Buying on the For Sale forum. Friends and Family and sweeping paranoia

S

StuartTKelley

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll preface this with a simple question, would anyone here mail out your valuable cue to someone before having access to the amount you sold it for? So you mail it, let someone go over it with a fine toothed comb, nervously wait to get scammed or they just have buyers remorse and don't want it now. Me, NO.

Does any business do that ? No. You have to pay to get your item. Now I'm not a retailer, I'm an individual seller representing my item as clearly and honestly as possible along with relying on my feedback to back me up as are all or most on this forum and others. Along with that is a certain degree of faith that has to be had to buy and sell on" unregulated" forums for the most part. This isn't Ebay or anything like it.

SO, to the friends and family option vs Goods and Services. First, my feedback speaks for itself. I've recently tried to sell the cue I have listed as we speak twice . Both times Paypal is holding payment for using Goods and Services. My account is verified with PayPal and I've never once had a negative transaction so why they insist on holding payment is beyond me when others I know do not have this issue. That being said, this is why I ask for friends and family. I've sold tons of items here , on Fb, other forums my rep is stellar everywhere I sell. So this sweeping paranoia and "don't let anyone make you use friends and family " nonsense is out of hand.

I absolutely will never send an item and wait until delivery of said item to access my funds. Never have I done that in my life and not about to start now. I am a reputable seller and I can promise you my communication and the entire transaction will be perfect. If you want that plus a great deal then buy from me. If you don't, then you don't.
 
StuartTKelley said:
Never been ripped off using it, no.
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it stinks a lot. anybody whose been through that would be hard pressed to put themselves back in that situation. You are completely powerless.

g&s, however, is swift and just. perhaps you could contact paypal to try and resolve your issues with it, and then just start adding the 3% to your price.

in my opinion there is zero reason to chance friends and family unless you know the guy personally. But, if you’re dead set on your position of “trust me or don’t” i cant fault you. I just wouldn’t buy anything from you.
 
Bob Jewett said:
If it's an $800 item, how much would escrow cost? I assume the shipping cost doubles.
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Fair question, certainly for an item in that price range, but things like shipping and escrow costs are negotiable IMO. Both sides have a mutual interest in the security of escrow so asking to split it isn't unreasonable to me.

For a buyer to pony up half escrow and shipping might be a wash when compared to a 3-4% premium for PPGS for a good deal of items in that section (e.g., 1800 to 2750). But I think that the escrow is more desirable that PPGS and worth the additional cost if there is one.

For anything ~$3K or over and I'm not totally comfortable with the member's history here, I would even spring to cover the escrow and half shipping and consider it the cost of doing business. That's just me though.

To answer the OP, there are certain members here I would do that arrangement with based on prior dealing (although those members probably wouldn't request that kind of set up).

For anything of significant value on Facebook where I don't know the person, I won't buy it unless the seller agrees to an escrow.

All IMO - just my thoughts. I've been burned on cue descriptions before, which diminish the value of the cue. I factor that into the calculus too. Getting a good, third party description of the cue (like Proficient will do) before you agree to complete the deal is worth it to me. One man's "barely noticeable taper roll" or "slight lift aft joint but it's the wrap" is another man's dealbreaker.
 
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1) i have bought and sold many items with paypal
using goods and services and never had my funds held
so i dont understand why you are having trouble
2) paypal provides a service and has expenses
i think they should get paid for the services they provide
3) as a buyer i like the added protection good and services provides
4) i wouldnt be opposed to escrow
 
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soyale said:
it stinks a lot. anybody whose been through that would be hard pressed to put themselves back in that situation. You are completely powerless.

g&s, however, is swift and just. perhaps you could contact paypal to try and resolve your issues with it, and then just start adding the 3% to your price.

in my opinion there is zero reason to chance friends and family unless you know the guy personally. But, if you’re dead set on your position of “trust me or don’t” i cant fault you. I just wouldn’t buy anything from you.
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Again, all who have ever bought from me have been 100% pleased and gotten exactly what was promised without fail. I have argued with PayPal until I am blue in the face and their stance is clear though completely unjustified. And you know the other side of the coin is a lot of scammers are using G&S to get items, dispute items and steal the money and item. This happened to me years back on Ebay before scamming was more commonplace. Whether I have the person add the 4% or not, this doesn't solve the hold for me. I won't ship anyone , anything without me getting paid first. Just how it is.
 
PayPal holds the payment in escrow until the buyer positively affirms the item was received and is as described.

