Wrong Ball

jokrswylde said:
I see it differently. Shane has obligations and financial responsibilities. I don't know how much he ended up making himself by winning that one match, but IMO, you have to think about those things. It was not a moral decision. They are professionals. Could you imagine a football coach running on across the field and telling his opponent that they are lined up offsides and to fix it before they got a penalty?
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If it were purely a financial decision, he would have told his opponent he was playing the wrong ball rather than jumping out of his seat before the shot was finished or even played. The blow up on social media and even TV (this is Matchroom) would have been mental with the greatest player of modern times displaying great sportsmanship towards a 17 year old whippersnapper.

It was a win at all costs decision. SVB even said that himself afterwards. He missed an opportunity to leave a mark on the game. I have nothing against Shane in general or in this instance - he played by the rules and played to win. Most pros (but by no means all) would have done the same thing. Whether you or I or the fencepost would or wouldn't have reacted the same way is neither here nor there - this wasn't bad sportsmanship per se, but the opposite is good sportsmanship.
 
As far as I know, when you are "in the chair", (which SVB was), you are not to make any sounds; which would include speech directed at your opponent on the table (as TATE was); so not sure why this 'Everyone Gets A Trophy" opinion about 'Sportsmanship' even exists in some minds.

"Dems Da Rulz, kid." - GJ
 
GentlemanJames said:
As far as I know, when you are "in the chair", (which SVB was), you are not to make any sounds; which would include speech directed at your opponent on the table (as TATE was); so not sure why this 'Everyone Gets A Trophy" opinion about 'Sportsmanship' even exists in some minds.

"Dems Da Rulz, kid." - GJ
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He was getting up out of his chair as the shot was being played. That's a sound in my book.
 
Swighey said:
It was a win at all costs decision. SVB even said that himself afterwards. He missed an opportunity to leave a mark on the game. I have nothing against Shane in general or in this instance - he played by the rules and played to win. Most pros (but by no means all) would have done the same thing. Whether you or I or the fencepost would or wouldn't have reacted the same way is neither here nor there - this wasn't bad sportsmanship per se, but the opposite is good sportsmanship.
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2012 Derby City Banks finals. Shane vs John Morra.

Shane called a 4-rail bank, made it going 2 rails instead, and tried to take the win.

John got the Ref involved.

Billiards Digest did a half-hearted write-up of the way it went down.
 
Swighey said:
Correct. But the opponent is, and can.
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No, the opponent isn’t involved either. Unless he wants to make himself involved. But in the purest sense he’s not involved. When it’s his inning then he’s involved.

Sure it’s possible to speak up and in some cases a player might mention to his opponent that he’s shooting the wrong ball. But that’s very very unlikely in a big tourney, when you’re losing or playing a bad match. All of which were happening here.

But that’s optional and certainly not the best move when you’re there to win.

Best
Fatboy
 
penguin said:
2012 Derby City Banks finals. Shane vs John Morra.

Shane called a 4-rail bank, made it going 2 rails instead, and tried to take the win.

John got the Ref involved.

Billiards Digest did a half-hearted write-up of the way it went down.
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As he should have. The ref after the fact has a tough job in that spot. The rail has nothing to do with it tho. It’s up to SVB in that case to make it very clear to Morra what his intended shot was and get an affirmation from him. Also for Morra to tell Shane he understands the shot. That communication is key between the players.

Kinda like being on 2 fouls. If a player can’t manage his own game it’s on him. If a player tries to sneak one past another player(as above)-not cool. But all can be avoided with proper management by one player. The ref is on a tight spot in this example and can’t ask the rail. Go to the tape these days I suppose is best that could be done
 
Fatboy said:
No, the opponent isn’t involved either. Unless he wants to make himself involved. But in the purest sense he’s not involved. When it’s his inning then he’s involved.

Sure it’s possible to speak up and in some cases a player might mention to his opponent that he’s shooting the wrong ball. But that’s very very unlikely in a big tourney, when you’re losing or playing a bad match. All of which were happening here.

But that’s optional and certainly not the best move when you’re there to win.

Best
Fatboy
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No but yes 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
ChrisinNC said:
Understood, but I’m still curious what the ruling would have been if he had stopped shooting at that moment and realized his error? Ball-in-hand for opponent, a warning or ejection to the spectator in question, a warning to the player or all of the above?

If he had stopped shooting at the moment the spectator had warned him, he could just simply claim to the referee that he was feeling out / preparing where he needed to get shape to for his next shot.
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A player cannot be held responsible for a spectator’s actions…. but that spectator must be
ejected.
 
penguin said:
Yes. Go to the tape. :oops:

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Nothing wrong with that. SVB called it. JA didn’t like it but that was the agreed upon rules.

The wrong ball is totally different. That was a before the shot foul, not a during the shot foul.

Shane spoke AFTER the shot. He didn’t call JA off the shot for the foul.

2 different things, SVB correct both times

Next…..
 
Also calling a foul on yourself on a double hit or all balls foul and you know you fouled is correct as well. I’d never not call a foul on myself.

Again the rail isn’t involved
 
Fatboy said:
Nothing wrong with that. SVB called it. JA didn’t like it but that was the agreed upon rules.
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Someone correct me if otherwise, but in Turning Stone, if a player calls a foul without a Ref present the call goes to the shooter
 
penguin said:
Yes. Go to the tape. :oops:

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The 7 was merely touched by his sleeve. It did not move (I don't think) So, if he had worn a short-sleeved shirt, it would have been 6-5 instead of 7-4.

Don't grow a mountain-man beard. Don't have hair that goes past your shoulders, or if you do, tie it up. Don't wear loose clothing.

Yes, I understand the rules but jeez, that's ticky-tack; I don't have to like it, though.
 
It sure seems like the group of people criticizing SVB over this is made up of people who generally didn't like him to begin with or are looking for any excuse to flame him.... And hey, you're welcome to not like the guy or "lose all respect for him" or whatever it is you want to do but you are 100% wrong for believing there is justification to condemn SVB over what happened. Just because telling him would have been a great gesture of sportsmanship doesn't mean not telling him is one of bad sportsmanship.
 
dquarasr said:
The 7 was merely touched by his sleeve. It did not move (I don't think) So, if he had worn a short-sleeved shirt, it would have been 6-5 instead of 7-4.

Don't grow a mountain-man beard. Don't have hair that goes past your shoulders, or if you do, tie it up. Don't wear loose clothing.

Yes, I understand the rules but jeez, that's ticky-tack; I don't have to like it, though.
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Nit rule I agree 100%
 
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