an equal opponent. Per At Large stats, the breaker wins about 55% of the racks, so the break is not such a huge advantage. Pro pool almost never saw a need for alternate break until the rack mechanics came along.
 
nicksaint26 said:
In every other sport the opposing team/player gets a chance to respond after a score. Imagine in football Mahomes got to stay on the field when he scored a touchdown or you had to break Federer's serve for a chance to serve yourself.

It doesn't make sense to me. You could literally lose the lag and then not shoot again. How is that an exciting match? Sure its great when a guy runs a bunch of packages but there are just as many great matches in alternate break formats.
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Really! Ask the buffalo bills about that!
 
I don’t feel as strongly about it as some people seem to, mainly because I don’t think it makes as big a difference as people think. Lots of winner breaks matches see back and forth scoring, and lots of alternate break matches have long unanswered wins.

I do love how winner breaks makes control of the table so important, and how freezing an opponent out creates tension and pressure for them to come back and do the same. But I also love the back-and-forth of alternate break, where you know the opponent is soon going to get their chance, so… 🤷‍♂️

I guess my preference is for winner breaks when the conditions are tough, maybe a little tougher than this World Pool Championship.
 
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An amazing result from probability and statistics is that pretty much any format that gives no more than N breaks to one player in a race to N games results in the same chance for either player to win the match. Winner breaks, loser breaks, alternate breaks, winner of the lag breaks N times and then the loser gets all remaining breaks -- all of these result in the same match probability.

So in some sense all those formats are fair. Some are just more exciting or better theater.

This ignores psychological factors which may or may not affect the players.
 
BRussell said:
I don’t feel as strongly about it as some people seem to
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I don't really care either and I'll watch or play whatever the organisers have decided. I just "argue" from a logical viewpoint. As with most logic in a real world context, there are differing valid perspectives based on inherent assumptions. The discussion does get repetitive but, for me anyway, it's healthy.
 
I relish the glory of raining packages where one mistake can take you from 10-3 to losing the match. Especially given that breaking and running out the full set is not prevalent.
 
nicksaint26 said:
In every other sport the opposing team/player gets a chance to respond after a score. Imagine in football Mahomes got to stay on the field when he scored a touchdown or you had to break Federer's serve for a chance to serve yourself.

It doesn't make sense to me. You could literally lose the lag and then not shoot again. How is that an exciting match? Sure its great when a guy runs a bunch of packages but there are just as many great matches in alternate break formats.
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The winner break format. It's the way it's always been in pool. I think the world pool league was the first one in 2002 that started the change to alternate breaks in some events. And the mosconi was always that way, even when it was a race to 7.
I like winner breaks, cause its in your own hands to change the result. I agree with the op it's definitely the most exciting, as your never out of it. Though you could argue that, it's as much as where, and how the balls are being racked. That will dictate, running packs of racks and lay outs etc... Not to mention a bit of luck along the way, always helps!!
 
The alternating break, the game ball on the spot and all of those sorts of things come from the lopsided payouts.
If the payouts were more uniform there wouldn't be an issue because more top players would be getting paid a better
wage. Those below them would be saving money to get in events and practicing.
 
To each his own. When I watch professionals play I want them to play under the most difficult conditions. Mechanical racks, tightest pockets, call shots and alternate breaks (so they can guaranteed to be on ice during the match). This is the reason I like 10 ball under these types of format. When I am looking for entertainment, I watch 9 ball, short races, spot shots etc.
 
Not gonna lie… I’ve never been so excited as I was yesterday watching Shane hop on the freight train and come back on Mika when he was down 10-3. If it was alternate break Shane would have had about a 0.001% chance of coming back! I enjoyed watching the winner break format. I bet while mika was watching the comeback from his chair, he was probably wishing it was alternate break 😂😂 but on the other hand Mika wouldn’t have got that big lead if it wasn’t winner break
 
nicksaint26 said:
In every other sport the opposing team/player gets a chance to respond after a score. Imagine in football Mahomes got to stay on the field when he scored a touchdown or you had to break Federer's serve for a chance to serve yourself.
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Not in overtime.
 
Smutzc said:
Not gonna lie… I’ve never been so excited as I was yesterday watching Shane hop on the freight train and come back on Mika when he was down 10-3. If it was alternate break Shane would have had about a 0.001% chance of coming back! I enjoyed watching the winner break format. I bet while mika was watching the comeback from his chair, he was probably wishing it was alternate break 😂😂 but on the other hand Mika wouldn’t have got that big lead if it wasn’t winner break
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Correct! (y)
 
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