Hand flip's and such!

[maha]

and then the guy will say you sharked me by moving so i would think about that while shooting, and you know what if you get sharked all the time all you are doing is letting yourself get sharked by any action you can find.

 

[buckshotshoey]

Personally anything he does in his chair (to a point) wouldn't bother me. It's the exchange he had with Shane rhat made him sound like a whiny little bitch. Shane had nothing to do with anything that happened. So why even direct anything toward him? That's why Shane called a timeout.

Shane and Mika went the same direction during the time out. I wonder what was said to each other off camera... if anything?

 

[JazzyJeff87]

I wasn't trying to determine if the ball position was makeable before and after, I was simply trying to see if the 9 ball was in the exact same spot before and after. I put a pencil to my screen at the top of the 9 ball when it was on the rack. Then jumped forward. Top of ball in the same spot. Then repeated for all four sides of the ball. The curved camera would not impact this type of analysis.

In fact I just re-created the analysis using a white circle page protector (like we use on the table.) The video is below:

What’s up with the 1 ball? I don’t recall it moving around like that

 

[rexus31]

I don't get the intense hatred a lot of people have for Mika. I really don't think he deserves it. In my book he doesn't even crack the top 10 of most annoying pool players. If you count amateurs, he'd not even been in consideration of such a title. I've met him only a couple of times. Didn't really get to chat much with him, but he seemed nice enough. A bit reserved maybe, but I really couldn't say too much one way or the other. I didn't see him do anything bad in watching him play for a couple of days live, and I havent' seen anything too shocking on video either. A bit of whining, big deal! Jesus, you guys ever been to a players meeting? People actually start to argue and complain before the playing even starts! During tournaments there are sometimes loud arguments and tantrums and every childish sharking move ever invented. I don't think I have ever been to a tournament where there wasn't an incident at least two times worse than anything Mika has ever done, and these are National championships and other big tournaments like that, not weekly bar box leagues. And then there is the "monster" Mika Immonen: How dare he slightly move his hands in the chair and when standing up on his own inning? I have to ask, are you guys playing in a wax museum or something? Try playing a tournament with the tables close together, where you actually have to mind other players on every shot, and every inning! I have to say that the people most likely to be annoyed, are also the ones that are most difficult to deal with in a tournament. I've had people complain about me slightly moving my foot while sitting in the chair, not even in their line of sight. What do you say to something like this? I can't freeze my entire body for 10 minutes while you shoot, it's physically impossible. Sometimes you have to adjust your posture a bit and you try to do it when they're not over the ball or not even looking in your direction. Somehow they're still annoyed by it! These people belong in a padded cell, not in a pool hall.

Mika's antics were not befitting a PROFESSIONAL. You referencing amateur events and players is irrelevant. Hand flipping and squirming in his chair aside, there was no reason to engage Shane after the rack regarding the 9B being moved other than to derail Shane's mindset. Poor sportsmanship, IMO. Did you see Shane pulling the same moves when Mika was putting a package on him the first half of the match? Shane sat there and took it, like a professional, and waited for his chance.

 

[buckshotshoey]

So what is the official rule? Did the ref screw up? Or was it his discretion? I did my own limited analysis and the 9 seemed to be placed in the exact spot it was in.

 

[rexus31]

So what is the official rule? Did the ref screw up? Or was it his discretion? I did my own limited analysis and the 9 seemed to be placed in the exact spot it was in.

I'm of the opinion the marker he had couldn't be used in this scenario because the 9B was on the template.

 

[CaleAYS]

Mika is a diva. Always has been. It’s a bummer cause I like his style of play but his attitude and antics makes him impossible to route for. One of my favorite matches from the TAR days was Shane going to Mika’s home room when Mika was basically at the top of his game and absolutely giving him the business in a race to 100. Watching Mika sit in agony and tilted while getting ran over for 3 days was oddly satisfying.

 

[Poolmanis]

Pool gods and Karma got some proper punishment to Mika´s bad behaviour. Shane came back and won.
I am Finnish and I was cheering to SVB while watching because all act.

 

[Milkman]

Two cubes of chalk placed at the sides of the object ball don't interfere with the rack when it is removed, this is how ball marking was done before fancy markers. Just place them at a 90° angle to intersect the center of the ball and it goes back exactly in place.

 

[Cornerman]

Can someone explain exactly what a hand flip is?

