Ebony question

[bbb]

i found this from a guitar woodworking blog
"from what Todd (exotic wood brokers) told me, Asia ebony is similar to maccasar, but with some green in it, and turns a little muddy with an oil finish.

maccasar ebony is black, brown, and sometimes has some gray in it. Makes a very nice looking fretboard.

Gaboon is black ebony, and very hard/durible (as is most ebony)

Madagascar ebony, from what I've read (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is the blackest ebony out there, even more so than Gaboon (which sometimes has a few brown marks in it).

Hope that helps, and I'm going to be using a gaboon board on the project I'm working on now."
and here is some more info

11 Different Types of Ebony Wood (Diospyros crassiflora)

Quicklist: Types of Ebony Wood Ceylon ebony African ebony Gaboon ebony Macassar ebony Pale moon ebony Coromandel ebony Mauritius ebony Mun ebony Myrtle ebony Queensland ebony Brazilian ebony Below we explain each type in more

www.homestratosphere.com

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

Nice ebony article. I did notice there was no mention of Madagascar ebony (Diospyros perrieri) though. Maybe because it is listed on CITES Appendix II and no longer commercially available.

 

[7stud]

It may be "boring" to some but natural color, coal black ebony commands a premium in some circles of collecting cues.

Malagasy ebony, formally known as Madagascar ebony, imo is the finest and one of the best workable ebony in the world. No longer commercially available and can generally only be found now on the secondary market. This ebony can be and has been confused by some, because of the name similarity, as macassar ebony.

Macassar ebony is a whole different animal in the ebony family of woods and is still a very good cue wood. Some pcs. can be almost solid and dark but the most sought after are striped with brown and golden streaks.

Do you happen to know what type of ebony was used in the pictures I posted earlier? It was advertised as "black and white ebony".

 

[Dave-Kat]

Like the OP's Coker. Definitly different. I have had a few nice ebony customs over the years. Present player is a ebony 06' Tom Coker I have had for a few years. Looks black but under lights but the front has some light figure. The butt sleeve is very dark with only a little brown in one area. Excellent quality and feel.

 

[Laura Friedman]

Thanks everyone. Ok, here’s a tough question: is there any price point paid at which you’d demand the maker repair or replace this cue (bleeding points and scratches), or which you’d say it’s ok as is?

 

[GoldCrown]

Check out the three veneers below the brown wood--in the picture of the handle oriented vertically. If you zoom in, you can see that the black veneer bled into the green veneer. It may look fine at normal viewing distances, but I would not be happy about that. Sorry to point out a flaw.

I happen to have a cue with bleeding veneers in the points. It's a nice cue that I bought used, and I could see the bleeding veneers in the pictures that the seller sent me, so I knew what I was getting. But, if I ordered that cue directly from the builder, first of all I would be shocked that he let that cue out of his shop, then the disappointment would set in. I don't see the veneers anymore when I play with the cue, but I know that the bleeding veneers are there, and I would have to point them out to a buyer if I ever decided to sell the cue.

Here's some more ebony:

View attachment 644526

View attachment 644527

Nice looking cue. I made a few pens with Black&White ebony. The blank was 2tone dark brown with a light contrasting color. Not slightly black.

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

Do you happen to know what type of ebony was used in the pictures I posted earlier? It was advertised as "black and white ebony".

That's exactly what it looks like. Generally comes from the SE Asia area, Cambodia, Laos, I believe.
Good stuff. Used in a few cues I've built. Has an endless variety of figure with the black and yellow (white).

 

[fastone371]

My Ebony cues look black until you put them under very bright lights, then you can see a little wood grain in some areas. I would rather be able to see some wood grain than to think that maybe I have a cue painted black rather than Ebony.

 

[jtompilot]

Hi. I just received a custom cue that I ordered. The forearm has Ebony. I noticed that one part of the Ebony is not true black, but a very dark, grained brown which is clearly visible in bright light. Is this considered normal, or a flaw? I really don’t know much about Ebony. Thanks.

Coos cues built me a cue that’s as black as I’ve seen but your cue looks cool.

 

[jasonlaus]

I like ebony, wait, what's this question about?

 

[alphadog]

Thanks everyone. Ok, here’s a tough question: is there any price point paid at which you’d demand the maker repair or replace this cue (bleeding points and scratches), or which you’d say it’s ok as is?

The answer isn't what any of us would feel justifiable , the point is what you feel.
You seemed very happy with your cue until some joker criticized it. I like everyone else who has posted here feel you have a very nice looking cue.

