Hmmm...you say a lot of insulting things, while really not knowing me. That tells me a lot about your character.
Is there such a thing as natural talent? Some say yes, I do not think there is?
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MajorMiscue
Democat
He's a genius, just ask him.
Lucky us.
I just posted truth based on what you posted. If you tried something once and gave up and cried, then yes, you ARE those things I stated. If it's insulting to you, then I suggest you work on your CHARACTER...
By the way, it is hilariously ironic, that someone who self professes to try something once, cry and give up, talks about MY CHARACTER...
Jaden
Cool story Fatty. I worked telemarketing in high school for like...2 months maybe. This was the only job I was ever fired from, and taught me a valuable lesson. So, the company I worked for sold home security systems. So, on the phones our deal was to get our agents an appointment to go out and close the sale of the system. If the appointment made a sale we got a $25 commission on each sale...plus we made over minimum wage on the phone (this was the early 90s...so if you could get one solid appointment an hour, a high school kid could make over 30 bucks an hour). The hours were like 4 weeknights...from 5-9 I think, and then Saturday morning from 0800-1200. So...I was actually one of the top 3 sales people in our group. I've always had the gift of gab, and was just really relaxed and comfortable on the phone.
The day I was fired was a Saturday morning. The calls were automated on a computer and we had headsets and just clicked buttons to end a call, and start a new one. I called a lady and got into my opening, and she starts letting me have it...cursing me out up and down for calling her on a Saturday morning. Hey, I get it....and then I swear to you I heard a CLICK and I thought she had hung up (but did not confirm this by looking on the screen)....I mumbled a curse word or two and may have referenced a female dog...and I hear her voice again scream "WHAT?!?!?!"....and I scramble to click on the end call button. I look around...and go onto my next calls. Well, it's not 2 minutes later I see my manager RICH (I still remember his name) on the phone. He's yes ma'aming...and being super polite....and I just know it's her. Apparently she was listening well enough to remember everything she needed to get in touch with us. Rich gets up and says, Matt - let me talk to you in the hall. We go out in the hall and he asks...and I tell him the complete story, honestly. He's like...sorry, I've got to fire you, or she'll call the BBB..but come back in 6 months and I'll rehire you. I hate to lose you. I was still a young carefree teenager so it was like water off a duck's back, and I said, "No problem. I'm really sorry about that." My lesson was...always know the score before you open your mouth. I had a new job the next day somewhere else (I think Domino's Pizza, LOL....nobody could say I didn't have hustle) working with a friend. I missed that telemarketing money!
Did you read the post? Try something once? Just stop.
DID YOU read my RESPONSE???? ramp riding and street riding are two completely different animals. One does NOT translate to the other well at all...
Jaden
Ok - but I rode for years and just sucked. I tried. I loved riding. I had skater friends who were good...but I just didn't have it. Believe me, nobody wanted to be a good skater more than me..but my feet and legs wouldn't listen. It just did not click. And you go on some insulting rant about me not having willpower or balls based on one AZB post? What is wrong with you, man? You don't know me from Adam, and have no clue what I've been through or accomplished in life, just because I said I gave up on skating as a kid after a long time because I was just terrible. You've really got to lighten up and consider what you post. I try to be respectful to everyone...even Cocobolo Cowboy. You should do the same.
I apologize. I'm wound a little tight...
Let me just say one thing. I hope this helps. I had a friend, my best friend, who was a genius. We were the person that the other could throw our ideas for inventions off of to see about their viability.
One day he makes the comment that he makes things that he would use and enjoy because he figures other people would too.
I said, you can't do that. You can't base things off of your experience and desires alone. A lot of people may love it, or too few may love it for it to be viable.
You too, can't base your thoughts on JUST your experience and expect it to be valid.
Lots of people would say I'm naturally talented. Things just seem to come easy to me. ANYTHING, everything. I'm a musician who plays by ear, I'm a natural artist, etc... I don't like that label. Naturally talented. Because to truly excel at the things that I have, I've had to work my ass off.
So you would think I would be on the other side of this argument, but I'm not. Now, are there caps to peoples abilities? ABSOLUTELY. However, they are rarely the cap that we place on ourselves and my time in the military and those others who have been elite in the military will tell you the same thing. The difference between the people who succeed and the people who fail, is not listening to others who tell them what their limitations are.
