Is there such a thing as natural talent? Some say yes, I do not think there is?

[WilliamK]

I wouldn't call it a Natural Talent when the difference between winning and losing is the ability to play at 100% of your ability, and with some luck.

I used to practice with a guy who made a 100 break at snooker every day and played nursery cannons until the cows came home. But in a match against anyone who even had a little of his ability, he could not fire.

Testosterone can be handy but 6 weeks of radio/chemo can kill that and more.

 

[Tin Man]

Haven't read the entire thread.

I think if you put anyone with average hand eye cordination in an isolated room with a pool table,for 8 hours a day, with proper instruction and critical feedback, they could run a 100 balls in a month. No problem.

How much would we have to bet for it to be worth your while to run this experiment?

Pool doesn’t quite work that way. Some things take time. You can’t teach a kid to read in a week or two. It takes time for them to learn letters, sounds, and all the weird rules that form our language. The words get more confusion, and they have to learn them so we’ll they hardly have to do more than skim and their brain automatically converts images into sounds.

Working 8 hours a day can’t replace years of brain connections and experience. I’ve had students want to do extended trainings (7+ days) and I’ve had to explain that once you fill a cup with water pouring more over the rim doesn’t help. So for your hypothetical pool player they would be maxed out on what they can absorb in a day or two and would need months of practice to gradually pick up more details.

8 hours a day I predict that it would take an above average student 2-3 years to have a chance at 100.

(FYI when I was a kid I played 8-12 hours a day, 365 days a year, from 13-17, and my high run at 17 was just 84. I didn’t break 100 until after I was 18. I’m not the best, but I tried my best.)

 

[Tin Man]

I have respect for you Tin Man for your teaching , but our abilities have to come from natural, God's will.... This is what I see... Guy

Yes, but god needs us to meet him part way. To us humans it feels like all the way.

 

[Guy Manges]

Yes, but god needs us to meet him part way. To us humans it feels like all the way.

Except for the capital G I got nor disagree there... You know you've made it to older... Guy

 

[lfigueroa]

Haven't read the entire thread.

I think if you put anyone with average hand eye cordination in an isolated room with a pool table,for 8 hours a day, with proper instruction and critical feedback, they could run a 100 balls in a month. No problem.

lol.

Lou Figueroa
stop it
you're killin' me

 

[MitchAlsup]

I wouldn't call it a Natural Talent when the difference between winning and losing is the ability to play at 100% of your ability, and with some luck.

Natural Ability is the phenomenon when someone is rather good at something the very first time he tries it.

To become best still requires massive commitment
To become good still requires significant practice

But the one with Natural Ability has an instant head start on the ones without.

 

[tableroll]

Talent is for suckers. No one on this forum has ever been capped by their talent. Maybe if we talk about what separates the #1 and #10 player in history we could theorize but it’s still a debate. People who point to stories of quick or slow learners are talking about short time durations with a small subset of skills, not an overall career. In reality none of us will ever be limited by anything by other than our own attitudes and effort so I believe in focusing exclusively on what we can control. Almost all champions believe this and I’m glad those who don’t are my competition.

I agree.

 

[khessler]

natural talent!!! majority of good players are better at other venues and sports

 

[tableroll]

I agree.

Just heard a poolplayers pod cast by Joey something. He interviewed Alex. Alex said "people have said I can play cause I am a natural" But what they dont realize is that I played ten hours a day every day for five years. Boom. Nuff said.

 

[Justaneng]

There are heritable components to aptitude. Intelligence, spacial recognition, and hand eye coordination are at least somewhat useful with pool skills development and have some heritability. However, at the end of the day everyone here most likely has the “talent” to be among the best in their area and pool is a niche enough sport that you won’t be flooded with competition - a 10,000 person town may produce 20 people that are willing to put any sort of real practice in.

However, at the extreme right end of the performance bell curve this is a whole other story. SVB is great in part because he grew up in a pool hall, but SVB is far from the only kid who grew up in a pool hall - we just don’t hear about the other 500 pool hall kids who are now 42 and hanging out as APA mid level SL-7’s. SVB is the combination of having the right aptitude and being obsessive from an early age.

The stratification of the right end of the performance bell curve is obscene. For instance it was quite obvious that Michael Jordan was the best basketball player in his prime, despite the fact that you would tend to think that a sport with a billion followers and players would mathematically make the gap between the best and second best practically indistinguishable.

