Practice Halfball Shots Using Fractional Aiming With a Road Map

[Wolven]

Do you ever miss? Are you a top pro player? I guess you aren't a pool instructor. How would you transfer this to someone else?

Everybody misses.

I'm saying it is impossible for most players to see an 1/8 of an inch, especially if they are new. The simplest method is the ghost ball, doesn't need to be true just an approximate.

Most beginners and intermediate players cannot grasp the roundness of the balls. The entire thing is subconscious process. You hit the ball, see outcome and adjust.
With time all shots are stored, others extrapolated from those.

As for what I see last, whatever I already aligned my body to when I was standing. It is not a contact point, it's a 'point' (more of an area), that will give me desired contact between balls. I don't need the stick to aim either, definitely not on simpler shots.

Its a line between my body, both hands, eye stick and another line ob to pocket. Those are the only two variables.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Everybody misses.

Doesn't sound like it previously.

I'm saying it is impossible for most players to see an 1/8 of an inch, especially if they are new.

Forget new. New doesn't know what end is up for anything.

The simplest method is the ghost ball, doesn't need to be true just an approximate.

And "approximates" can pocket balls as accurately as something more focused?

Most beginners and intermediate players cannot grasp the roundness of the balls. The entire thing is subconscious process.

What do they see, squares or oblong like eggs? It isn't subconscious for beginners and intermediate players. It's semi-conscious to unconscious.

You hit the ball, see outcome and adjust.
With time all shots are stored, others extrapolated from those.

Too many other factors involved that creep into the game that throw your entire theory off. Stance can change. Body angle can change. Head position and eyeline can change. Stroke can change. Grip pressure can change. Grip can change. Posture can change. Each one or any of those can affect what the eyes see.

You still haven't given any indication of what level you play at and the number of years at the game. What are we talking about here?

As for what I see last, whatever I already aligned my body to when I was standing. It is not a contact point, it's a 'point' (more of an area), that will give me desired contact between balls. I don't need the stick to aim either, definitely not on simpler shots.

Accuracy in making balls requires a lot of precision in many different facets. "Areas" don't cut it. Too broad.

 

[Wolven]

Doesn't sound like it previously.

Forget new. New doesn't know what end is up for anything.

And "approximates" can pocket balls as accurately as something more focused?

What do they see, squares or oblong like eggs? It isn't subconscious for beginners and intermediate players. It's semi-conscious to unconscious.

Too many other factors involved that creep into the game that throw your entire theory off. Stance can change. Body angle can change. Head position and eyeline can change. Stroke can change. Grip pressure can change. Grip can change. Posture can change. Each one or any of those can affect what the eyes see.

You still haven't given any indication of what level you play at and the number of years at the game. What are we talking about here?

Accuracy in making balls requires a lot of precision in many different facets. "Areas" don't cut it. Too broad.

You asked what people do, I answered. I'm not trying to sell you something.
Bridge, grip, stick, vision center that is one unit, a triangle, on a plane.

I have played nonstop for 5 years but hit balls prior to that, then took a decade off, getting back into it. My current speed I'm told is low 600. I get a lot of you used to be good. Either, way I can still put together occasional multi racks under pressure 9 or 8 ball, with huge up and down yoyoyo. Always a threat to runout from anywhere, or suck for 20 minutes.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

You asked what people do, I answered. I'm not trying to sell you something.

Nor am I trying to sell you or anyone something.

Bridge, grip, stick, vision center that is one unit, a triangle, on a plane.

I have played nonstop for 5 years but hit balls prior to that, then took a decade off, getting back into it. My current speed I'm told is low 600. I get a lot of you used to be good. Either, way I can still put together occasional multi racks under pressure 9 or 8 ball, with huge up and down yoyoyo.

I've been playing for 30 years which is being a short timer compared to many. That doesn't always mean much. I know guys who have played 2 years times 30 for a total of 60 years at the game. Which means after 2 years they stopped learning and took their level to be as good as it's going to get or what they're happy with and kept doing it over 28 more years.

Always a threat to runout from anywhere, or suck for 20 minutes.

What that says is there is definitely a weak area that you haven't addressed or maybe just happy to be where you are and it doesn't much matter one way or the other.

Have you ever taken lessons from a professional instructor?