Jaden
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Thank you.
Great story! That’s a hard job, I had friends who owned home security call centers. Triple tough on the people on the phone.
That was similar to the catalog credit call centers I owned. That’s not a fun way to work the phones. That’s mostly been replaced with IVR integrated voice response systems. So basically a prerecorded bot does the opening pitch and then at a specific point a real person takes over the call and buttons up the deals. It’s more order taking.
Oh yes the BBB, that’s more corrupt than any thing I can think of. I was at war with them for over 20 years. Don’t believe a word they say-yet everyone does. Your boss did what he had to-if wasn’t you or him. That’s just how it works. Sucks.
The telemarketing that I did was leads like in the movie you quoted (zero chance you’ll slip that past me
) Glen Gary Glen Ross. With paper leads and say what you needed to to close the deal. ABC always be closing! I was like Rickey Roma in that movie. I never really talked about the sale, I’d get into the buyers head and create a image of their desired future. Let the buyers sell themselves, I just painted part of the picture. I’m a student of human moves. Great times, I miss that action.
I hate the word “transparency” takes all the fun out of things.
Fatboy Approved
MajorMiscue
Democat
In my entire life I[ve known two people who were truly gifted. One was the preacher's kid from church. He was the best at any sport he chose. He was the Team Quarterback, baseball pitcher and varsity golfer. He was drafted right out of high school by the NY Yankees and was in their farm system for a couple years. He gave it up for something with more longevity and better views, professional golf. He was married with a couple little kids, he had a paying gig as golf pro at a local club. Returning from an event at the coast he wrecked his car and died in the crash. I always wondered how far he would have gone had he lived.
The other was a high school basketball phenom the year we took state. He went on to college ball but majored in something meaningful and never made the pros. But both of those guys had fantastic hand-eye coordination. They made difficult games look effortless.
I remember one time I was catching for the pitcher before lunch at a church picnic, he had a game later in the day. I was making do with a first baseman's mitt since none of us were in possession of a catcher's mitt so I was trying to ensure I caught the ball in the webbing in order to avoid injury. This guy could really throw.
Just then he said "watch this one, it's going to break on you". I watched all right, it was going to be high and outside so I half rose to chase it. Then it broke and liked to broke my balls. The blue haired grannies got a vocabulary lesson from the kid writhing on the ground that day. No more catching for major league pitchers, thanks.
The other was a high school basketball phenom the year we took state. He went on to college ball but majored in something meaningful and never made the pros. But both of those guys had fantastic hand-eye coordination. They made difficult games look effortless.
I remember one time I was catching for the pitcher before lunch at a church picnic, he had a game later in the day. I was making do with a first baseman's mitt since none of us were in possession of a catcher's mitt so I was trying to ensure I caught the ball in the webbing in order to avoid injury. This guy could really throw.
Just then he said "watch this one, it's going to break on you". I watched all right, it was going to be high and outside so I half rose to chase it. Then it broke and liked to broke my balls. The blue haired grannies got a vocabulary lesson from the kid writhing on the ground that day. No more catching for major league pitchers, thanks.
Great story! That’s a hard job, I had friends who owned home security call centers. Triple tough on the people on the phone.
That was similar to the catalog credit call centers I owned. That’s not a fun way to work the phones. That’s mostly been replaced with IVR integrated voice response systems. So basically a prerecorded bot does the opening pitch and then at a specific point a real person takes over the call and buttons up the deals. It’s more order taking.
Oh yes the BBB, that’s more corrupt than any thing I can think of. I was at war with them for over 20 years. Don’t believe a word they say-yet everyone does. Your boss did what he had to-if wasn’t you or him. That’s just how it works. Sucks.
The telemarketing that I did was leads like in the movie you quoted (zero chance you’ll slip that past me
Great times, I miss that action.
I hate the word “transparency” takes all the fun out of things.
Fatboy Approved
Jack Lemmon (Sheldon Lavigne) more than earned his OSCAR for GGGR. What a performance!
Alec Baldwin could have earned one as well for his classic 5 minute speech.