Similarly with pool (and a few million people wielding cues regularly world wide), the gap between Fargo player 1 and player 100 is obvious even in a short set. This stratification I feel in part is based on natural talent, as all players in this range are by definition obsessive.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Having spent some time at what I will call Para, or Amputee Olympics Type Competations. Most of these Athlets are what some like to call different. Remember one young guy who was Bi Lateral Amputee, he had partial Left's below Knee. His event was 100. I ask what he did 100 in, forget the number but said that is flying for 100 yards, he repyed we run 100 Meters. I am work Record Holder.

Desire & Talent = Champion.

 

[Tin Man]

Here’s a question for y’all. You have to bet 5k on a match. You know nothing about how good either player performs, they are both total strangers. The only thing you know is that player A believes talent separates the best from the good and player B believes each individual can achieve anything with the right effort. Who are you betting on?

 

[trentfromtoledo]

Here’s a question for y’all. You have to bet 5k on a match. You know nothing about how good either player performs, they are both total strangers. The only thing you know is that player A believes talent separates the best from the good and player B believes each individual can achieve anything with the right effort. Who are you betting on?

Have you ever tried to Skateboard? You either have NATURAL TALENT or you suck at it. Not sayin you can't have fun, but, you will never be "good" at it by just practicing 10 hours a day: FACT.

 

[Tin Man]

View attachment 647775Have you ever tried to Skateboard? You either have NATURAL TALENT or you suck at it. Not sayin you can't have fun, but, you will never be "good" at it by just practicing 10 hours a day: FACT.

A fact is something that has indisputable evidence. Your personal experience with skateboarding is an anecdotal opinion. Typing it in all caps doesn't change that. We can disagree but you don't get to rest your case by basically saying you are the judge and jury and you find you agree with yourself.

 

[trentfromtoledo]

A fact is something that has indisputable evidence. Your personal experience with skateboarding is an anecdotal opinion. Typing it in all caps doesn't change that. We can disagree but you don't get to rest your case by basically saying you are the judge and jury and you find you agree with yourself.

Try skateboarding or surfing or snowboarding and find out for yourself. I already know the truth and the fact is: you can't do it. I do rest my "case". Everyone has something they are good at, that does not mean they will be good at anything they try because they practiced.

TFT

 

[bbb]

tin man
check your PM

 

[bbb]

Here’s a question for y’all. You have to bet 5k on a match. You know nothing about how good either player performs, they are both total strangers. The only thing you know is that player A believes talent separates the best from the good and player B believes each individual can achieve anything with the right effort. Who are you betting on?

this is a misleading scenario
because we dont how much work player A has put in
also we dont know how much work player B put in
but lets assume they both have done equal work in practice /play and all the things necessary
the player who is better has more talent
talent is the ceiling what someone can achieve (jmho)
without the work they will not get to their ceiling
i do believe someone with less talent can surpass in results someone with more talent if the less talented works harder than the talented one
but still
you cant get silk from a pigs ear no matter how hard you try
jmho
icbw

 

[Tin Man]

Try skateboarding or surfing or snowboarding and find out for yourself. I already know the truth and the fact is: you can't do it. I do rest my "case". Everyone has something they are good at, that does not mean they will be good at anything they try because they practiced.

TFT

Maybe you’re right. Looks like no matter how much you practice you won’t ever be able to understand what fact and truth means.

 

[trentfromtoledo]

Maybe you’re right. Looks like no matter how much you practice you won’t ever be able to understand what fact and truth means.

The truth is: you just want to argue your unprovable "facts".

TFT

 

[Tin Man]

this is a misleading scenario
because we dont how much work player A has put in
also we dont know how much work player B put in
but lets assume they both have done equal work in practice /play and all the things necessary
the player who is better has more talent
talent is the ceiling what someone can achieve (jmho)
without the work they will not get to their ceiling
i do believe someone with less talent can surpass in results someone with more talent if the less talented works harder than the talented one
but still
you cant get silk from a pigs ear no matter how hard you try
jmho
icbw

Bbb, we can’t assume they both put in the same work. That wasn’t the deal.

My point is that the player who believes in talent will likely not have put in the work the other player has and will likely not be as strong of a player. This is obvious but everyone wants to dodge the question or modify it.

Here’s another question for you then. Everyone keeps talking about a ceiling, some level they are capped at by talent that no matter what they can’t exceed. Can you give me an example of a player that reached their ceiling? Someone who no matter what, there was nothing they could do to improve their abilities? Maybe if I met that person I’d be persuaded.