In order to do that, the buyer has to receive and inspect the pool cue or any other item they purchased. Once the
buyer does that, the funds are released to the seller. If the buyer doesn’t, PayPal intercedes and instructs the buyer
to contact the seller and resolve the issue(s). If it cannot be resolved, the buyer has to return the pool cue, or item,
and the seller has to affirm they received their pool cue or item from the buyer. Then PayPal refunds the buyer’s
payment but only after the seller affirms the item has been received. When a buyer confirms with PayPal that they
received the pool cue, or item, & it’s as described, the buyer’s payment gets released to the seller. If PayPal released
payment to a seller simply when the item has been delivered, the buyer would have zero protection if the cue wasn’t
as described or had a warp or was damaged. PayPal is intended to make buyers feel comfortable with a stranger. The
seller could always insist on some other type of payment instead of PayPal but buyers assume greater risk doing that.
 
Bavafongoul said:
PayPal holds the payment in escrow until the buyer positively affirms the item was received and is as described.

In order to do that, the buyer has to receive and inspect the pool cue or any other item they purchased. Once the
buyer does that, the funds are released to the seller. If the buyer doesn’t, PayPal intercedes and instructs the buyer
to contact the seller and resolve the issue(s). If it cannot be resolved, the buyer has to return the pool cue, or item,
and the seller has to affirm they received their pool cue or item from the buyer. Then PayPal refunds the buyer’s
payment but only after the seller affirms the item has been received. When a buyer confirms with PayPal that they
received the pool cue, or item, & it’s as described, the buyer’s payment gets released to the seller. If PayPal released
payment to a seller simply when the item has been delivered, the buyer would have zero protection if the cue wasn’t
as described or had a warp or was damaged. PayPal is intended to make buyers feel comfortable with a stranger. The
seller could always insist on some other type of payment instead of PayPal but buyers assume greater risk doing that.
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I've never done that and sold a ton of cues, fishing reels, rods, baits, other items. Not once have I ever sent anything and waited for a buyer to inspect an item before I get payment. Again, hilarious. I have never paid for anything and been scammed either. It's called faith and vetting who you deal with. I have no problem sending f&f to someone who has good feedback and is known. Never been burned 🔥
 
I avoid paypal like the plague. Use it only in emergency. No mater what you say, friends and family for anything over $50, to me would smell like a scam. If your so honest, accept a check and wait 3 to 5 days for it to clear before sending, no fees that way, or better yet, just set up a charge card acct. You are just trying to screw the system by trying to avoid fees for your benefit. I have shipped items to members of other forums for small amounts, under $100, where I asked them to just send a check, and never waited for it to arrive or clear. Never been burned by a forum member that had a history. If I did get burned, I would destroy their forum reputation. Bought a cue from DZ and sent a check and told him to just send cue when he felt comfortable that it cleared. If I remember right, he sent it when he recieved the check. Bought some extensions from Rick Roper, he sent when receiving check, second order was sent before receiving check. Absolutly no reason a legit business can't accept a check, charge card, or paypal goods and services. There are members on this forum that I would have no hesitation sending a cue to before actually receiving payment.
 
When I bought my second cue from Jerry R., he shipped me the cue before I sent him the final payment.
My remaining balance was >$1500 after making several progress payments during the cue’s construction.

Jerry said he wasn’t concerned having already done business with me. I sent that payment via overnight mail.
The idea of stealing someone’s hard earned money is just despicable. I wish there was more severe penalties.
 
The last thing I sold G&S went ok, but had to wait 10 days to have my funds released from PayPal, after the cue was verified delivered. That's no good.
 
I'm not much of a cue buyer/seller, but in my own experience, PP doesn't hold money as a rule.
in fact, I've never experienced that- maybe when I initially opened my account
if you're an experienced, consistent seller, and pp is holding money up, something sounds wrong..

I've also never experienced dealing with a difference between g&s and f&f re: ebay-
if such a discrepancy were the case, I think that would've been some time ago- money order days
that said, ebay *does* hold money before releasing it to the seller, acting as kind of an escrow service
this is a relatively new thing, but again, I haven't had a problem with it (knock on wood)

re: personal checks- if you send them, you're giving out your bank account info.- scams are in play
if you're receiving checks, just because it's "cleared" by the bank doesn't mean it's good
even when the money's in your account, the check can still be rubber/canceled-
I was curious and asked myself, and my bank said the only way to guarantee a "cleared" check
is if you verify the check with the bank is came from, i.e. call them and ask..

I think the bottom line with all this stuff, is go to the source- paypal, your bank, etc.- and find out.
 
StuartTKelley said:
I'll preface this with a simple question, would anyone here mail out your valuable cue to someone before having access to the amount you sold it for? So you mail it, let someone go over it with a fine toothed comb, nervously wait to get scammed or they just have buyers remorse and don't want it now. Me, NO.