Put that coffee DOWN! Coffee is for closers, only. You think I'm f*cking with you? I'm here from downtown...I'm here from Mitch and Murray. And I'm here on a mission of MERCY.
The good news is YOU'RE FIRED! The bad news is, you have one week to regain your jobs - starting with tonight's SIT.
First prize is a Cadillac Eldorado, Second prize is a set of steak knives, third prize is YOU'RE FIRED.
Only one thing counts in this life, get them to sign on the line that is dotted....!!
Attention, Interest, Decision, Action!
They're sitting out there...waiting to give you their money! Are you gonna take it? Are you man enough to take it??
Love that movie.
I’ll have a coffee please
️You have that down cold-word for word.
That first 5 minutes is on YouTube I watch it from time to time.
In the phone rooms I started in, I was in meetings like that. That hardcore. FU close or your fired. That scene wasn’t a exaggeration of how it was in that world. Like in the Hustler playing a 40 hour session(which I never did-but watched many).
In todays world the guys running those sales meetings would be locked up for abuse and defamation charges at the very least.
I sat in on a few, I said FU and walked of most of them after the first few months, I was like Roma, they couldn’t fire me because I brought in the most money with the leads. We had no guidelines-get the maximum money on each sale. So those of us with the best phone skills could squeeze the max $ out of the best leads which were very few, it was re-selling existing customers over and over. I was a re-loader in phone room jargon. That’s like being a “champion” in pool. Most never get there, I was the elite Earl, Efren, Segal level guy.
The old axiom “put the paper where the money is” meaning leads afforded me the privilege of not having to be treated that way. However if I didn’t perform or had a bad week-there is luck involved when you get 15-20 leads a week. If I didn’t get the numbers my allocation of leads next week would be lower. So I constantly had to keep performing.
Much like pool, ti be there best you must keep proving it over and over again. That was a lot of pressure to perform. And when I had a bad week, the next week I got less good leads (the fresh paids) to pitch. There was endless bad leads, but I never pitched them because I got the best-“paper where the money is” thing.
The reason I did that job was to learn the call center biz. Which I took that concept, cleaned it up and created a long term biz that really made me $. The catalog credit biz. Which paid me much more, but wasn’t as fun.
Telemarketing ended in December 95 when the FTC was tasked by the Govt to regulate telephonic sales. Yes it still exists but the cowboy world like in GGGR and what I did-prize promotions was illegal. The penalty’s at first were not to bad. But it was over.
The credit biz I opened in 96-08 we had some FTC inquiries, signed a deal with the FTC allowing certain trade practices, advertising law mostly. And we did about $725M in biz before we closed down. We didn’t get shut down. The internet was the end of the catalog biz.
I miss the phone rooms, I was the best. I used a “phone name” and became known throughout the industry. It was cool being famous under a different name and no face. But when the internet came along I made a decision, not me in front of the camera. Or posting pics of my stuff. I like my privacy. I slipped a couple times. But lesson learned.
Now it’s “transparency”…..good luck to that group. It’s almost like your obligated to post pics of your cues. I have to prove what to who? Is my reply.
I’m happy to share showing them to people, just not in the public domaine. Too much biz in the streets for me now. I’m just getting old…..
Fatboy<———drinking his coffee
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Sure there is natural talent, Terry Bell never picked up a cue until he was 21 years old and in a few short years he was the last two under Buddy Hall, natural talent allows the player to excel at the game with minimal play , a person may watch Two champions playing in the back room after hours and see a particular shot done a certain way and they are able to store that in their arsenal of shots they pick up just by watching the better players, many players attain greatness through many hours at the table with hard work and dedication while a few others not so much, even a weak player may know a shot that a Pro or others don't, I've found that out many times on the road playing pool. I know players that have been playing pool 40 years and never have been better than average or below, not because of their hours of play or their desire to be better, it's because of "Little Talent" that's not a bad thing it's just they don't pick up on English's, banking, saftey play , or position, maybe they're not that Observant , ect.ect. I know I picked up on pool rather quickly, I would go to the poolroom and "watch!"... I didn't miss anything a player was doing, I would stand behind players and see what english they were using on different shots, the reaction of balls where doing and what caused it!...then at age 12 yrs. I would go to the Church Recreation Room and play on the two old snooker tables they had , by the the time I was 13yrs. I had ran 7 straight racks of 9-ball, and by 14yrs. I ran a whole snooker rack at the local poolhall, I didn't have anyone holding my hand tell me how to play I learned on my own, that's "Natural Talent". Then at age 18 yrs. I hit the road with my brother Calvin and the real school started then. David Harcrow
dquarasr
Registered
Another couple of data points on "natural talent":
1) the music student who has "perfect pitch". Frank Sinatra had it. It is the ability to hear a note, and completely out of context, say "that's A" or "that's C". Related are people (such as myself) who have very keen relative pitch sensing, while we cannot "name" a note, we can indeed discern that a particular note is sharp or flat compared to another note (like, someone in the band playing off-key). I'm sure all of us here know someone who cannot carry a tune to save their life.