 

[BC21]

The mind's eye tells the real eyes what to see at the end. What are the real eyes seeing? Ray Charles had a "mind's eye" but didn't need his real eyes to play the piano. That was done by FEEL in his fingers like typing on the keyboard.
Word out is that Ray Charles couldn't play pool for shit using his mind's eye. Do you wonder why?

Lol....You're probably right about Ray not being able to play pool. But his mind's eye controlled more than just his fingers. Playing the piano requires moving not only your fingers, but also your hands and arms into different positions all over the keyboard.

I know you don't like the word, but that's proprioception in action at its best. The same type of body-mind communication happens when we're doing any skill that requires hand-eye coordination. Of course it's much easier to perform well if we can use our vision.

Obviously, a blind person will not do well performing skills that require input from the eyes. But their mind's eye could very well be sharper than that of a non-blind person, because in order to survive, their proprioception (the sense or feeling of where and how their body parts are positioned) has to be stronger than that of a non-blind person.

 

[BC21]

Hi Brian,

I think Poology is a super interesting system, and not that it matters - but its also definitely the coolest name of any of the aiming systems!
...

Good post.

But the main point of the thread is to show how easy it can be for a player to use known halfball shots for practice (using the Poolology diagram posted).

With a 100% known aim line (no guesswork) the player can focus on their PSR, stance and cue delivery.

By eliminating any aiming issues, we can narrow in on alignment and stroke issues. The same can be done with straight in shots, but shooting halfball shots has the added benefit of training the mind to recognize halfball relationships all over the table.

 

[BC21]

And I have to keep going back to my original question(s). What visual tool or picture is telling the eyes/brain to line up anything?

We who use any of Hal Houle's systems can verbalize exactly what we're seeing whether it's CTE or Shiskabob. They are 100%
visual methods. The success of them is based on seeing exactly what needs to be seen for a given cut or cut angles. If the visuals are off, so is the shot. Also called a miss. AND WE GET BLISTERED FOR IT OVER 25 YEARS BY HACK PLAYERS THAT CLAIM A BALL CAN'T GO IN IF SEEN THAT WAY!

Visual tool? Lol uh.....my eyes.

You look at a shot and automatically think, "15 inside", or "30 inside", or whatever. That knowledge is based on your visual experience - the fact that you've done it enough times to automatically know it when you see it.

It's no different with me. No mystery. I look at a shot with my eyes, just like you but from a slightly different perspective. Based on my visual experience, what I see automatically tells me to aim HERE, or THERE, referencing center cb and a point on or near the ob itself. The here or there might be half a tip from straight in, or a quarter tip thicker than a halfball aim.

My visual tools are the same as yours - eyes and experience. We just look at different things. No biggie to me. I don't care what you look at. If it works for you, then I'm cool with it.

 

[BC21]

Everybody misses.

I'm saying it is impossible for most players to see an 1/8 of an inch, especially if they are new. The simplest method is the ghost ball, doesn't need to be true just an approximate.

Most beginners and intermediate players cannot grasp the roundness of the balls. The entire thing is subconscious process. You hit the ball, see outcome and adjust.
With time all shots are stored, others extrapolated from those.

As for what I see last, whatever I already aligned my body to when I was standing. It is not a contact point, it's a 'point' (more of an area), that will give me desired contact between balls. I don't need the stick to aim either, definitely not on simpler shots.

Its a line between my body, both hands, eye stick and another line ob to pocket. Those are the only two variables.

When referring to 1/8's, it is not inches. It is 1/8 of the width/diameter of the object ball. That's not difficult to do.

Looking at a ball we can easily determine what looks like the center, the middle of the diameter. We can see the left and right edges. We can estimate the halfway point between the ball's center and its left and right edges. Those are 1/4 references.

Equally spaced in-between each of the 1/4's are the 1/8's. Visually, for most players, it's certainly not impossible to accurately pinpoint these references. It's basic visual spatial skills.

I agree 100% that eventually the mind stores known shots, making it possible for us to just know the shot when it comes up. But there are more efficient ways than trial and error to building that data base of known shots.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Lol....You're probably right about Ray not being able to play pool. But his mind's eye controlled more than just his fingers. Playing the piano requires moving not only your fingers, but also your hands and arms into different positions all over the keyboard.

I know you don't like the word, but that's proprioception in action at its best. The same type of body-mind communication happens when we're doing any skill that requires hand-eye coordination. Of course it's much easier to perform well if we can use our vision.