Does any business do that ? No. You have to pay to get your item. Now I'm not a retailer, I'm an individual seller representing my item as clearly and honestly as possible along with relying on my feedback to back me up as are all or most on this forum and others. Along with that is a certain degree of faith that has to be had to buy and sell on" unregulated" forums for the most part. This isn't Ebay or anything like it.

SO, to the friends and family option vs Goods and Services. First, my feedback speaks for itself. I've recently tried to sell the cue I have listed as we speak twice . Both times Paypal is holding payment for using Goods and Services. My account is verified with PayPal and I've never once had a negative transaction so why they insist on holding payment is beyond me when others I know do not have this issue. That being said, this is why I ask for friends and family. I've sold tons of items here , on Fb, other forums my rep is stellar everywhere I sell. So this sweeping paranoia and "don't let anyone make you use friends and family " nonsense is out of hand.

I absolutely will never send an item and wait until delivery of said item to access my funds. Never have I done that in my life and not about to start now. I am a reputable seller and I can promise you my communication and the entire transaction will be perfect. If you want that plus a great deal then buy from me. If you don't, then you don't.
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Huh. So it's okay for someone to give you money before you give the cue, but you refuse to give the cue before getting the money.

Unless you do a face-to-face transaction, one party has to trust the other. Or, do escrow and both parties have to trust a third party. See where I'm going here? At some point in every transaction there is trust. You don't trust your customers, why should they trust you? Don't give me that itrader crap, that can be scammed.
 
StuartTKelley said:
I'll preface this with a simple question, would anyone here mail out your valuable cue to someone before having access to the amount you sold it for? So you mail it, let someone go over it with a fine toothed comb, nervously wait to get scammed or they just have buyers remorse and don't want it now. Me, NO.

Does any business do that ? No. You have to pay to get your item. Now I'm not a retailer, I'm an individual seller representing my item as clearly and honestly as possible along with relying on my feedback to back me up as are all or most on this forum and others. Along with that is a certain degree of faith that has to be had to buy and sell on" unregulated" forums for the most part. This isn't Ebay or anything like it.

SO, to the friends and family option vs Goods and Services. First, my feedback speaks for itself. I've recently tried to sell the cue I have listed as we speak twice . Both times Paypal is holding payment for using Goods and Services. My account is verified with PayPal and I've never once had a negative transaction so why they insist on holding payment is beyond me when others I know do not have this issue. That being said, this is why I ask for friends and family. I've sold tons of items here , on Fb, other forums my rep is stellar everywhere I sell. So this sweeping paranoia and "don't let anyone make you use friends and family " nonsense is out of hand.

I absolutely will never send an item and wait until delivery of said item to access my funds. Never have I done that in my life and not about to start now. I am a reputable seller and I can promise you my communication and the entire transaction will be perfect. If you want that plus a great deal then buy from me. If you don't, then you don't.
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I'll preface my response with a simple question: would anyone here send stacks of $100 bills to someone just because they can post pictures of a cue on the internet? If so, there are a lot of people on facebook that would like to meet you. And, if the seller does actually own the cue, they may have "forgot" about a few problems that the cue has, like warped or non-original shafts? So, you send the seller stacks of $100 bills via PayPal F&F, and you wait nervously for a tracking number, which may or may not come. And, if you are lucky and the cue does eventually arrive, and the delivery service hasn't damaged it, it may not be as described--with no recourse. Me. NO. Hell NO.

Does any brick and mortar business operate like that? Does any brick and mortar business show you pictures of an item, then ask for cash payment, then you go home and wait for a tracking number? No! You get to see the item and handle it, and decide if you like it---BEFORE PAYING. And, if you have buyer's remorse, you can return the item. Hey! Credit cards! If you use a credit card, the seller will let you take the item home without actually paying for it. And, lookie here! On the back of my credit card bill it states that If I am "dissatisfied" with a purchase, I can return it, and if the seller won't take it back, then I don't have to pay for it. Guess how "dissatisfied" is defined? If I have buyer's remorse or I don't think the product works the way I thought it would, or I don't like the way if looks for ANY reason, then I am "dissatisfied", and that is enough.

I often buy items from merchants online who will let me return items within 1 year of the purchase date. For some merchants, I used to be able to return an item for life--no questions asked. I still own items that I can return any time before I die.

If you don't want to accept PP Goods&Services, there are escrow services on this forum, FAST_N_LOOSE ($30) and ideologist ($0), that you can use. You also have to factor in double the shipping costs:

1) Shipping to the escrow.
2) Shipping from the escrow to the buyer, or from the escrow back to the seller.

There's also the risk that the escrow could keep both the cue and the money and never be heard from again. :oops:
 
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