I showed a photo in this thread

 

[skogstokig]

Mika is a diva. Always has been. It’s a bummer cause I like his style of play but his attitude and antics makes him impossible to route for. One of my favorite matches from the TAR days was Shane going to Mika’s home room when Mika was basically at the top of his game and absolutely giving him the business in a race to 100. Watching Mika sit in agony and tilted while getting ran over for 3 days was oddly satisfying.

i'm with ya, he plays pool the way i like it but his demeanor is too poor (and as it seems, annually degrading) for me to root for him

 

[maha]

im glad i am way past making a living at pool. but if you let anything bother you from your opponent you have no chance in the pool world.

once its known, you are going to get it from all sides.

 

[7stud]

I showed a photo in this thread

So a "hand flip" is when you gesture while you tell someone to keep their f'ing chalk off the rail while you're at the table? Is the "chalk slide" also a known sharking move?

 

[Cornerman]

So a "hand flip" is when you gesture while you tell someone to keep their f'ing chalk off the rail while you're at the table? Is the "chalk slide" also a known sharking move?

I can’t tell if you’re serious. I’m out.

 

[MattPoland]

I'm of the opinion the marker he had couldn't be used in this scenario because the 9B was on the template.

Just for science sake, I bought a marker and tried it out. My finding was that a marker is already something needing familiarity to use. First you need to steady the ball as you apply it. Second you need to steady the marker as you remove the ball or else it slides. So there is a factor where an inexperienced ref might be worse off using it without training.

But removing a ball on the template is very doable. The hardest part is steadying the ball with your finger as you put the marker against the ball. You can wiggle it about as you slide the marker against it. And that’s no different than any ball marker usage (template or not). But that can be executed with reasonable steadiness to “good enough” precision even if you’re not perfect at it. (Maybe freehand is equivalently accurate)

But with a ball on the template you can no problem put the marker on top of the template and against the object ball the same as if there was no template. That was no increment more difficult than if you do it anywhere else on the felt. Applying the marker was easy. The harder part is removing the template. You need to keep the marker firm as you slide the template out. And it gives resistance. But with a steady hand you can absolutely get it out. And then slide the object ball back into the marker.

 

[Cuebuddy]

So a "hand flip" is when you gesture while you tell someone to keep their f'ing chalk off the rail while you're at the table? Is the "chalk slide" also a known sharking move?

To me a hand flip is showing dissatisfaction with many things.

Where you or your opponent has left you to shoot from.
A bad roll you have received.
A good roll your opponent received.

Similar to shaking your head sideways.

Cuebuddy>>> Draws the line when hand flipping and shaking your head at the same time.

 

[rexus31]

Just for science sake, I bought a marker and tried it out. My finding was that a marker is already something needing familiarity to use. First you need to steady the ball as you apply it. Second you need to steady the marker as you remove the ball or else it slides. So there is a factor where an inexperienced ref might be worse off using it without training.

But removing a ball on the template is very doable. The hardest part is steadying the ball with your finger as you put the marker against the ball. You can wiggle it about as you slide the marker against it. And that’s no different than any ball marker usage (template or not). But that can be executed with reasonable steadiness to “good enough” precision even if you’re not perfect at it. (Maybe freehand is equivalently accurate)

But with a ball on the template you can no problem put the marker on top of the template and against the object ball the same as if there was no template. That was no increment more difficult than if you do it anywhere else on the felt. Applying the marker was easy. The harder part is removing the template. You need to keep the marker firm as you slide the template out. And it gives resistance. But with a steady hand you can absolutely get it out. And then slide the object ball back into the marker.
View attachment 637802

Thanks for giving this a go. It looks like your experiment was with a Magic Rack which is substantially thinner than the Outsville racks being used in the aforementioned tournament and much more slick. I do not think it is doable on those racks without a marker with raised positioning provisions to allow for easy removal of the template. It is a delicate process, which IMO, leaves more room for error vs slightly lifting the object ball, removing the rack and placing the ball.

 

[SlateMan]

What’s up with the 1 ball? I don’t recall it moving around like that

Okay, that started to freak me out as I used the original video in this thread. I think what we are seeing is a simple mistake I made when recording. I waited till just before the ref appears and put my circle on my monitor. Then I was hitting the cursor forward and back button to move 5 seconds at a time (to cut down the file size and to instantly see a before an after). Remember the white circle was place correctly. The paused video in the beginning when to right before the other balls stopped rolling (the six ball also moves) and to the ref and then to right after the ref.

I was focused so much on the nine ball I did not even notice these other balls moving around!

Good catch!

 

[AF pool guy]

The ref is very quick to get to the template after the break. See the pink and brown are still moving when he gets there.

 

[maha]

why would you need a marker. the ref should just put it where he thinks it goes.
its the same for both players so works out even. what has pool come to where they argue over a an exact placement of a ball. or someone flips his hand.