Obviously, a blind person will not do well performing skills that require input from the eyes. But their mind's eye could very well be sharper than that of a non-blind person, because in order to survive, their proprioception (the sense or feeling of where and how their body parts are positioned) has to be stronger than that of a non-blind person.

I'm not going to disagree with what you said above. But POOL requires VISION and I'm talking about GOOD VISION. I've heard a number of older players, GREAT PLAYERS who were/are pros, say that their EYES just aren't as sharp as they used to be when they were younger which is one of the reasons it's not the same.

 

[BC21]

I'm not going to disagree with what you said above. But POOL requires VISION and I'm talking about GOOD VISION. I've heard a number of older players, GREAT PLAYERS who were/are pros, say that their EYES just aren't as sharp as they used to be when they were younger which is one of the reasons it's not the same.

Yeah, I know a few of those myself. And it sucks thinking that it'll be us someday. Makes me wanna take up bowling.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Visual tool? Lol uh.....my eyes.

You look at a shot and automatically think, "15 inside", or "30 inside", or whatever. That knowledge is based on your visual experience - the fact that you've done it enough times to automatically know it when you see it.

It's no different with me. No mystery. I look at a shot with my eyes, just like you but from a slightly different perspective. Based on my visual experience, what I see automatically tells me to aim HERE, or THERE, referencing center cb and a point on or near the ob itself. The here or there might be half a tip from straight in, or a quarter tip thicker than a halfball aim.

My visual tools are the same as yours - eyes and experience. We just look at different things. No biggie to me. I don't care what you look at. If it works for you, then I'm cool with it.

Visual tool? Lol uh.....my eyes.

You look at a shot and automatically think, "15 inside", or "30 inside", or whatever. That knowledge is based on your visual experience - the fact that you've done it enough times to automatically know it when you see it.

That by itself still doesn't get you to where you need to be. Yes, experience plays a role. It still requires pinpoint alignment of the CB edge and center to specific points on the OB. It's VISUAL and VISION that aligns it there.

It's no different with me. No mystery. I look at a shot with my eyes, just like you but from a slightly different perspective. Based on my visual experience, what I see automatically tells me to aim HERE, or THERE, referencing center cb and a point on or near the ob itself. The here or there might be half a tip from straight in, or a quarter tip thicker than a halfball aim.

The different perspective is like night and day to the way we do it because the entire method is different.

My visual tools are the same as yours - eyes and experience. We just look at different things. No biggie to me. I don't care what you look at. If it works for you, then I'm cool with it.

Thank you, old master Jedi. Do you think you can schedule a little fireside chat with about four or five other guys (I'm being nice to use that word) with your outlook and get it across to them?

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Yeah, I know a few of those myself. And it sucks thinking that it'll be us someday. Makes me wanna take up bowling.

That ball is heavy especially when you get older and weaker. I'm thinking DARTS. Maybe that's why you see a bunch of old farts
really getting into Chess.

 

[BC21]

That by itself still doesn't get you to where you need to be. Yes, experience plays a role. It still requires pinpoint alignment of the CB edge and center to specific points on the OB. It's VISUAL and VISION that aligns it there.

The different perspective is like night and day to the way we do it because the entire method is different.

Thank you, old master Jedi.

Aiming is knowing or seeing or figuring out where the cb needs to be in order to pocket the ob. That's it.

Aligning your body and stroke to what you've determined is the proper aim is not aiming.

The "pinpoint alignment" you mention can also be done using one visual reference line, either through ccb to a specific point on the ob or through a specific point on the cb to a specific point on the ob depending on the shot.

Using 2 lines or 3 lines does not mean that the result will be any more accurate than using 1 especially on shots between 0 and about 60 degrees. I use 1 line on these shots, one pinpoint alignment to pocket the ball.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Aiming is knowing or seeing or figuring out where the cb needs to be in order to pocket the ob. That's it.

So far so good.

Aligning your body and stroke to what you've determined is the proper aim is not aiming.

You said it in the first word. It's alignment and they need to have congruence with each other.

The "pinpoint alignment" you mention can also be done using one visual reference line, either through ccb to a specific point on the ob or through a specific point on the cb to a specific point on the ob depending on the shot.

It can and I've done it that way for more years than what I do now. However, it has changed.

Using 2 lines or 3 lines does not mean that the result will be any more accurate than using 1 especially on shots between 0 and about 60 degrees. I use 1 line on these shots, one pinpoint alignment to pocket the ball.