Also, I have a very good palette, both oral and olfactory. Once I smelled a packet of mulling spices and I was able to identify 11 of the 20 spices and herbs in the package. My wife could not identify more than three. I have a very good nose and tongue for tasting wine. If I had the ambition, I bet I'd be a very good sommelier.
2) I've instructed well over 100 students at High Performance Driver Education (HPDE) track days, where I'd ride right seat with helmet-to-helmet communications, teaching people how to drive their sports cars on a road race course. I've instructed students with incredibly widely diverse "natural talent".
My worst student was a young lady who was only there because her boyfriend wanted to be there, and she wanted to learn with him. She was nervous, totally flummoxed by the speed, traffic, and sensory overload, having to keep track of her own speed, cars around her, the sensory input from the car (steering and brake pedal feedback, etc.), and learning "the line". It was WAY over her head to process all at once. The only reason we were able to get her reasonably safe out there with other students was because I suggested to the chief instructor that we do a "lead/follow" session showing her the line. She did not get it when she rode with me, nor in any description from the right seat I provided her on where to be on the track.
In stark contrast, my best student was a 747 pilot. Because he showed up with an NSX, and I own one and have tracked it, he was assigned to me. He was relaxed, receptive, and an absolute sponge. Anything I suggested, he was able to internalize and apply seamlessly. He got fast *really quickly*, and learned better and faster, by far, than any other student I had ever instructed. There is a book and movie called "The Right Stuff" that describes people with certain natural "right stuff" talent.
I like to think that in my own history, I took to track driving very quickly. It probably wouldn't happen these days due to current litigation and conservative policies, but I was signed off to drive solo in my first ever track day.
Yes, Virginia, there are people who have natural talent. Based on my instructional experience, there were students who ran the gamut, from totally intimidated, to relaxed and stunningly able to absorb and apply technique.
Pool may be less of a dramatic endeavor than something that can kill you when gotten wrong (I was in an NSX with a 16-year-old student; we crashed at the FIRST braking zone of the FIRST lap of the FIRST hot session of the day), but I'm sure my experience instructing drivers applies to learning pool.
1) the music student who has "perfect pitch". Frank Sinatra had it. It is the ability to hear a note, and completely out of context, say "that's A" or "that's C". Related are people (such as myself) who have very keen relative pitch sensing, while we cannot "name" a note, we can indeed discern that a particular note is sharp or flat compared to another note (like, someone in the band playing off-key). I'm sure all of us here know someone who cannot carry a tune to save their life.
Also, I have a very good palette, both oral and olfactory. Once I smelled a packet of mulling spices and I was able to identify 11 of the 20 spices and herbs in the package. My wife could not identify more than three. I have a very good nose and tongue for tasting wine. If I had the ambition, I bet I'd be a very good sommelier.
2) I've instructed well over 100 students at High Performance Driver Education (HPDE) track days, where I'd ride right seat with helmet-to-helmet communications, teaching people how to drive their sports cars on a road race course. I've instructed students with incredibly widely diverse "natural talent".
My worst student was a young lady who was only there because her boyfriend wanted to be there, and she wanted to learn with him. She was nervous, totally flummoxed by the speed, traffic, and sensory overload, having to keep track of her own speed, cars around her, the sensory input from the car (steering and brake pedal feedback, etc.), and learning "the line". It was WAY over her head to process all at once. The only reason we were able to get her reasonably safe out there with other students was because I suggested to the chief instructor that we do a "lead/follow" session showing her the line. She did not get it when she rode with me, nor in any description from the right seat I provided her on where to be on the track.