I might add , you have a 1 of a kind piece of art that is handmade. There has never been a cue made that under a microscope is 100% perfect.

 

[bbb]

The answer isn't what any of us would feel justifiable , the point is what you feel.
You seemed very happy with your cue until some joker criticized it. I like everyone else who has posted here feel you have a very nice looking cue.

mr barenbrugge is not "some joker".
he is a highly respected cuemaker whose educated eye spotted some scratches in the finish.
he deserves more respect in my opinion
and i dont feel his remarks were made maliciously
jmho

 

[alphadog]

mr barenbrugge is not "some joker".
he is a highly respected cuemaker whose educated eye spotted some scratches in the finish.
he deserves more respect in my opinion
and i dont feel his remarks were made maliciously
jmho

Larry ,I wasn't actually referring to Barenbrugge's
observation and the way he tactfully pointed it out.
Also I believe you missed the actual point of my post... The owner has to decide if they are happy with "their" cue.

 

[bbb]

Larry ,I wasn't actually referring to Barenbrugge's
observation and the way he tactfully pointed it out.
Also I believe you missed the actual point of my post... The owner has to decide if they are happy with "their" cue.

he was the one that made the comment and you were the one that to me implied he was "some joker"
i agree happiness like beauty is in the eyes of the beholder......

 

[Poolplaya9]

Hi. I just received a custom cue that I ordered. The forearm has Ebony. I noticed that one part of the Ebony is not true black, but a very dark, grained brown which is clearly visible in bright light. Is this considered normal, or a flaw? I really don’t know much about Ebony. Thanks.

Thanks everyone. Ok, here’s a tough question: is there any price point paid at which you’d demand the maker repair or replace this cue (bleeding points and scratches), or which you’d say it’s ok as is?

As others have explained ebony comes with varying amounts of brownish grain pattern ranging from essentially none at all to a ton although it is generally both preferred and expected that it appears to be black and not show any grain except in pretty bright light unless otherwise noted or you are going for that look (this prevailing preference is cosmetic only, the wood is just as good either way). I think I am understanding you to say that yours meets these parameters so it does not appear to be outside the realm of acceptability of what most people would generally be ok with, but if it shows up even is lesser lighting and that just isn't your preference you probably wouldn't be out of line for bringing it up to the cue maker since that wouldn't be the typical expectation if it wasn't previously mentioned.

Neither here nor there but like most I don't generally prefer to see any grain in ebony unless I was intentionally going for that look (being able to see a little in bright light is ok) but I actually really like how and where the grain on yours is showing up just below the joint. It looks great and looks as if it were intentionally planned that way even though it probably wasn't and just happened to work out nicely where a nice pattern showed up in just the right place. I would have to see in person but it actually looks cool enough that if I had the choice between yours or the identical cue without any grain pattern even in bright light I think in this case I might actually choose yours as it adds just the right character in just the right place and looks real nice in the pics.

As far as the sanding scratches go, ideally there wouldn't be any and whether or not they are a big enough deal to address with the cue maker depends on just how noticeable they are along with just how much they will or won't bother you knowing that they are there. It is hard to tell from the pictures how noticeable those actually are in person. I would say that if you have to kind of look close for them and would never notice them in your everyday handling of the cue then most people would probably not find it to be a big enough deal to want to mess with, but if they are fairly noticeable or if it will really bother you then you would not be out of line for addressing it with the cue maker. Yes you would probably be pickier on a really expensive cue, but for the most part I don't think the price point is a factor here for something like this. Those scratches are either within the range of acceptability or they aren't anywhere within a price point at least $500+ either side of what you paid for the cue.

As for the bleeding veneers, none is ideal but a little that isn't very noticeable isn't all that uncommon. Whether you should address it or not also depends on how bad it is and how bad it will bother you and again I don't think the exact price point is too much of a factor here within at least $500 either side of what you paid. The only real "bleeding" I see is more or less just one spot into the green veneer on the ring work just below the brown wood in the butt sleeve as seen in the picture below. I don't think most people would consider that little spot to be particularly abnormal or too much of a big deal.

Google Photos

photos.google.com

 

[hang-the-9]

Only the absolute highest grade ebony pieces are truly jet black. Some brown is expected unless you spent a fortune on the wood

I actually picked out my Ebony exactly because it was not pure black, I don't think it's the high quality of the wood but rather the exact species of the wood, and it depends on what the person is looking for in the grain. I went with a non-black ebony because everyone and their brother has a dark black ebony cue or painted cue and I wanted something with a bit more distinction while still making design and matching a carbon shaft well. Mine was an African Ebony, has quite a bit of grain in it.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

Anyone know the deal with piano ebony? Painted? Dyed? Always uniformly jet black black in my experience -- even after intense wear and aging. Whatever the piano makers are doing/using, it sure is durable.