No, it doesn't but in the method/system we're using it's part of the entire process. Remember, I've done exactly what you're doing for a long time. The disagreements are all about others not knowing how to do what we're NOW doing themselves but postulating that it can't possibly work as claimed. We've put ourselves out there to accept the challenge...for pay to the winner.
No takers so far after all these years.

 

[BC21]

Spider or Cookie, here's a serious question: What visual perception would be used to shoot this shot? I'm assuming a 15-outside would be used intially, but then you'll have to leave that ccb solution to make the shot work. This is an example of using a single aim line to pocket the ball, and ccb is not used...

[Media]

I think I already know the answer.. We all use whatever tools and knowledge we have to pocket balls. So even though CTE users say they use CTE for every shot, there are some shots that require another tool, or a different tool. Just like when I use the ob contact point on certain shots (cut shots where the cb is within 3 or 4 inches from the ob) instead of using a fractional aim point. I use all the tools I've learned over years. And sometimes I just don't have the right tool, or I have the right tool but fail to use it as well as I typically do - lack of focus.

 

[Wolven]

Nor am I trying to sell you or anyone something.

I've been playing for 30 years which is being a short timer compared to many. That doesn't always mean much. I know guys who have played 2 years times 30 for a total of 60 years at the game. Which means after 2 years they stopped learning and took their level to be as good as it's going to get or what they're happy with and kept doing it over 28 more years.

What that says is there is definitely a weak area that you haven't addressed or maybe just happy to be where you are and it doesn't much matter one way or the other.

Have you ever taken lessons from a professional instructor?

I need more practice time at the table.
It is coming back.

I have taken a few lessons in the past from couple semi- pros. They could not truly analyze my stroke, but shared a lot of great knowledge.

I have seen some lectures from BCA instructors and let's just say zero chance we would be compatible.

But, there were other instructional videos that had influence.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

T

Spider or Cookie, here's a serious question: What visual perception would be used to shoot this shot? I'm assuming a 15-outside would be used intially, but then you'll have to leave that ccb solution to make the shot work. This is an example of using a single aim line to pocket the ball, and ccb is not used...

I can't speak for Cookie, Stan, or anyone else who uses CTE, but on a shot like this I'd use Shiskabob.

Spider or Cookie, here's a serious question: What visual perception would be used to shoot this shot? I'm assuming a 15-outside would be used intially, but then you'll have to leave that ccb solution to make the shot work.

You assume wrong because I wouldn't be using a 15-outside or CTE. I can't speak for Cookie, Stan, or anyone else who uses CTE but for shots like this I'd be using Shishkabob. CB to OB would be center to center. Inside edge of tip/ferrule at CCB aimed at COB. Pivot the center of the tip over to CCB and take the shot. Nothing could be simpler. Another Hal Houle creation.

This is an example of using a single aim line to pocket the ball, and ccb is not used...

[Media]

I think I already know the answer.. We all use whatever tools and knowledge we have to pocket balls. So even though CTE users say they use CTE for every shot, there are some shots that require another tool, or a different tool.

I don't think I've ever said that but could be wrong. I can tell you for a fact that Shiskabob is a part of the arsenal.

Just like when I use the ob contact point on certain shots (cut shots where the cb is within 3 or 4 inches from the ob) instead of using a fractional aim point. I use all the tools I've learned over years. And sometimes I just don't have the right tool, or I have the right tool but fail to use it as well as I typically do - lack of focus.

I can say with confidence and honesty that there is NOTHING ELSE I currently use beside CTE and Shiskabob.
With Shiskabob the alignment is CCB to COB and pivot...CCB to 1/4 and pivot...or CCB to Edge and pivot. But most of it is CTE
except for the scenario you brought up as well as a few others.

That having been said, Shiskabob can also make every single shot on the table. The main aspect being that you have to learn what to aim on the ferrule/tip and where, how much to pivot, and learning that stroking with an ANGLED cue is a GOOD thing.
Not bad.

Google: Houle's Shishkabob visual version on youtube
Stan is NOT against it since HE does the video.

 

[BC21]

....
I can say with confidence and honesty that there is NOTHING ELSE I currently use beside CTE and Shiskabob.
With Shiskabob the alignment is CCB to COB and pivot...CCB to 1/4 and pivot...or CCB to Edge and pivot. But most of it is CTE
except for the scenario you brought up as well as a few others.