In stark contrast, my best student was a 747 pilot. Because he showed up with an NSX, and I own one and have tracked it, he was assigned to me. He was relaxed, receptive, and an absolute sponge. Anything I suggested, he was able to internalize and apply seamlessly. He got fast *really quickly*, and learned better and faster, by far, than any other student I had ever instructed. There is a book and movie called "The Right Stuff" that describes people with certain natural "right stuff" talent.
I like to think that in my own history, I took to track driving very quickly. It probably wouldn't happen these days due to current litigation and conservative policies, but I was signed off to drive solo in my first ever track day.
Yes, Virginia, there are people who have natural talent. Based on my instructional experience, there were students who ran the gamut, from totally intimidated, to relaxed and stunningly able to absorb and apply technique.
Pool may be less of a dramatic endeavor than something that can kill you when gotten wrong (I was in an NSX with a 16-year-old student; we crashed at the FIRST braking zone of the FIRST lap of the FIRST hot session of the day), but I'm sure my experience instructing drivers applies to learning pool.
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Great and interesting post, but that says it all right there.
Can someone be talented at life? Like life just comes way easier to that person because they are talented?
I mean, maybe they are talented at basketball, but not at reading. Or maybe they are talented at math but not in art. There are many ways to live a good life, and most of it is attitude, humility, and appreciation.
Pool is such a diverse game. Can a guy be a talented striker but not do well in front of a crowd? Can someone have a super big stroke but have a lot of demons that make it hard to deliver? Can someone jump super well but not kick worth a damn?
If we were measuring just one very, very specific skill I could see talking about talent. Like if pool was just a break speed contest, maybe it might matter. But there are so many different skills that I don't think it matters if you are talented at a few of them or not, what matters is finding what you are talented at, shoring up your weaknesses, and putting together a package that is effective.
I mean, maybe they are talented at basketball, but not at reading. Or maybe they are talented at math but not in art. There are many ways to live a good life, and most of it is attitude, humility, and appreciation.
Pool is such a diverse game. Can a guy be a talented striker but not do well in front of a crowd? Can someone have a super big stroke but have a lot of demons that make it hard to deliver? Can someone jump super well but not kick worth a damn?
If we were measuring just one very, very specific skill I could see talking about talent. Like if pool was just a break speed contest, maybe it might matter. But there are so many different skills that I don't think it matters if you are talented at a few of them or not, what matters is finding what you are talented at, shoring up your weaknesses, and putting together a package that is effective.
Tin man I could be wrong so you can correct me but I think that you and some of the posters are actually speaking two languages or comparing apples and oranges
And here is why I say that
if I understand you correctly your premises that whatever God-given skills you’re given your ultimate results will be based on how hard you work at it
In other words perseverance and dedication will or can overcome natural talent or God-given skills
What I think many posters here are saying is there are certain people where skills come to them much easier than others because of God given natural talent
When you blend the two concepts that yes certain people have natural ability which allows them to perform certain tasks more easily than others can
combine that with perseverance and dedication you can make A champion
Jmho
Icbw
And here is why I say that
if I understand you correctly your premises that whatever God-given skills you’re given your ultimate results will be based on how hard you work at it
In other words perseverance and dedication will or can overcome natural talent or God-given skills
What I think many posters here are saying is there are certain people where skills come to them much easier than others because of God given natural talent
When you blend the two concepts that yes certain people have natural ability which allows them to perform certain tasks more easily than others can
combine that with perseverance and dedication you can make A champion
Jmho
Icbw
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Zerksies
Well-known member
Their is such a thing as natural talent, but not everyone of them becomes world class. Talents can only gets you so far, knowledge needs to be attained.
I once knew a player that could literally pocket anything. He had the shittiest looking fundamentals know to man. Getting shape for this guy was disgusting. If this guy learned cue ball control. He could of possibly be in the 700+ range.
I once knew a player that could literally pocket anything. He had the shittiest looking fundamentals know to man. Getting shape for this guy was disgusting. If this guy learned cue ball control. He could of possibly be in the 700+ range.