The observations here regarding the vagaries inherent in natural wood are right on. Ours would be a very boring existence without the differences necessary to distinguish each of us. I cannot Imagine living in a true "cookie cutter" world -- just attempting such invokes significant cognitive discord. Some time back, some old cat said it perfectly: "variety is the spice of life". The distinction of primary importance is celebrated in French as "vive la difference".

I learned long ago the folly of attempting to dissuade one from their personal preferences. Others like what they like. How I judge, or whether I approve, the choices of others is mainly significant only to me. What is critically important, however, is we recognize that, while we do have the right to approve or disapprove, such a right does not clothe us with the authority to impose our choices on others.

The largest challenges are in correctly determining our own preferences and making choices which will withstand the test of time.

 

[Laura Friedman]

As others have explained ebony comes with varying amounts of brownish grain pattern ranging from essentially none at all to a ton although it is generally both preferred and expected that it appears to be black and not show any grain except in pretty bright light unless otherwise noted or you are going for that look (this prevailing preference is cosmetic only, the wood is just as good either way). I think I am understanding you to say that yours meets these parameters so it does not appear to be outside the realm of acceptability of what most people would generally be ok with, but if it shows up even is lesser lighting and that just isn't your preference you probably wouldn't be out of line for bringing it up to the cue maker since that wouldn't be the typical expectation if it wasn't previously mentioned.

Neither here nor there but like most I don't generally prefer to see any grain in ebony unless I was intentionally going for that look (being able to see a little in bright light is ok) but I actually really like how and where the grain on yours is showing up just below the joint. It looks great and looks as if it were intentionally planned that way even though it probably wasn't and just happened to work out nicely where a nice pattern showed up in just the right place. I would have to see in person but it actually looks cool enough that if I had the choice between yours or the identical cue without any grain pattern even in bright light I think in this case I might actually choose yours as it adds just the right character in just the right place and looks real nice in the pics.

As far as the sanding scratches go, ideally there wouldn't be any and whether or not they are a big enough deal to address with the cue maker depends on just how noticeable they are along with just how much they will or won't bother you knowing that they are there. It is hard to tell from the pictures how noticeable those actually are in person. I would say that if you have to kind of look close for them and would never notice them in your everyday handling of the cue then most people would probably not find it to be a big enough deal to want to mess with, but if they are fairly noticeable or if it will really bother you then you would not be out of line for addressing it with the cue maker. Yes you would probably be pickier on a really expensive cue, but for the most part I don't think the price point is a factor here for something like this. Those scratches are either within the range of acceptability or they aren't anywhere within a price point at least $500+ either side of what you paid for the cue.

As for the bleeding veneers, none is ideal but a little that isn't very noticeable isn't all that uncommon. Whether you should address it or not also depends on how bad it is and how bad it will bother you and again I don't think the exact price point is too much of a factor here within at least $500 either side of what you paid. The only real "bleeding" I see is more or less just one spot into the green veneer on the ring work just below the brown wood in the butt sleeve as seen in the picture below. I don't think most people would consider that little spot to be particularly abnormal or too much of a big deal.

Google Photos

photos.google.com

Thanks for the advice. What do you mean by 500+ either side of what I paid? Do you mean if the cue cost more then $500?

 

[Poolplaya9]

Thanks for the advice. What do you mean by 500+ either side of what I paid? Do you mean if the cue cost more then $500?

You had asked "is there any price point paid at which you’d demand the maker repair or replace this cue (bleeding points and scratches), or which you’d say it’s ok as is?". Essentially what I was saying was that it is either acceptable or not for anything in the general price range of what you paid (for at least $500 either side). Yeah maybe for a $100 cue you would have even lower expectations and be less picky accordingly, and maybe for a $2000 cue you would have even higher expectations and be pickier about even the very tiniest of things, but for anywhere around the general area of what you paid (so say $300, $800, $1300 as a couple of examples that encompass that general range) the answer on what would be acceptable or not would be about the same in my opinion, and I noted about what I thought they reasonably were for that range of cue (which essentially is that it should be pretty darn good, but a very tiny imperfection or two is probably acceptable if they are truly tiny and hard to notice and if they don't bother you too much).