Thanks. And I sure wouldn't expect you to change anything you're doing, since it all works well for you. But here's a thought...

Everytime you use Shiskabob or CTE and end up with a shot solution, meaning you end up aligned for the shot in a manner that will pocket the ob, or should pocket the ob if done correctly/accurately, do you ever focus or pay attention to where that aim line (solution) is pointing in relation to the ob? I understand if you don't, seeing that ccb is your target, not some point on or near the ob. So it's no biggie. But here's my thought....

Once you're aligned and down on the shot and addressing the cb, if you were to pay attention to exactly where that solution/aim line leads in reference to the ob, you give your mind some additional visual information for that shot. If you were to do this for every shot everytime you play, focusing on where that final solution is leading to on the ob end of the shot, your mind would automatically begin to recognize shots as soon as you see the cb-ob relationship in front of you, before you even begin to think about which CTE perception or Shiskabob reference to use.

I'm not suggesting you do this. I'm just describing how the mind uses every visual input we give it to program the body so that it automatically responds to what we see.

 

[sixpack]

Hi Brian,

I think Poology is a super interesting system, and not that it matters - but its also definitely the coolest name of any of the aiming systems!

I'm one who has played with it (I have original rev of your book, 2014) and while it's fascinating to see how you have mapped out a relatively simple pool/diamond math system for fractional aiming, I'm one who still finds it overly complex. Obviously the math itself is 1st grade level arithmetic, but what I found hard to keep straight was the differences in how OB position values are used among the 3 different A/B/C table zones. This is also not overly complicated per se - just requires memorization and lots of practice.

... content deleted to fit under maximum post guidelines ...

Peace & love

We have gone through remarkably similar journeys. I wish I still lived in the Bay Area it would be fun to share insights.

One thing I would add to all this is that slightly off-center straight shots are tough with any aiming system. Except I've found that if I do an inside pivot (I Think, start on pocket side and go to center CB) starting from the edge of the cue stick aimed at the OB contact point they go in like magic.

Unbelievable how well it works - for me.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Thanks. And I sure wouldn't expect you to change anything you're doing, since it all works well for you. But here's a thought...

Everytime you use Shiskabob or CTE and end up with a shot solution, meaning you end up aligned for the shot in a manner that will pocket the ob, or should pocket the ob if done correctly/accurately, do you ever focus or pay attention to where that aim line (solution) is pointing in relation to the ob? I understand if you don't, seeing that ccb is your target, not some point on or near the ob. So it's no biggie. But here's my thought....

Once you're aligned and down on the shot and addressing the cb, if you were to pay attention to exactly where that solution/aim line leads in reference to the ob, you give your mind some additional visual information for that shot. If you were to do this for every shot everytime you play, focusing on where that final solution is leading to on the ob end of the shot, your mind would automatically begin to recognize shots as soon as you see the cb-ob relationship in front of you, before you even begin to think about which CTE perception or Shiskabob reference to use.

I see where you're going with this, but it doesn't quite work out that way because you're seeing it from a perfectly straight cue to that point and your nose right over the cue. We're seeing it from a different position with the eyes and head offset and then coming into it with an angled cue or offset and then pivoting to angled. (but not always or often needed except for Shishkabob)

I'm not suggesting you do this. I'm just describing how the mind uses every visual input we give it to program the body so that it automatically responds to what we see.

Your brain is too locked into the straight lines and geometry. Mine doesn't see things that way any longer especially when there's a pivot involved. Remember, I know what you're doing and what you see because I've been there. You continue to operate from an "inside the lines" math way of doing it. What we do is so outside the box, it doesn't even make sense to you which precludes getting any deeper involved. It's automatically "F**K THAT! It can't possibly work."

I know you've taken a deep interest in how the brain works. But you should probably dig deeper into how it works with a
different way of THINKING. It's called LATERAL THINKING.
GOOGLE - LATERAL THINKING

Hal Houle was without a doubt the greatest LATERAL THINKER in history when it came to POOL AIMING SYSTEMS! He developed over 20 aiming systems for pool and each one was way OUTSIDE THE BOX VISUALLY and in PERFORMANCE.

None of them were related to math and geometry. Just very different ways of seeing the two balls, CB and OB interacting with each other from a variety of perspectives as well as cue tip placements and pivots.